Warrior
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cant go shield sword spear = garbage in the current meta
the shield is too small combined with the trash armor you take double the amount of feet dmg heavy inf does
If you poke an enemy, he will get a free hit and you are close to death. It would be playable if it costs 50g and then most likely only because you can pick up a lance and a horse from the enemy.
the shield is too small combined with the trash armor you take double the amount of feet dmg heavy inf does
If you poke an enemy, he will get a free hit and you are close to death. It would be playable if it costs 50g and then most likely only because you can pick up a lance and a horse from the enemy.
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Just take improved armor and two handed axe bro, the class is basically a cheap Berserker.
without anything against cav (throwing axes),an axe that does 1/3 of the berserkers dmg and too slow to gapclose against archers fast enough ... but ye cheap berserker
the unit is ****, if you engage in melee 1 random ass arrow and your already dead
EDIT: after changes, would still give the unit the small shield by default and let them be able to upgrade to a bigger shield.
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With the impending price hike for Cavalry units, I think it might be worth it to suggest some balance changes for the Warrior, as futile as it may be due to my ideas conflicting with TaleWorlds' vision for Bannerlord multiplayer.
New Base Weapon: Old Horseman's Kite Shield
Allows the Warrior to have some semblance of protection against arrows, though it's still the absolute worst shield you can have. The Small Shield perk is now renamed to Round Shield and acts as a replacement for the base shield
Northern Short Spear replaced with a new spear. I think the ideal stats would be for it to deal less damage and also be slower than the current spear, but have about 185 reach, which I think is the minimum required for a footman to competently stab horses
I'll probably get around to making a similar post on the Hunter thread.
New Base Weapon: Old Horseman's Kite Shield
Allows the Warrior to have some semblance of protection against arrows, though it's still the absolute worst shield you can have. The Small Shield perk is now renamed to Round Shield and acts as a replacement for the base shield
Northern Short Spear replaced with a new spear. I think the ideal stats would be for it to deal less damage and also be slower than the current spear, but have about 185 reach, which I think is the minimum required for a footman to competently stab horses
I'll probably get around to making a similar post on the Hunter thread.
Please give them access to Pike + Improved armor perk combo. Literally none of the classes on sturgia are interesting, at the very least give them a anti cav one.
Brigand with Ash Throwing Spear (185 reach) or the Varyag with Long Spear (190-something) are their anti-cav options. See my above post for a suggestion on how the Warrior could be less terrible.
Bumping this thread because the worst peasant unit in the game has lost his saving grave (2 handed axe) and TaleWorlds doesn't seem to realize that 174 reach isn't enough to stab a horse. Or maybe they do realize and actually intend for Sturgia to remain in the garbage bin.
[CAPTAIN MODE FOCUS]
This guy needs some love.
100 hp, 15 armor, 79 move, 19 troops.
Sturgia's concept is a low troop count faction with slightly above average individual fighters.
The poor Sturgian Warrior has almost nothing going for him, except his cool hat.
The Sturgian warrior has lowest troop count of any Light Infantry in captain. Rabbles outnumber him by 6 troops, with most outnumbering him by 2-4.
The Sturgian Warrior is the slowest moving Light Infantry, tied with Tribals (who can take a faster move perk).
With all these terrible stats, you'd expect him to have the best gear to compensate, but he doesn't.
He has no blunt weapons, cannot take a spear and a shield, and has a very short-range axe with extremely low damage if you take improved armor.
His shield is actually too small to be effective against arrow fire and is effectively a melee-only shield, meaning he can't participate in Shieldwalls for any period of time.
His spear is also one of the shortest options, with any other faction's Lt Inf using a Pike if they go shieldless.
He shares a 15 high armor with the Clan Warior (only 1 less on Tribal Warriors), but not enough to make your death cost another hit.
This mostly leaves him with his slightly-above-average Improved Axe option. The problem is that this is specialized vs. unarmored enemies, who will always have more troops than him. The damage output is not high enough to make up for this differential, and he mostly lose to any other light infantry in a straight fight with similar weapons because of the lower troop count. On top of that, every other Sturgian unit is actually better at that job than the Warrior is, as every Sturgian is specced for dealing with lightly armored enemies.
Warriors have just a few more bodies than Varyags, and Brigands are much faster with almost as many troops, and can take a spear + shield with throwing weapons.
Varyags have some of the best equipment and combat perks in the game, and are actually faster than Warriors.
Contrast this with the Tribal Warrior, with a very high troop count, only 1 less armor, cutting weapons (including the high-tier Kaskara), blunt weapons, a massive shield, and the ability to take Spear + Shield, and can be faster. Tribal warriors can occupy many roles, anti-archer, anti-heavy, or anti cavalry. Warriors cannot hope to defeat Tribals in a straight fight due to the large troop count differential, and due to the Tribal's comparable equipment.
100 hp, 14(23) armor, 79 move, 23 troops.
Against Recruits, the spatha is actually slightly superior to even the Warrior's upgraded weapons, he can get a spear + shield, and he is super fast with throwing weapons. And Recruits have more troops.
100, 10 armor, 83 move, 20 troops
Contrast with Clan Warrior, who has the same armor, also has a small shield, but can equip blunt weapons, a better axe, or a pike as well. Clan warriors also have 3 more troops and are much faster.
-100 hp, 15 armor, 82 move, 22 troops.
Rabble almost untouchable by Warriors every time, with their massive troop count, much better weapon selection with blunt and improved armor or a very long cutting weapon, or pikes, and better move speed.
Peasants outnumber the Warriors massively. Depending on Peasants loadout, Warriors can beat them sometimes with Sword + Shield or the improved axe (due to peasants extremely low damage output), but peasants are much faster and much more flexible with blunt and pike options.
100hp, 5 armor, 82 move, 23 troops
Basically, 1 Higher Armor and 2 more damage is the biggest boast a Warrior can make, and he has several of the worst possible qualities with very little flexibility in weapons.
What Could We Do:
-Warriors could be at least as fast as Varyags. That's just silly. If they were faster, they could assist Varyags by running down archers.
-Warriors could use 1 more body, which I think still leaves them with the lowest possible troop count of Light Infantry. This puts them on a more even playing field with other light infantry, and allowing their specialization in cutting weapons to make a difference.
-We could give them back a 2-handed axe, which was interesting and flavorful, but make it more like the 2h Axe that Rangers equip. (Everyone always understood their previous 2h axe was overpowered and actually made Berserkers kind of obsolete). Also do not let a "Improved Armor + 2h Axe" build exist as it did previously, as that is what we all obviously picked every time. You should be forced to trade out for damage.
-Give them the option to equip Spear and Shield. This gives them a job to do as point-defenders and archer support, or lets them fill out a shieldwall while your Varyags spec for damage.
-Give him a single light throwing axe. This one is a little off the wall, but at least helps to cement his role as anti-Light Infantry and would level the playing field with other, more numerous light infs. Would help to shore up a Sturgian identity as "Those baltic/viking/Rus guys that throw axes at you".
-Make their Spear a Throwing Spear instead. This makes selecting the perk less of a gamble in Captain, if your opponent doesn't take cavalry you haven't completely wasted the perk slot and can at least do ~20 damage to the 4 guys you actually manage to hit from a distance.
This guy needs some love.
100 hp, 15 armor, 79 move, 19 troops.
Sturgia's concept is a low troop count faction with slightly above average individual fighters.
The poor Sturgian Warrior has almost nothing going for him, except his cool hat.
The Sturgian warrior has lowest troop count of any Light Infantry in captain. Rabbles outnumber him by 6 troops, with most outnumbering him by 2-4.
The Sturgian Warrior is the slowest moving Light Infantry, tied with Tribals (who can take a faster move perk).
With all these terrible stats, you'd expect him to have the best gear to compensate, but he doesn't.
He has no blunt weapons, cannot take a spear and a shield, and has a very short-range axe with extremely low damage if you take improved armor.
His shield is actually too small to be effective against arrow fire and is effectively a melee-only shield, meaning he can't participate in Shieldwalls for any period of time.
His spear is also one of the shortest options, with any other faction's Lt Inf using a Pike if they go shieldless.
He shares a 15 high armor with the Clan Warior (only 1 less on Tribal Warriors), but not enough to make your death cost another hit.
This mostly leaves him with his slightly-above-average Improved Axe option. The problem is that this is specialized vs. unarmored enemies, who will always have more troops than him. The damage output is not high enough to make up for this differential, and he mostly lose to any other light infantry in a straight fight with similar weapons because of the lower troop count. On top of that, every other Sturgian unit is actually better at that job than the Warrior is, as every Sturgian is specced for dealing with lightly armored enemies.
Warriors have just a few more bodies than Varyags, and Brigands are much faster with almost as many troops, and can take a spear + shield with throwing weapons.
Varyags have some of the best equipment and combat perks in the game, and are actually faster than Warriors.
Contrast this with the Tribal Warrior, with a very high troop count, only 1 less armor, cutting weapons (including the high-tier Kaskara), blunt weapons, a massive shield, and the ability to take Spear + Shield, and can be faster. Tribal warriors can occupy many roles, anti-archer, anti-heavy, or anti cavalry. Warriors cannot hope to defeat Tribals in a straight fight due to the large troop count differential, and due to the Tribal's comparable equipment.
100 hp, 14(23) armor, 79 move, 23 troops.
Against Recruits, the spatha is actually slightly superior to even the Warrior's upgraded weapons, he can get a spear + shield, and he is super fast with throwing weapons. And Recruits have more troops.
100, 10 armor, 83 move, 20 troops
Contrast with Clan Warrior, who has the same armor, also has a small shield, but can equip blunt weapons, a better axe, or a pike as well. Clan warriors also have 3 more troops and are much faster.
-100 hp, 15 armor, 82 move, 22 troops.
Rabble almost untouchable by Warriors every time, with their massive troop count, much better weapon selection with blunt and improved armor or a very long cutting weapon, or pikes, and better move speed.
Peasants outnumber the Warriors massively. Depending on Peasants loadout, Warriors can beat them sometimes with Sword + Shield or the improved axe (due to peasants extremely low damage output), but peasants are much faster and much more flexible with blunt and pike options.
100hp, 5 armor, 82 move, 23 troops
Basically, 1 Higher Armor and 2 more damage is the biggest boast a Warrior can make, and he has several of the worst possible qualities with very little flexibility in weapons.
What Could We Do:
-Warriors could be at least as fast as Varyags. That's just silly. If they were faster, they could assist Varyags by running down archers.
-Warriors could use 1 more body, which I think still leaves them with the lowest possible troop count of Light Infantry. This puts them on a more even playing field with other light infantry, and allowing their specialization in cutting weapons to make a difference.
-We could give them back a 2-handed axe, which was interesting and flavorful, but make it more like the 2h Axe that Rangers equip. (Everyone always understood their previous 2h axe was overpowered and actually made Berserkers kind of obsolete). Also do not let a "Improved Armor + 2h Axe" build exist as it did previously, as that is what we all obviously picked every time. You should be forced to trade out for damage.
-Give them the option to equip Spear and Shield. This gives them a job to do as point-defenders and archer support, or lets them fill out a shieldwall while your Varyags spec for damage.
-Give him a single light throwing axe. This one is a little off the wall, but at least helps to cement his role as anti-Light Infantry and would level the playing field with other, more numerous light infs. Would help to shore up a Sturgian identity as "Those baltic/viking/Rus guys that throw axes at you".
-Make their Spear a Throwing Spear instead. This makes selecting the perk less of a gamble in Captain, if your opponent doesn't take cavalry you haven't completely wasted the perk slot and can at least do ~20 damage to the 4 guys you actually manage to hit from a distance.
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A problem with that: I think the shortcomings of Sturgia are intentional.
Even in Skirmish, the Warrior is kinda worthless considering his weapon options. I dunno how to feel about 2H axe returning to the peasant class, but here's what I think would be more ideal (assuming that TaleWorlds ever decides to scrap their intentional imbalancing)
Sturgian Short Spear replaced with Metal Pitchfork
Reason: 174 reach and a lack of shield is woefully inadequate for killing horsemen since even the shortest cavalry spears have 180 reach. The Pitchfork will still be shorter than most peasant spears/pikes but can at least compete against light cavalry with some amount of effort. Also provides a decently powerful stabbing polearm should the Warrior manage to steal a horse
Athletics skill replaced with Reinforcements (Captain) and Looter (other modes)
Reason: 5% extra movement speed will barely do anything at all when you compare it against the round shield and (admittedly terrible) short spear. Extra models/gold would be a much better incentive for a "have nothing" perk. I guess another option would be to give the Warrior a sling to see if that might help improve his overall performance if he neglects to take a shield or spear. As it currently stands, there's no reason to pick anything other than "Better Axe/Shield"
I don't disagree, Sturgia is for some reason statted poorly intentionally.
Don't get me wrong, I love and miss the pitchfork too (please put it back on Peasants), but I think it doesn't quite read for the "theme" of Warriors. I think they're meant to be semi-professional fighters, which makes them spawning without a shield by default all the more silly.
The image of mass Spear + Shield infantry supporting heavy Varyags in the center of a shieldwall seems like what Sturgia wants to be and is somewhat failing at. We have custom animations and Square/Shieldwall behavior for those round shields and only 1 unit in the game is guaranteed to have one? That's absurd.
They should really be held to the same standard as Clan Warriors & Tribal Warriors, both of which have the same armor and vastly better equipment options, and massively outnumber Warriors.
Athletics getting replaced with the Reinforcement/Looter combo is fantastic and very thematic for poor opportunistic raiders, I'd personally love to see that. It doesn't make a lot of sense for Rabble honestly, its bizarre it wasn't put on the Vikings automatically...
I love and miss slings (SO MUCH). I'd love to see it on Recruits and Wildlings if I had my way, but I'd take it any way I can get it.
If Taleworlds insists on keeping the Warrior's spear as short as it is, I wonder if it'd be worth it for them to make it swingable for 38 blunt damage (same damage as the Peasant Levy's Hammer). Granted, it'd probably have to be as slow as the Heavy Menavlion or Imperial Polearm to avoid it from being too OP
Never actually thought that we'd get Warrior buffs. Thank goodness for having a default shield cuz this actually frees up the perk choices of the second slot (Die hard was pretty much mandatory), and I dunno if it's just me but being able to one-hand the Short Spear actually seems to make a difference in the Warrior's ability to kill horses.
That said, I still question the usefulness of the Athletics skill, since a lousy +7% to movement speed is a terrible choice compared to a shield with better coverage or a one-handed spear. I think it might be worth it to experiment with different perk options, be it a sling and/or Captain Mode Reinforcements
That said, I still question the usefulness of the Athletics skill, since a lousy +7% to movement speed is a terrible choice compared to a shield with better coverage or a one-handed spear. I think it might be worth it to experiment with different perk options, be it a sling and/or Captain Mode Reinforcements
They are one of the worst 100 cost unit in the game, and they should be one of the best. Sturgia is struggling in every game mode, and it's non-ranged melee infantry that is worse than Aserai infantry. Strength of Sturgia should lie in strong infantry choices, but now they have two worst melee shield infantry, bad throwers, worst archers, worst light cavalry and worst heavy cavalry.
Care to explain how the Voi could be improved? Cuz the Raider Axe, Raider Sword, and Improved Armor perks are all decently solid. My biggest gripe is that the Spearman perk only gives you a lousy 174 reach spear. As i've mentioned in an earlier thread, the shortest cavalry spear clocks in at 194, so I think for horseback vs dismounted stabbing, the guy on foot's gonna need a 179 reach polearm at the absolute bare minimum.
I don't know, mayble give everyone 165 reach spear and make perk spear actually good? Up some base stats?