Warband 3d modeling help

[ARSAS]

I have questions regarding 3d modeling, I hope you can answer.

1. is BRF Edit the same as open BRF program ?

2. I'm having trouble in HighElf third tutorial regarding modeling, where I have to 3d model a helmet, after I get the head or face model in openBRF/BRF Edit & import the model to Wings3D, I am unable to select that area where there is a missing half of the face, the area where I am supposed to mirror the face so the face looks like a full complete face instead of only having half a face ? What do I do ?

I am unable to do the mirror method for the half face model to make it look like a full face

my problem in the tutorial is at 00:01:25, third modeling tutorial of HighElf, where I am unable to select that missing half portion of the face model

 

[NPC99]

I have questions regarding 3d modeling, I hope you can answer.

1. is BRF Edit the same as open BRF program ?

No. OpenBRF superseded BRF Edit. The Highelf videos are from 2007 before the arrival of OpenBRF in 2009.

2. I'm having trouble in HighElf third tutorial regarding modeling, where I have to 3d model a helmet, after I get the head or face model in openBRF/BRF Edit & import the model to Wings3D, I am unable to select that area where there is a missing half of the face, the area where I am supposed to mirror the face so the face looks like a full complete face instead of only having half a face ? What do I do ?

I am unable to do the mirror method for the half face model to make it look like a full face

my problem in the tutorial is at 00:01:25, third modeling tutorial of HighElf, where I am unable to select that missing half portion of the face model

1. Load meshes_face_gen.brf from Warband's CommmonRes folder into OpenBRF.
2. Right click male_head and select duplicate (creates copy_male_head).
3. Right click copy_male_head and select mirror.
4. Right click male_head and select duplicate (creates another unmirrored copy_male_head).
5. Highlight/select both versions of copy_male_head right click and select combine meshes (creates copy_male_head_combined).
6. Right click on copy_male_head_combined and select export static mesh (exports an obj file of the complete head for use in your 3D modelling program).

PS the reason we're using copy_male_head rather than male_head is so we don't mess up Warband's meshes_face_gen.brf if you save it by accident. I'd either save it with a different filename, if you want to keep it, or discard these changes and just use the obj file.

 

[ARSAS]

thank you for the reply,

so should I stop watching the modeling tutorials by HighElf ?

Is there a more latest modeling tutorial that I should follow ?

 

[NPC99]

Highelf’s tutorial is about 3D modelling in Wings3D - that’s still valid today. A lot of people use Blender now instead of Wings, but Blender’s interface is over complicated for first timers. Wings is still a good choice to learn the basics of 3D modelling.

BRF Edit was the best available intermediary program for getting models etc into the game’s brf format when Highelf made his video. Now OpenBRF makes that all much easier and adds lots of other features.

Keep watching the videos, but also learn to use OpenBRF beside whichever 3D modelling program works for you.
https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,72279.0.html

 

[ARSAS]

so after finishing HighElf's videos, I plan to use Blender not Wings 3D, will watching the remainder of the videos, will I know how to operate Blender after knowing how to operate Wings 3D ?

 

[NPC99]

Blender’s interface is very different. You will need to go through the Blender tutorial videos. However, these are not M&B specific whereas Highelf’s videos are.

https://www.blender.org/support/tutorials/

You could also watch some of John.M’s Kingdoms of Arda videos (sadly no commentaries) - Making of the Uruk-Hai Scouts: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRLP2hVzoSl1d7QechDGWLENPhgFS_gao

 

[Gothic Knight]

so after finishing HighElf's videos, I plan to use Blender not Wings 3D, will watching the remainder of the videos, will I know how to operate Blender after knowing how to operate Wings 3D ?

Nope. I suggest looking at some Blender tutorials after doing HighElf's videos. You should just stick to blender though. I use Wings and Blender(For high poly stuff) but  every time I go back to Blender I can not remember the hotkeys anymore. It'll be better just for you to use Blender exclusively.

 

[ARSAS]

Hi NPC99, I have a question, I followed your instructions regarding head model to put in Wings 3D, I have the full head model in Wings 3D, but when I select it or highlight it, these green spike things appear in the head & extruding out of the head, I saw HighElf's head there is nothing like that in his tutorial

Is there something wrong, what do I do ?

 

[NPC99]

The green spikes are highlighting normals in a flat shading view. Click on the first top right cube in wings 3D to switch between smooth shading (smooth surface over the underlying mesh created by its normals - no green spikes) and flat shading (shows underlying mesh with green spikes highlighting the presence of normals).

Before export from OpenBRF you could right click on your mesh, select discard and select normals from the pop-up menu, but you lose surface details.

PS Gothic Knight knows more about 3D modelling than I do.

 

[ARSAS]

thank you for the reply, so what do you suggest I do in Wings 3D ?

do I work with having green spikes or follow your instructions in not seeing green spikes ?

does it matter or is it nothing to be concerned about ?

 

[NPC99]

It’s nothing to be concerned about. I’d just select view (top menu bar) then show then untick show normals and forget about them - no more green spikes. If you ever change your mind, just reverse that and tick show normals.

 

[ARSAS]

out of curiosity how long will it take for me to 3d model adequately not pro, but also not midiocre/terrible, as I'm coming close to finishing High Elf's tutorials, I feel that finish watching all 4 of his tutorial videos will still not be enough to 3d model well enough to make my own 3d model mods for Warband ?

for some reason I'm feeling it will take more practice & following other 3d model tutorials other than just High Elf's tutorials ?

 

[NPC99]

How long? That depends on you. Watching is never enough. We all learn best by making mistakes. My focus is modding, not modelling. So, I tend to adapt/edit existing models or combine bits from different ones rather than creating new ones from scratch.

 

[ARSAS]

wait NPC99, what you just said is what I seek to do, manipulate things & combine them together instead of making my own creations, I want to combine things that have already been created, change them in some way or combine them in someway

will it be a long process until I am able to do what you just said ?

 

[NPC99]

Not long provided you limit your initial ambitions. Stick to easy stuff first while you learn the ropes.

Remember to respect the original creators. Only use native or OSP models, if you plan to publish your work, and credit those original creators.

First steps - learn to repurpose/recombine/retexture existing model components without any 3D modelling.
OpenBRF is the hub, which combines meshes, materials and textures. Learn how to use it. https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,173577.0.html
Remember mesh/model components are held seperately in a brf file so they can use different materials (these link textures, shaders, flags etc. to a mesh). Therefor even a seemingly complete model/mesh may still be composed of sub-components - right click on a model/mesh in OpenBRF and select split into connected sub-meshes sometimes you find great reuseable components hidden inside other models.
Learn to retexture. You can achieve a lot with nothing more than visual edits.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQR2oK7sw9g

Next
Once you’ve hit the limit of what you can achieve by editing existing textures, learn how to edit UV maps in Blender, so you can apply new images to existing models. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scPSP_U858k
When you find the parts you need are welded to parts you don’t want, learn how to use the knife tool in Blender to mark out a clean line for cutting and then select and delete unwanted faces. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yena_TKipIw
When parts are the wrong size or in the wrong position, learn how to rescale/adjust this in OpenBRF and or Blender.
Learn how to copy and paste rigging/skinning (the connection of meshes to the animated skeletons) in OpenBRF.

Finally go back to where you started and learn how to make from scratch any component you can’t find better made elsewhere.

 

[ARSAS]

so what should I do in regards to High Elf's tutorials should I finish the 4th & final tutorial which is in regards to UV mapping & texturing ?

or after finishing tutorial 3 I follow your instructions that you have just recommended to me ?

 

[NPC99]

Watch them all. There are few enough Warband/M&B specific tutorial videos - each one’s precious.

 

[ARSAS]

thank you NPC99, then I will watch all of High Elf's modeling tutorials,

also I'm having trouble with the vertices mode in where I see the vertices dots in the model, when vertices mode is selected red dots appear, & when it is deselected the dots become black

however, when I deselect vertices mode instead of the red dots turning black the dots dissapear,

I saw that in High Elf's tutorial that when deselected the vertices of the model turn from red to black instead of completely dissapearing ?

what do I do to fix this problem, is this even normal ?

 

[NPC99]

thank you NPC99, then I will watch all of High Elf's modeling tutorials,

also I'm having trouble with the vertices mode in where I see the vertices dots in the model, when vertices mode is selected red dots appear, & when it is deselected the dots become black

Red just indicates selected. You probably have the whole model selected. So, when you enter vertex mode all the vertices turn red. Next time, leave it in vertex mode and deselect everything. All the vertices will turn black. Then select individual vertices and they will change colour. It just tells you what will be effected by the commands you give.

however, when I deselect vertices mode instead of the red dots turning black the dots dissapear,

I saw that in High Elf's tutorial that when deselected the vertices of the model turn from red to black instead of completely dissapearing ?

what do I do to fix this problem, is this even normal ?

In 3d modelling you can manipulate either faces, edges or vertices. Until you gain more confidence, just keep a wireframe view whichever mode you’re in - it’ll help you see the underlying geometry. Don’t worry. Keep backups saved. Learn to use undo to get you out of trouble and break stuff. It’ll help you learn. Select individual vertices and move them about - see how it stretches the geometry. If you screw up just revert to the saved backup.

 

[ARSAS]

NPC99, I'm having a problem completing High Elfs 4th tutorial, the helmet I made is not perfect enough, to follow through with the 4th tutorial, since I have no intention of using Wings3D as a 3d modeling program, I would like to ask if there is a Blender tutorial that is linked with Warband that covers the content in High Elfs, tutorial 4 ?