Too many bugs

[stevehoos]

I got married as a Saxon vassal, then split from the kingdom to venture out and build my own kingdom. My wife -who should have stayed in her fathers's castle- disappears entirely from the game making it impossible to keep relations with her. She's probably cheated 10 times on her hiatus. How are you supposed to stay in touch with your wife if by chance you loose holdings or change allegiance without owning a town or castle? 

When I did split from the Saxons, I took over a Denmark castle in Mercia, in the faction relations screen it said I was not at war with them after taking their castle. So I (just to test what was going on) went into a battle between the Danes and Saxony and I was put in defense of a Saxon holding with just my men and no other help.





I have 8 saves at various points throughout this month long campaign which I began as a slave. I simply cannot make enough saves in one of these campaigns to avoid bugs. I'm done.   

 

[stevehoos]

Did the events in towns or castles that effect relations get removed? I have not see them?

 

[Shaxx]

I got married as a Saxon vassal, then split from the kingdom to venture out and build my own kingdom. My wife -who should have stayed in her fathers's castle- disappears entirely from the game making it impossible to keep relations with her. She's probably cheated 10 times on her hiatus. How are you supposed to stay in touch with your wife if by chance you loose holdings or change allegiance without owning a town or castle? 

When I did split from the Saxons, I took over a Denmark castle in Mercia, in the faction relations screen it said I was not at war with them after taking their castle. So I (just to test what was going on) went into a battle between the Danes and Saxony and I was put in defense of a Saxon holding with just my men and no other help.





I have 8 saves at various points throughout this month long campaign which I began as a slave. I simply cannot make enough saves in one of these campaigns to avoid bugs. I'm done. 

I have not had too many issues myself, two 365+ (in-game) day campaigns since RE came out, the ones I did have were more design related and WAD, I just had a different preference and I was able to change most of them.

 

[stevehoos]

I took a castle from the Danes with my upstart faction, and somehow we are not at war yet? Aside from the incredibly stupidity of ubiquitous wife cheating -I don't feel like editing my simple triggers file each time which may or may not corrupt things- this thing just turned me off. The amount of tedium involved takes the fun away. I had 100 rating with my wife and boom she cheats because I failed to return in time from a defeated battle; that's asinine. "You have been informed your wife cheated while you were away," not only is that a modern sophomoric twist, it plays out in a completely ahistorical fashion. What is the point, seriously? Why is that considered a feature? For me it makes the game unplayable. 

The renown loss bothers me as well. You spend the entire game trying to raise your renown only to have it dwindle away when you reach 900 or so because you don't involve yourself regularly in fighting some of the 150 man parties of bandits -who somehow afford heraldic knightly armors and weapons. 

As I said above, I am done. I love this DLC, but it produces negative moods for me, not what I need.

 

[Shaxx]

I took a castle from the Danes, and somehow we are not at war yet?

You mean, it is not listed as a war in the faction panel or that relations did not decrease below 0?

Aside from the incredibly stupidity of ubiquitous wife cheating -I don't feel like editing my simple triggers file each time which may or may not corrupt things- this thing just turned me off. The amount of tedium involved takes the fun away. I had 100 rating with my wife and boom she cheats because I failed to return in time from a defeated battle; that's asinine. "You have been informed your wife cheated while you were away," not only is that a modern sophomoric twist, it plays out in a completely ahistorical fashion. What is the point, seriously? Why is that considered a feature? For me it makes the game unplayable. 

I have no idea why this would cause grief, it is a video game we are talking about... not that you are the first person to complain about wives cheating in the game, it just seems silly.

They got a raw deal historically speaking, I do not think you can really blame them.

Spoiler

The renown loss bothers me as well. You spend the entire game trying to raise your renown only to have it dwindle away when you reach 900 or so because you don't involve yourself regularly in fighting some of the 150 man parties of bandits -who somehow afford heraldic knightly armors and weapons.

The renown loss as far as I know is the same as it is in the Native/Vanilla version of the game, but renown gain from battles/other activities by all appearances has been increased.

No idea what you are talking about with the 'Knightly Armors and Weapons' on bandits, perhaps you are using the Dark Age Item pack VC sub mod? It adds a-historical weapons and armors to this expansion pack.

I would also point out that there is sufficient evidence that a number of bandits in the middle and early ages were in fact lesser nobility robbing travelers on or around their territory and their superiors were often unable to do anything about it.

 

[stevehoos]

1. I am in fact at war with Danmark and it fails to show it on the faction diplomacy screen.

2. Yeah, it is a video game, so why make it the wife cheating thing so redundant in the first place? This is 9th century England, not an episode of Sex In The City. Perhaps whippings and martial homicide can be added in as well? Simply ridiculous.     

3. Giant roaming parties of commoner bandits (there are far too many to be lesser nobility) had enough money to afford chain mail and swords on the isle in this period  ? Really, I'd like to see your source on this? The Anglo Saxon chronicle? The History of Britain? 

 

[Shaxx]

1. I am in fact at war with Danmark and it fails to show it on the faction diplomacy screen.

When you took the castle, was it your first independent holding?

2. Yeah, it is a video game, so why make it the wife cheating thing so redundant in the first place? This is 9th century England, not an episode of Sex In The City. Perhaps whippings and martial homicide can be added in as well? Simply ridiculous.

It is a realism feature, might as well take out stamina, shield bashing, over head spear thrusts... troops needing to eat, what is this after all, the food channel?

3. Giant roaming parties of commoner bandits (there are far too many to be lesser nobility) had enough money to afford chain mail and swords on the isle in this period  ? Really, I'd like to see your source on this? The Anglo Saxon chronicle? The History of Britain?

Hordes of chain mail wearing commoners... I am not sure we are playing the same game. I have a total 3 pieces of mail in my last campaign from bandit loot, all were from elite vikings.

The thing about lesser nobility often being bandits was just a fun fact.

 

[kalarhan]

I took a castle from the Danes with my upstart faction, and somehow we are not at war yet?

Check patch notes for 2.020 ish, diplomacy and relation between factions was tweaked to prevent too many wars when you create your faction based off your past misdeads.

Your action to take a castle creates a provocation to the other kingdom against your new nation, and also changes your personal relation with them. That means they will fight you if you don't manage to bribe to forgive you, and that the AI can declare war on you.

^ check on the personal report to see they hate you. Then check the faction diplomacy report to see they don't like your nation and have a provocation (possible war)

Did you watch the tv series for Uhtred? When the norseman conquered the castle the Wessex king marched his army towards them and tried to negotiate, he didn't simple declared war and charged the walls.

If you take a castle, create your faction and attack a lord of that nation: should be enough provocation for a war
If you take a castle, create your faction: you may get your war, depends on the AI. They have a "casus belli" against you
If you take a castle, create your faction, send a declaration of war (messanger): war

^ remember you have a messenger system for diplomacy

TLDR: Once you are a king your actions will have the more usual consequences. The change is meant to make it easier for you to start a new faction.

 

[JuJu70]

Aside from the incredibly stupidity of ubiquitous wife cheating -I don't feel like editing my simple triggers file each time which may or may not corrupt things- this thing just turned me off. The amount of tedium involved takes the fun away. I had 100 rating with my wife and boom she cheats because I failed to return in time from a defeated battle; that's asinine. "You have been informed your wife cheated while you were away," not only is that a modern sophomoric twist, it plays out in a completely ahistorical fashion. What is the point, seriously? Why is that considered a feature? For me it makes the game unplayable. 

Why do people take "cheating" literally? It's just that your wife was visited by some other lord, and people started spreading gossip. Maybe they are just friends? Maybe he brought her some unusual piece of amber? Or some wine and cheese for her and her friends since you're not around? Just because your relations with your wife 100 it doesn't mean she will love you forever, women are finicky, need constant admiration and entertainment. How many women have you dealt with in your life? 

It knocks down your relations with your wife, so it serves a purpose of you having to work on them again. And again, just like IRL. You can also work on your relations with other lords' wives and improve them and gain a lover, heck you can have half the game world as your lovers. Remember those ladies you courted, have high relations with but they married someone else? Now it's time to exact revenge. You just need to be more creative, and charismatic, the only thing I see men do in this game is to get married, make their wife an accountant, and then forget about her.

 

[Laizenbh]

You guys could add divorce options for pagans.

 

[stevehoos]

Aside from the incredibly stupidity of ubiquitous wife cheating -I don't feel like editing my simple triggers file each time which may or may not corrupt things- this thing just turned me off. The amount of tedium involved takes the fun away. I had 100 rating with my wife and boom she cheats because I failed to return in time from a defeated battle; that's asinine. "You have been informed your wife cheated while you were away," not only is that a modern sophomoric twist, it plays out in a completely ahistorical fashion. What is the point, seriously? Why is that considered a feature? For me it makes the game unplayable. 

Why do people take "cheating" literally? It's just that your wife was visited by some other lord, and people started spreading gossip. Maybe they are just friends? Maybe he brought her some unusual piece of amber? Or some wine and cheese for her and her friends since you're not around? Just because your relations with your wife 100 it doesn't mean she will love you forever, women are finicky, need constant admiration and entertainment. How many women have you dealt with in your life? 

It knocks down your relations with your wife, so it serves a purpose of you having to work on them again. And again, just like IRL. You can also work on your relations with other lords' wives and improve them and gain a lover, heck you can have half the game world as your lovers. Remember those ladies you courted, have high relations with but they married someone else? Now it's time to exact revenge. You just need to be more creative, and charismatic, the only thing I see men do in this game is to get married, make their wife an accountant, and then forget about her.

The word "Cheating" in this case always concerns infidelity unless otherwise stated. Not really sure where you have a basis for alternate interpretation; there are no card games taking place in the Lord's Hall. 

If I did not have to wander around the map for hours looking for amber -for 4 points in relations- perhaps I'd have more time to deal with a real spatiotemporal lass instead of tediously trying to regain the -50 relation just suffered. 

At least give us the option to divorce.

I am a perfectionist with these games, I never use control f4, I want maximum difficulty. The wife cheating thing is not something that is preventable by the player; eventually your going to forget to drop in, or a defeat in battle will cause you to miss your dinner date. 

 

[Shaxx]

women are finicky, need constant admiration and entertainment.

Truer words have never been spoken.

 

[stevehoos]

women are finicky, need constant admiration and entertainment.

Truer words have never been spoken.

True, but does that constitute the redundancy of cheating in this DLC? According to this DLC, 100% of women who have a warrior husband who is gone for week cheat. This is a sandbox game, this is a linear feature. 

 

[WDMeaun]

women are finicky, need constant admiration and entertainment.

Truer words have never been spoken.

True, but does that constitute the redundancy of cheating in this DLC? According to this DLC, 100% of women who have a warrior husband who is gone for week cheat. This is a sandbox game, this is a linear feature.

I think it would have been pretty much the standard to cheat, when your man is out in the world for most of the time.
Women nowadays (or men, gender actually doesn't make a difference) cheat, even if only left alone for a day. (overstatement, sadly still true)
I'm pretty sure they weren't more loyal back in the day, especially when travel/communication takes days at the very least.

Then.. and now.. it's probably the exception, when someone does -not- cheat.

 

[JuJu70]

The word "Cheating" in this case always concerns infidelity unless otherwise stated. Not really sure where you have a basis for alternate interpretation; there are no card games taking place in the Lord's Hall. 

don't know what it says now but in the original text it was clearly saying it was rumored. At any rate, since noone was holding a candle and watching what your wife did, it is a rumor and you believe it.

 

[stevehoos]

women are finicky, need constant admiration and entertainment.

Truer words have never been spoken.

True, but does that constitute the redundancy of cheating in this DLC? According to this DLC, 100% of women who have a warrior husband who is gone for week cheat. This is a sandbox game, this is a linear feature.

I think it would have been pretty much the standard to cheat, when your man is out in the world for most of the time.
Women nowadays (or men, gender actually doesn't make a difference) cheat, even if only left alone for a day. (overstatement, sadly still true)
I'm pretty sure they weren't more loyal back in the day, especially when travel/communication takes days at the very least.

Then.. and now.. it's probably the exception, when someone does -not- cheat.

"The standard" was to cheat? So most relationships in the 9th century were not monogamous? That's a bit of a reach.

People in this period suffered more pain in a month then most modern westerners do in their entire lives'. Courage and chastity were stronger virtues for people living in this period because of the nature of extreme hardship. Did people cheat? Sure they did, but not with the regularity that you all propose. This was not cosmopolitan life, people did not encounter potential bed mates at the water color. The opportunities for this did not present regularly, people were often sick and malnourished; not befitting grounds for a secret late night hike to make out point. 

In ancient Israel the punishment for adultery was death by stoning. People during the 9th century were closer to this line of thinking -the God of the old testament- then they ever were to post modern west ideals. Read the Anglo Saxon chronicle/Alfred the Great.             
 

 

[Wheem]

While I'm not some sort of expert on the history of the dark ages, I find it hard to believe that it was common for there to be believable rumors about infidelity involving noblewomen - much less actual infidelity being commonplace. Jeopardizing a noble bloodline - especially if the person being cheated on was a king - was hardly a minor matter that'd be rectified with a few gifts and/or a stern finger wagging. It was far more likely to end with the woman's execution, imprisonment, divorce, banishment to a convent, or some combination of these things.

The idea that a powerful nobleman would do nothing but twiddle his thumbs while his wife has a revolving door of lovers, whether rumored or real, is just downright silly. Adultery is still considered to be a very serious thing in modern times, but it was downright dangerous back in the day. Since there's not likely to be any new feature(s) implemented to deal with cheating spouses in the game, I'd recommend that it just simply be removed entirely. If the devs still want relations to drop periodically, then there should be a different rationale for it.

 

[kalarhan]

This topic is going off the rails now. People attacking/defending women and if they should be all cheaters or saints. C'mon. Off topic much?

OP you may find a cool tweak on the tweak thread to turn off/change how the feature works. Devs heard you, so you can also wait and see if they will change it (again).


Remember guys that bugs belong in the support thread. And things like version, clear description, savegame file, etc are important if you want devs to investigate. "too many bugs" doesn't help anyone (players or devs)

 

[WDMeaun]

women are finicky, need constant admiration and entertainment.

Truer words have never been spoken.

True, but does that constitute the redundancy of cheating in this DLC? According to this DLC, 100% of women who have a warrior husband who is gone for week cheat. This is a sandbox game, this is a linear feature.

I think it would have been pretty much the standard to cheat, when your man is out in the world for most of the time.
Women nowadays (or men, gender actually doesn't make a difference) cheat, even if only left alone for a day. (overstatement, sadly still true)
I'm pretty sure they weren't more loyal back in the day, especially when travel/communication takes days at the very least.

Then.. and now.. it's probably the exception, when someone does -not- cheat.

"The standard" was to cheat? So most relationships in the 9th century were not monogamous? That's a bit of a reach.

People in this period suffered more pain in a month then most modern westerners do in their entire lives'. Courage and chastity were stronger virtues for people living in this period because of the nature of extreme hardship. Did people cheat? Sure they did, but not with the regularity that you all propose. This was not cosmopolitan life, people did not encounter potential bed mates at the water color. The opportunities for this did not present regularly, people were often sick and malnourished; not befitting grounds for a secret late night hike to make out point. 

In ancient Israel the punishment for adultery was death by stoning. People during the 9th century were closer to this line of thinking -the God of the old testament- then they ever were to post modern west ideals. Read the Anglo Saxon chronicle/Alfred the Great.             

I did go a bit off topic with that one

Humans aren't created as monogamous creatures. In nature it's pretty rare to encounter animals, which are monogamous. (they do exist, plenty, but still in comparison it's rare)

I was more implying that human nature probably hasn't changed a lot (or in my opinion -at all-) and seeing how people behave now.. I have a hard time imaging people being monogamous at that time.

As player character you probably visit your home (I forgot the original story, sorry) only very sporadic.
If you generally only visit a day per month.. it does make sense for rumors to start appearing.

I'm not talking about gameplay wise.. maybe the penalty is too high, or the text isn't quite clear.. I actually haven't been married in Vikings Conquest.
I did marry in other single player versions, where disappearing partners is a common bug.

I do want to point out I wasnt pointing to a specific gender regarding fidelity. (men and women are just as bad)
I am confident in saying that most women can't drive and that most men can't do more than single thing at a time.