Troops not leveling

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masta_shake

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I was curious if anyone is having the issue of their troops not leveling after several combats? I'm hestinent to put this in the bug reporting thread, as I'm not sure if it's a bug or a game mechanic.

Basically, even after several battles with equally-sized and armed groups (young men, vikingr, masterless men, etc.) none of my troops (peasants, not high level mercenaries) level; only my companions seem to gain experience. Once in a blue moon a peasant may level to a freedman, but nowhere near the rate that my troops in vanilla or even brytenwalda level. I'm talking like one peasant level every 5 battles or so...

Is this a bug, or did the devs adjust how troops level? Is anyone else experiencing this issue/game mechanic?
 
the peasant troops start off at like level 15...so you could just talk to them and see if they are gaining experience...if so - not bugged.
 
Everything takes ages to level up without all your companions having trainer up to 10 or something like that, while the AI already has a big blob of huscarls ready to throw at you and the coasts are bloated with vikingrs with equipment that high tier units only wear.
Of course, this is all according to proper research!
 
And to add a challenge.

The satisfaction I feel when my mostly mid tier army takes down the vikingr hordes knows no bounds. Especially when I stack the survivors in my refuge and recruit them into my meatshield ranks to die in place of my good old monk murdering heathens.
 
Tovias said:
Everything takes ages to level up without all your companions having trainer up to 10 or something like that, while the AI already has a big blob of huscarls ready to throw at you and the coasts are bloated with vikingrs with equipment that high tier units only wear.
Of course, this is all according to proper research!

The slow troop leveling in VC is probably more realistic than in vanilla Warband. I think you might be able to change it in the module.ini file.

It seems to me you have an issue with historical research.  While it's not definitive, the designers decided to take a conservative view of the arms and armors available at the time.  You are always free to design your own game with whatever weapons and armor you want.  It' wouldn't be too hard to add some items and weapons and then change the troops.  There are several tutorials at the Taleworlds forums.
 
I much prefer this system to the vanilla system, it makes me feel like my men are actually worth something in a way, I loved it in Brytenwalda, and I still love it in VC. The trainer in the refuge can help a lot though.
 
krisvk said:
I much prefer this system to the vanilla system, it makes me feel like my men are actually worth something in a way, I loved it in Brytenwalda, and I still love it in VC. The trainer in the refuge can help a lot though.

But in Brytenwalda it was pretty slow, especially at higher levels.
 
Redleg said:
The slow troop leveling in VC is probably more realistic than in vanilla Warband. I think you might be able to change it in the module.ini file.
Oh please, how much experience is between a god damn farmer and a watchman? I can just give a farmer a spear and he is already a militia unit. Also, I don't care about the history accuracy or research made for this mod, it clearly did nothing but damage it and give the developers ground to excuse their laziness when it came to adding content to this "DLC".
For god's sake, they could at least put it as early access or something.
The leveling system is just part of the "intentional" unbalance in this game along with the ranged weapons nerf.
 
I must agree with OP. My troops aren't leveling at all... And I have put 'trainer' to the maximum I could for myself and all my companions but one.
I'm progressing rapidly in the Story mode, I'm getting close to 60 men, I've not lost any battle.

The result ? Two of the villagers I recruited leveled up, just two. You can't tell me that's on purpose and not a bug.
 
I'm in the camp that prefers it the way VC does it. No more insta-Swadian Knights armies, you have to actually be careful with choosing your enemies and your elite troops are actually elite, as they're capable of mowing through enemy ranks, as much as you may not want to let them do so in fear of losing them.

Also, I've found out Renegades, or however those bandit parties closer to the northern regions of isles are called, are quite nice for leveling up your men. I was able to make early mid-tier party on them quite easily.

The slow early progress adds flavour for me, village elders laughing in your face when you suggest recruiting men from them, Thieves being actually someone capable of mugging lone traveler instead of being minor nuisance and early exp mine like in Warband, farmers taken freshly from the field being farmers taken freshly from the field (need better recruits? Pro-tip, get brown nose with lord and choose from recruits from settlements that actually have something resembling standing army)... the execution differs, but ideas are surely right.
 
I love this system as well, my top tier units being valuable rather then just guys in shiny armour I can replace in a week is nice and I love the fact that I have to plan ahead in wars.

Go into it without reserves and losing men is a major loss.
 
hm i dont see a problem really, raid a few monasteries, then hire  mercanaries, hunt down some vikings (start with the small ones) choose first pick and you get plenty of high end gear, witch you can equip or sell, well the moral drops but the loot and exp you get worth every bit of it.  And you can always hire more Spearmen and mercs if those silly chumps desert^^
 
I know this is quite an old thread by now, but in VC isn't it unfair that it takes so much effort to level up your troops while lords can just easily raise an army with trained units?
 
AndyRandom said:
I know this is quite an old thread by now, but in VC isn't it unfair that it takes so much effort to level up your troops while lords can just easily raise an army with trained units?

compare your char's level to lords or kings  :razz:
 
AndyRandom said:
I know this is quite an old thread by now, but in VC isn't it unfair that it takes so much effort to level up your troops while lords can just easily raise an army with trained units?

They don't raise army of trained units. Lords raise armies in batches that are composed of mix of low, mid and high tier units, where lower tier ones are majority with only few elites present. I might be wrong, but quality of the troops depends also on a prosperity of the fiefs lord have.

If you look at the composition of the army of the lord who just lost battle, you will see it is composed of mostly low tier units.

Of course lord armies gain experience over time from battles and training skill of the lord. They also take in freed prisoners of the armies they defeat. Therefore lord which wasn't defeated for quit some time, nor did he suffered catastrophic looses might have quit a few elite units in his army. But they will newer be majority.
 
Lack of progress in upgrading soldiers by battle experience is very noticeable for somebody who came from Native. But as I understand it is intentional and meant to prevent player from raising armies of elite troops. You are forced to play with more balanced armies.

If this is good or bad decision is debatable. Developers did it supposedly to make game more realistic. Problem is, core mechanisms in the game are completely unrealistic and adding unrealistic conditions on to unrealistic mechanic to make it look more realistic doesn't make for a most intuitive game. There comes confusion of the most new players. Realism or not, to make progress in the game requires player to use armies of elites anyway since that's the only way he can consistently beat the opponents of equal or superior size.

The base problem of the realism of the game is, that difference between watchman and huscarl wasn't in the experience, it was for most part, in the social status. You couldn't just run peasant through combat and some training and he became huscarl.

On the other hand peasant who fought in the serious battle or two became much more effective then peasant that did not. Especially first combat does large difference, and this is noted in modern armies too. Game however makes no difference between experienced and inexperienced peasant. Instead, he is supposed to became another troop.

Same problem with other "realistic" design choices of the Viking Conquest. Bows and archery wasn't less effective in the Viking era then in previous or following eras. Bows did not became smaller and arrows more brittle. Archers did not became weaker or blind. People simply did not use bow in combat as much as before and reasons were socioeconomic and cultural, not military ones. Same goes for cavalry. But those are not factored properly in the game. Instead developers decided to make indeed bows smaller and arrows more brittle in order to prevent player from using "unhistorical" tactics and choices. Not surprisingly most new players are left baffled and confused and unless they come to the forum and read lengthily explanation from a developer they probably wont understand game at all and will waste their time trying to play the way which is by design destined to fail, even if it's perfectly logical. They won't even know why thy fail and will eventually probably conclude that the game is bad. Which isn't true.

That said, there are ways around limitations of experience gain. First of all, there is some experience gain in battles and troops will eventually progress, if they survive long enough. Which most of them wont. The thing about MB leveling is, that troops don't gain experience individually, instead they gain experience as a group. This means that if you have large group of one type of troop, one or two of them will be ready for upgrade after one or two good battles. And since higher level troops have higher survivability in combat, you will start slowly accumulate number of high level troops over time. over long time. And you of course can't loose battle. Early game however you run small party and you won't see much effect of this.

So what can you do early game? Forget about leveling your troops through combat or training Native stile right away. Training skill works only on troops lover level then you (or your companions) and troops in VC are much higher level then in native. Training gains some sense only once you reach about level 20. Therefore you have to recruit higher level troops right away instead of getting them by leveling. Leveling simply won't do it. You can recruit good units in taverns as a mercenaries, but those are very expensive and chance is, you won't have money for this.

You can also recruit prisoners. This is by far the most effective way to get high level troops in the VC. Problem is, you have to be able to win battles and capture those troops to begin with, and you need good troops for that. Also recruiting prisoners is more difficult when you are low on level and renown. Therefore this is tactics more suitable for mid to end game.

The best early source of good troops are towns or castles. In towns and castles you can recruit tier 2 troops. These are significant improvement over tier 1 because they come with a shield and some decent 1h weapon, often some javelins. They offer the best performance for the bucks and are enough for most basic early missions.

To recruit from towns and castles, you need permission from a lord, which in turn requires you to have relation 5 or more with him and 150 renown. Both are relatively easy to get.

But the best thing is, that if you then raise your relation with town or castle to 50+, you will gain chance to recruit tier 3 troops from there (only melee ones, no skirmishers). Tier 3 makes for fairly solid main battle line and you can do more difficult missions with them and even fight in a noble wars.

This works also for villages, but you can only recruit tier 1 and tier 2 there (with good relations) and tier 2 will be skirmish line (riders in Frisia). Advantage of the villages is that you don't need permission from a lord, you can just bribe elder instead and you can recruit in the village even if you are at war with the faction.

So my tip for a new player at the start of the game, sandbox especially, is to choose some location, settle there for some time, do missions for two or three local towns and castles and few villages. Improve relations with them, gain renown, do some favors to nobles and gain their permissions. Gain some money. By doing so you will make yourself solid recruitment base were you can go to replenish your armies when you need. Tier 3 in towns/castles and tier 2 in villages is random (once you have high enough relation) but it resets every 24 hours. Therefore if you can't get them right away, give it a try the next day.
 
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