Warband' top player skill level in comparison to Dota2/CS/lol?

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What are your thoughts of the amount of skill a top player of Warband has, say Peter, in comparison to a top player in Dota or CS, (puppey, n0tail, olofmeister)
How would you say Peter's skill compares to those players, if they were to play the same game? I hope you understand what I mean. Whats the difference of skill between these top players… if you could somehow analyze the difference eventhough I'm comparing diferentes games, what would you think?
Let's start from the fact that the pro players are more skilled by default for obvious reasons. What interests me more is, how big is the skill gap between them and tops like Peter in your opinion.
 
There are little to no meta changes in Warband (as the game isn't updated/rebalanced regularly). I know this wasn't the case when competitive Warband first became popular, but there's no doubt that's not the case currently. As such top level Warband players don't have to constantly practise and learn new things. This is not the case for LoL players, for instance. New items and champions are released, champions are rebalanced, new jungle monsters etc. 

In the past 1 year, a top Warband player could return from 6+ months of activity and could still be at the very top (after about a week or so of warming up). Of course this is dependant on the class they play, as archer/xbowman has very few mechanics to it (point and shoot, in essence). So of course it would be easier for a player to re-learn ranger as opposed to cav and inf.

Being a pro LoL player requires significantly more dedication and commitment to learning. I guess the same could be said for CSGO players, but I haven't played/watched much of that so I could be wrong.
 
One way of comparing this is hours played per day. I know that I got about 2.5k hours in a year and a half when I played actively. This comes to 4.5 hours a day on average.

This is probably pretty high for the scene, but it will naturally vary from player to player and over different time periods.

I'd say that, at least at some point, there were a lot of players playing 4 or more hours per day. That number probably isn't as high as it was but I'd guess there are still 60+ players playing at least four a day on average.

Korean Starcraft 2 players, at the very very top would play for 10-11 hours at their peak, while the average Korean Starcraft 2 player would play for 7-8 hours, compared to the average non-Korean pro playing for 2-8, with an average of around 5 probably.

I'm guessing that the MOBAs are probably similar to SC2, with 6-8 probably being about normal, with higher hours for Chinese players but a more consistent number globally. That's speculation. What you have driving practice in MOBAs is the fact that you can't guarantee what hero you pick and therefore need to be prepared to play a number, with all kinds of items and combinations and matchups to remember and consider.

Not sure how many hours CS:GO players play. Some googling suggests top players are playing 8-10 hours but I suspect this is exaggeration, since like Warband, there isn't as much to rehearse and memorise as in other games and most of the training will go into staying in shape as a player, covering all the important essentials of the game's mechanics. However, I may be wrong, since as a team game, there is a lot to be gained from familiarisation with teammates and learning to coordinate with specific individuals.

Overall, I think there are just a smaller number of Warband players playing with the kind of dedication you need to compete in other games. Hours played would probably have to be multiplied by 1.5-2 in most cases and teams would need to do a better job of playing together.

If Warband was played at that level, I think what we'd see is probably similar to the highest level of play now but a lot more consistent. There would be a greater number of headshots as extra time dedicated would allow for shooting to be more reliable and accurate (think Menethil at his best but a bunch of players like him, in every team).

Cav teamwork has advanced loads in the past year and can see that being taken even further, really polishing the timing of knockdowns followed by couched lanced hits for cheap kills. Naturally bumplancing and bumpslashing would be hitting higher success rates resulting in more smashed keyboards...

It's hard to say what would happen to Infantry. I want to believe that two handers would have a role in some kind of insanely pushed meta but realistically, I think people are pretty much there with gear setups. Perhaps we'd see a little more of the craziness that players like BlackTide and Technoviking demonstrate in their style but somehow slightly better understood and refined, in a way that would enable other players to learn and emulate the style. Rest assured, there would be a lot more players throwing javs like Cristo.

In terms of tactics, I think there is a lot of room for improvement. I see teams set into approaches that simply don't work, leading to whitewash sets, even now and even at the top level. Teams need to be able to switch their class setups more frequently and I think by playing more, with more high level opponents, teams would grow comfortable with making these big decisions with confidence. This could actually lead to a requirement for more players at the top level to be better at multiclassing. Perhaps a competitive Mount & Blade scene would expect players to practice a minimum of two out of three classes, increasing the need for practice time.

In answer to "how big is the skill gap?", I'm not really sure how to quantify that beyond what I've posted about hours spent. My thinking is that to be one of the top players, you'd need to spent about 600-1000 hours of good quality practice in Warband (I've heard this disputed) and I'd pitch other games higher than this by around 2-3 times.
 
At some point during the time I was the most active, I peaked at around 90h / two weeks. That's 45h / week, which translates to a full time job in time (note: I was on quarantine due to sickness, hence why I had so much time :grin:). At that specific point in time, my skill also peaked because I got consistent in the way I played. There's not a single player in Warband to have had that amount of playingtime consistently since release! And even if a player had that much time, how much of it would be 'efficent' playing?

I know a few pros in SC2 and Dota 2, who said that even when they stream (and seemingly have fun or trolling), they still focus on something ('watch the minimap', 'micro/macro practice') or such - when I was in grandmasters in SC2 during WoL, I peaked at the 8h / day. And even then, with two years of active playing, trying to play against some of the minor, non-tournament winning pros proved to be practically impossible due to the actually enourmous skill-level difference.

If you threw in someone like Puppey in Dota 2, or Flash in SC2 and imagine the time and effort they've put into their games be in Warband, even the best would be a laughingstock and a bottleneck in a team by that regard. The skillgap would be several thousand of hours of efficent practice, talking about tactics and scrimming and ironing out every single mistake and maximizing teamplay, in addition to self-practice as well. Just by this significant difference, everyone is a bad joke at best.

If Bannerlord would start supporting more competititve play, perhaps inviting sponsors for a starting tournament (similiar to Dota 2) we could maybe one day see how good pros in Bannerlord would be compared to top public players :smile:
 
The reason Warband players don't put in 8-10 hours a day is because there's basically no reward for doing so. Unless of course you count a t-shirt as valid encouragement to practise 8 hours a day. Not to mention that SC2/LoL/CSGO players are being paid to do so (or at least trying to improve themselves so they can become a pro player).

If a new Warband team arose, and all of their players already had 1000 hours before moving into competitive Native, and they practise 7-10 hours a day then there's no doubt that they could challenge the top teams within 3-4 months.
 
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This is about three years after release. CS:GO is the orange bar... so we're seeing a lot of players floating around 3500-5000 which means 3-4.5 hours per day? Less than I'd expected to be honest... let's assume they have dupe accounts etc. but in any case, as I suspected I think 8-10 rumoured for CS:GO pros is a bit of an overstatement. 4-5 is probably very normal.
 
Level of competition will also always cap the best players in Warband. There are two, maybe three truly top teams at any one time and they can't just play each other all the time. So imagine if in Dota2 EG, CDEC, and Secret's only competition was a bunch of 3-4k teams - you'd inevitably see a stagnation of the top players and teams, although the skill level of the lower teams would slowly rise (and maybe even win sometimes). This is pretty similar to what you have now in Warband.

What you really need is just more skilled players and teams to create a more vibrant competitive scene. I don't even think money or other motivation is needed, the successful competitive communities of the big esports created that, not vice-versa (although it keeps it alive ofc).
 
They probably get 3-4 hours of hardcore practice with their teams per day, probably more in the week or two leading into a tournament, but then most of them play CS:GO for fun whilst streaming so you could probably say they're getting 5-6 hours of practice a day.
 
AnchorTheMean said:
The reason Warband players don't put in 8-10 hours a day is because there's basically no reward for doing so. Unless of course you count a t-shirt as valid encouragement to practise 8 hours a day. Not to mention that SC2/LoL/CSGO players are being paid to do so (or at least trying to improve themselves so they can become a pro player).
Most of the people who play Warband at the moment wouldn't spend more time to get better even if there was serious money reward. The reason why the people in this community stick to Warband is that it doesn't take much nolifing to actually achieve something.
It's not like "Warband players dont play 8 hours per day cuz no big money", actually it's "Warband players don't play 8 hours per day because they can't".
 
Oliveran said:
At some point during the time I was the most active, I peaked at around 90h / two weeks. That's 45h / week, which translates to a full time job in time (note: I was on quarantine due to sickness, hence why I had so much time :grin:). At that specific point in time, my skill also peaked because I got consistent in the way I played. There's not a single player in Warband to have had that amount of playingtime consistently since release! And even if a player had that much time, how much of it would be 'efficent' playing?

I was in CoR after 500 hours of warband. I joined AE at around 1000-1500 hours. At 2000-2500 I was arguably considered one of the best cavalry in the scene and by far the best Swedish player. SikiciOttoman for a fact played more than 90h so saying you're the most consistent without even backing it up is just an unnecessary claim lol
 
Let's not turn this into an e-peen thread pls.
Some interesting answers right there.
Captain Lust said:
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This is about three years after release. CS:GO is the orange bar... so we're seeing a lot of players floating around 3500-5000 which means 3-4.5 hours per day? Less than I'd expected to be honest... let's assume they have dupe accounts etc. but in any case, as I suspected I think 8-10 rumoured for CS:GO pros is a bit of an overstatement. 4-5 is probably very normal.

Actually we do have players with legit +4k hours invested such as Tobi iirc, subzer0, Grenade both hace around 6k. But these players still aren't as skilled as the guys in other games, right? . So we need to look at something else.
Imo, the two things that could influence the most are the amount of competition (vastly less than in those mainstream games) and the games own difficulty: is Warband an easier game than the others? An objective answer to that would be nice, but its difficulty to answer.
And how you use the hours counts a lot too.
 
Shemaforash said:
Oliveran said:
At some point during the time I was the most active, I peaked at around 90h / two weeks. That's 45h / week, which translates to a full time job in time (note: I was on quarantine due to sickness, hence why I had so much time :grin:). At that specific point in time, my skill also peaked because I got consistent in the way I played. There's not a single player in Warband to have had that amount of playingtime consistently since release! And even if a player had that much time, how much of it would be 'efficent' playing?

I was in CoR after 500 hours of warband. I joined AE at around 1000-1500 hours. At 2000-2500 I was arguably considered one of the best cavalry in the scene and by far the best Swedish player. SikiciOttoman for a fact played more than 90h so saying you're the most consistent without even backing it up is just an unnecessary claim lol

How do you know i played more than 90h/2weeks? If you do rely on steam stats.My pc was open 24/7 and most of times game was open also.
I admit i was playing more than 6H some day but not everyday.And that was untill summer 2011 (RN rip 2011 july).
You should talk about you and your clan also,how much time were you spending for being best clan/cavalry while most of strongest clan were inactives.
I joined RN after 100-150H btw.When we met eachother in game we had approximatively same amount of hours Shemaforash iirc.
This discuss is useless i know but i had to answer.
 
Shemaforash said:
Oliveran said:
At some point during the time I was the most active, I peaked at around 90h / two weeks. That's 45h / week, which translates to a full time job in time (note: I was on quarantine due to sickness, hence why I had so much time :grin:). At that specific point in time, my skill also peaked because I got consistent in the way I played. There's not a single player in Warband to have had that amount of playingtime consistently since release! And even if a player had that much time, how much of it would be 'efficent' playing?

I was in CoR after 500 hours of warband. I joined AE at around 1000-1500 hours. At 2000-2500 I was arguably considered one of the best cavalry in the scene and by far the best Swedish player. SikiciOttoman for a fact played more than 90h so saying you're the most consistent without even backing it up is just an unnecessary claim lol
Nice. Now it is my turn.
I was in PE after 700 hours of Warband (Native + mods + single player which is very interesting for me). I became PE leader at around 800-1000 hours. At 1500-2000 I was one of the worst inf player in the scene and the worst inf in Polish community. Dyktator or Trebron can confirm that. Who achieved more than me, hm ?
 
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