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Am i a moaner? yeah probably I am.
Am i a bad player? Yes I am that's sure!
That said, it's now days i'm witness of 1000 whiffs before a kill using axes, and seen short and medium spears used like 2h being deadly like 2h axes before the script was introduced (spears seems fully bladed, with no wooden shaft) and fast like seax (plural? seaxes? not sure sorry
).
Both of them seem more usefull than 1h axes however.
I just putted down some stats about Vikingr swords and axes, just for discussing with you if it's only an impression of mine (which i complain so much in game for ) or maybe something to re-work with
Legenda: Sw = swing; T = thrust; Sp = speed; WR = Weapon reach
Vikingr Swords
Valkyria: Sw 38 T 23 Sp 95 WR 87
Hersir: Sw 35 T 20 Sp 95 WR 93
Huscarl: Sw 35 T 19 Sp 94 WR 95
Knud: Sw 34 T 19 Sp 94 WR 98
Gaddhjalt: SW 33 T 19 Sp 95 WR 103
Single E.: Sw 40 T 16 Sp 93 WR 91
Short: Sw 33 T 23 Sp 96 WR 74
Seax: Sw 22 T 26 Sp 101 WR 47
Vikingr Axes
Trondr: Sw 41 T - Sp 93 WR 67
Battle: Sw 43 T - Sp 92 WR 70
Mammen: Sw 41 T - Sp 94 WR 61
War Axe: Sw 39 T - Sp 93 WR 67
1h Hedmarks: SW 39 T - Sp 96 WR 58
1h Dane Axe: Sw 36 T - Sp 95 WR 68
Cutting Axe: Sw 32 T - Sp 99 WR 47
The average speed is 94,5 for both swords and axes but i excluded the seax (even if its thrust is the best among all, that i cant understand but maybe someone could explaine me that). I remember someone in some other thread said axes are faster. This is false at least for Vikingr axes.
Average swing for swords is 35,4 and for axes is 38,7. Hm. Not that big difference i expected much much more, especially if we consider the most of hits from axes end with a whiff. So far, i only considered vikingr because of lack of time
Now you can argue these are only figures and for hitting properly a player you have to consider much more variables and i agree on that of course. But the mod is basically a program that follows mathematic rules.
Engles seems to be the weaker faction according to its weapon catalogue. 1 seax, 1 longseax and short axes only. Considering how the game was modded lately it seems to be a choice that get this faction even weaker.
The point of this: are you modders happy with this? is there any improvement you are working on worth to be mentioned?
Personally, as said many times, you did a great job with the script and you stepped on the right way but things can't stay as they are now. Minimum range for axes should be re-worked and spears seems really to be very effective even in melee. An axeman attacking a spearman cant facehug him because of whiffs, nor stay too far from him.. because of whiffs but the spearman seems to have no problem on a backpedale-hit.
Take it as something to discuss about, and not a moan even if sometimes it seems like that on the server ahah
Am i a bad player? Yes I am that's sure!
That said, it's now days i'm witness of 1000 whiffs before a kill using axes, and seen short and medium spears used like 2h being deadly like 2h axes before the script was introduced (spears seems fully bladed, with no wooden shaft) and fast like seax (plural? seaxes? not sure sorry
).Both of them seem more usefull than 1h axes however.
I just putted down some stats about Vikingr swords and axes, just for discussing with you if it's only an impression of mine (which i complain so much in game for
) or maybe something to re-work with Legenda: Sw = swing; T = thrust; Sp = speed; WR = Weapon reach
Vikingr Swords
Valkyria: Sw 38 T 23 Sp 95 WR 87
Hersir: Sw 35 T 20 Sp 95 WR 93
Huscarl: Sw 35 T 19 Sp 94 WR 95
Knud: Sw 34 T 19 Sp 94 WR 98
Gaddhjalt: SW 33 T 19 Sp 95 WR 103
Single E.: Sw 40 T 16 Sp 93 WR 91
Short: Sw 33 T 23 Sp 96 WR 74
Seax: Sw 22 T 26 Sp 101 WR 47
Vikingr Axes
Trondr: Sw 41 T - Sp 93 WR 67
Battle: Sw 43 T - Sp 92 WR 70
Mammen: Sw 41 T - Sp 94 WR 61
War Axe: Sw 39 T - Sp 93 WR 67
1h Hedmarks: SW 39 T - Sp 96 WR 58
1h Dane Axe: Sw 36 T - Sp 95 WR 68
Cutting Axe: Sw 32 T - Sp 99 WR 47
The average speed is 94,5 for both swords and axes but i excluded the seax (even if its thrust is the best among all, that i cant understand but maybe someone could explaine me that). I remember someone in some other thread said axes are faster. This is false at least for Vikingr axes.
Average swing for swords is 35,4 and for axes is 38,7. Hm. Not that big difference i expected much much more, especially if we consider the most of hits from axes end with a whiff. So far, i only considered vikingr because of lack of time
Now you can argue these are only figures and for hitting properly a player you have to consider much more variables and i agree on that of course. But the mod is basically a program that follows mathematic rules.
Engles seems to be the weaker faction according to its weapon catalogue. 1 seax, 1 longseax and short axes only. Considering how the game was modded lately it seems to be a choice that get this faction even weaker.
The point of this: are you modders happy with this? is there any improvement you are working on worth to be mentioned?
Personally, as said many times, you did a great job with the script and you stepped on the right way but things can't stay as they are now. Minimum range for axes should be re-worked and spears seems really to be very effective even in melee. An axeman attacking a spearman cant facehug him because of whiffs, nor stay too far from him.. because of whiffs
but the spearman seems to have no problem on a backpedale-hit.Take it as something to discuss about, and not a moan even if sometimes it seems like that on the server ahah
Helge, you just felt the need to quote the full post and add four words underneath? lul...
Finnólfr, I see you have spent some time on this post - and thus, you desserve a proper answer.
I'd say you're right about most of your arguments. Your main concern: The one-handed axes are truly less handy, although IF you manage to place your axe properly in someone's face, it WILL crush his/her skull :-þ
That said, I wouldn't mind if axes were even more lethal - making them hard to handle, but absolutely über-lethal in the hands of a master. Swords are rightly better in a whole, reflecting their worth and status as the most coveted weapon.
Spears have truly become more prevalent lately, maybe because of the difficulty of wielding axes properly. And yes, the ovehead-hit should be much harder to pull off - it's quite lethal actually, as of now. I have also noticed the successful spear-stabs from VERY close range - it might have something to do with the spinning, which unfortunately has not been entirely rooted out.
The seax is rightly the most lethal stabbing-weapon - used for gutting your opponent in a tight fight (shieldwall).
PS.
I'd just officially plea for the "bearded axe," (the dark one of them or both) available to all factions but the Vikingar, be given to them asap!
PPS.
Also, since it's probably a Danish design anyway!
Finnólfr, I see you have spent some time on this post - and thus, you desserve a proper answer.
I'd say you're right about most of your arguments. Your main concern: The one-handed axes are truly less handy, although IF you manage to place your axe properly in someone's face, it WILL crush his/her skull :-þ
That said, I wouldn't mind if axes were even more lethal - making them hard to handle, but absolutely über-lethal in the hands of a master. Swords are rightly better in a whole, reflecting their worth and status as the most coveted weapon.
Spears have truly become more prevalent lately, maybe because of the difficulty of wielding axes properly. And yes, the ovehead-hit should be much harder to pull off - it's quite lethal actually, as of now. I have also noticed the successful spear-stabs from VERY close range - it might have something to do with the spinning, which unfortunately has not been entirely rooted out.
The seax is rightly the most lethal stabbing-weapon - used for gutting your opponent in a tight fight (shieldwall).
PS.
I'd just officially plea for the "bearded axe," (the dark one of them or both) available to all factions but the Vikingar, be given to them asap!
PPS.
Also, since it's probably a Danish design anyway!
Mm mm... first of all thanks for your answer Dansk.
About spears, it's not only the spinning hit i was complain about, i know it's something within the Warband engine there is not much to do about for, sadly. But i think short and medium spears can fully thrust through an enemy even in close quarters.
Seax is defenitely the fastest weapon in game, fair enough. But the best thrust also... mm i would check it again. Its blade is so short, don't know i'm really doubtfull about it.
And axes, as my country-mate Avgvstvs said some days ago, yeah they can be deadly if you hit from a perfect range that could be easy with a static target, but your opponent it's not supposed to be static.
Hitting properly started being something closer to "luck" rather than "skill".
About spears, it's not only the spinning hit i was complain about, i know it's something within the Warband engine there is not much to do about for, sadly. But i think short and medium spears can fully thrust through an enemy even in close quarters.
Seax is defenitely the fastest weapon in game, fair enough. But the best thrust also... mm i would check it again. Its blade is so short, don't know i'm really doubtfull about it.
And axes, as my country-mate Avgvstvs said some days ago, yeah they can be deadly if you hit from a perfect range that could be easy with a static target, but your opponent it's not supposed to be static.
Hitting properly started being something closer to "luck" rather than "skill".
I honestly don't see the problem with axes. Swords cost more than twice as much (maybe they should be even more expensive, but still). I still get tons of whiffs with axes, but I find that has more to do with my playing style not having adapted yet - I find myself face-hugging way too often, and so far whenever I've remembered to take a step back and keep the appropriate distance for whatever axe I was using I've managed a proper hit.
Avgvstvs
Regular
to be honest I think that 1h axes are a bit difficult to use due to the correct distance of use, but this point is also the good point for the script improvment. Sword I think that now are a bit weak, consider that now the 90% of the hit can't kill, even in the face, and personally I think that this is not correct at all...but I can understand that this is due to give to the axes a important role...ok!
another point is the spears.. a part for the "lame" spin, the long one it's ok, the medium as well, but the short-one not at all! absolutely incorrect. speedy as seax, lethal as a normal sword, without "wood script" and with the lame utilization as kick and spin it's really annoying and odd
another point is the spears.. a part for the "lame" spin, the long one it's ok, the medium as well, but the short-one not at all! absolutely incorrect. speedy as seax, lethal as a normal sword, without "wood script" and with the lame utilization as kick and spin it's really annoying and odd
I agree. Blue tunics would be nice.
BRAIDS.
Also crouched movement, nay. It would serve no point, and it's difficult as hell. Try for yourself - you won't be strafing or going backwards without falling over. Not in any remarkable speed, anyway.
irondeath said:Demand more beards and heairstyles!!
We could get some ideas form Deluge mod and other places.
Longer beards, also could be added separated beard and all other kinds.
Crouching movement A S D.
BRAIDS.
Also crouched movement, nay. It would serve no point, and it's difficult as hell. Try for yourself - you won't be strafing or going backwards without falling over. Not in any remarkable speed, anyway.
My suggestion is to remove kicking from the game. No offense to players who use it so well, because I know it isn't easy and it's taken me some time to work my way around it (it now being actually the best opportunity for me to kill players who are better than me by keeping distance when they want to kick), so it's not that the effect annoys me so much. It's just too silly. Stick your leg out to me in a fight while I have a sword, and I will slash it. Moreover, assuming you've actually managed to land a good kick, the opponent wouldn't usually be so staggered to be entirely vulnerable for the next hit. It just breaks the immersion for me. In Native it is nice because it's so obviously a game, but I always play Vikingr because I get more immersion than in Native. People who get into close combat shouldn't rely on their kicking ability or their ability to avoid it.
I would suggest replacing the 'E' with the shieldbash perhaps such as the one in Brytenwalda, but I think I recall that animation or something not working in this mod. Maybe something else can be thought of, I don't know. I just hate the sillyness of kicking and wish it wasn't part of this mod.
I would suggest replacing the 'E' with the shieldbash perhaps such as the one in Brytenwalda, but I think I recall that animation or something not working in this mod. Maybe something else can be thought of, I don't know. I just hate the sillyness of kicking and wish it wasn't part of this mod.
I imagined this happening and I lol'd.Kwal said:
"guy tries to kick a charging opponent, opponent slashes and cuts his leg off"
*AAHHH BASTARD WHY DID YOU DO THAT, AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhRUe-gz690&feature=player_detailpage#t=196s
Hahahaha yes, Monty Python is epic.
Hengwulf
Sergeant Knight
put this on E!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B95By9w2MWA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B95By9w2MWA
Dragomir
Knight
About the kick - one should be able to block it with shield, maybe not entirely. I mean, instead of being confused for 3 seconds by the kick, if a warrior block, he would release his block for about half a second. Same could go for high damage, strong hits. It would be a great encourage of teamwork, one hits the shield giving an opportunity for the others to kill the bastard (and that is how it exactly works in reenactment, I use spear or dane axe more often to "open" the opponent, than kill him).
Another suggestion from me: how to make berserkr special? It hit me today! I love how the jump slashes in vikingr are impossible, so that we don't have heavy armored knight ninjas with two handed sword, like in cRPG. But would it be possible, to allow only berserkers doing jump-slashes? It would fit the crazy, experienced madmen fighters very well. Also as a shock troop - jump into enemie's shieldwall and immediatelly cut like a beast. I would also love to see jumping at someone doing some stun, much smaller than a horse, but relevant in suicide charges to break the enemy lines.
It is not very safe to kick in Vikingr either
Another suggestion from me: how to make berserkr special? It hit me today! I love how the jump slashes in vikingr are impossible, so that we don't have heavy armored knight ninjas with two handed sword, like in cRPG. But would it be possible, to allow only berserkers doing jump-slashes? It would fit the crazy, experienced madmen fighters very well. Also as a shock troop - jump into enemie's shieldwall and immediatelly cut like a beast. I would also love to see jumping at someone doing some stun, much smaller than a horse, but relevant in suicide charges to break the enemy lines.
Kwal said:That's still bloody dangerous, exposing your leg like that
It is not very safe to kick in Vikingr either