[Suggestion] Archer reticules

[Dudro]

I disagree with the current form of archer aiming, the "screws up after you hold it for a seconds", not because it makes gameplay poorer, but because of realism.  I have an idea that would not harm game play in the least (as far as I can see), but add to the realism of the game.  Everyone knows that by holding a drawn bow for a few second doesn't decrease accuracy at all, though it does in the game.  My idea is slightly confusing, I should think, but I'll do my best to explain it.

Currently:
-You click and hold to draw the bow, and then release to fire.
-Your reticule enlarges after a few seconds, to the point it's impossible to hit anything more than 10 feet away.
-The arrow always does the same amount of damage.

My idea:
-You hold down the mouse button until the reticule goes as small as you want, and release as soon as that happens.
-Instead of firing after release, it is held there.
-You fire by re-clicking the mouse button.
-The amount of time that the reticule will not move is based on how small the reticule is when when you stop holding it down.
-Say, if the reticule dots have only a quarter inch in between them, you'll be able to hold it a lot longer than if it was a pinpoint.
-So the longer you hold it the button down the first time, the closer it will go to a pinpoint.
-Holding down the button to a pinpoint will also increase damage, because it simulates drawing the string back to your ear, as far as you can, however this tires out your arm.
-If you were to release the mouse button right after you started holding it so that the reticule only goes to halfway, and then released it, it wouldn't go as far, or do as much damage.

I don't think I left anything out, what do you all think?

 

[PsykoOps]

Have you shot a real bow? A powerfull one at that? You lose accuracy because you lose fatigue when you hold it drawn, it's very tiring. Especially with bows that are powerfull you can't hold and keep aiming. As an archer I have to say no to this.

 

[Dudro]

Yes, I have shot a bow, that's what I'm getting at
When you draw it all the way to your cheek, it takes a lot of strength, but if you were to not draw it very far, it wouldn't take as much strength, do you understand?

 

[PsykoOps]

So you could snapshot? I don't think that would work very well, since the aiming would be totally screwed up. I have proposed in the past that archery should be changed so that it's a 2 part animation like xbows. First part and the slower one that takes about 3/4th's of the entire sequence is the nocking. Then you can run around and do whatever but the arrow stays in the bow unless you get hit or fall down. The second part would be the draw/release which should be quite a fast action.

 

[Yellonet]

I disagree with the current form of archer aiming, the "screws up after you hold it for a seconds", not because it makes gameplay poorer, but because of realism.  I have an idea that would not harm game play in the least (as far as I can see), but add to the realism of the game.  Everyone knows that by holding a drawn bow for a few second doesn't decrease accuracy at all, though it does in the game.  My idea is slightly confusing, I should think, but I'll do my best to explain it.

Currently:
-You click and hold to draw the bow, and then release to fire.
-Your reticule enlarges after a few seconds, to the point it's impossible to hit anything more than 10 feet away.
-The arrow always does the same amount of damage.

My idea:
-You hold down the mouse button until the reticule goes as small as you want, and release as soon as that happens.
-Instead of firing after release, it is held there.
-You fire by re-clicking the mouse button.
-The amount of time that the reticule will not move is based on how small the reticule is when when you stop holding it down.
-Say, if the reticule dots have only a quarter inch in between them, you'll be able to hold it a lot longer than if it was a pinpoint.
-So the longer you hold it the button down the first time, the closer it will go to a pinpoint.
-Holding down the button to a pinpoint will also increase damage, because it simulates drawing the string back to your ear, as far as you can, however this tires out your arm.
-If you were to release the mouse button right after you started holding it so that the reticule only goes to halfway, and then released it, it wouldn't go as far, or do as much damage.

I don't think I left anything out, what do you all think?

Sounds good, but I'm unsure of how usable it would be, especially as it complicates things a bit going away from the intuitive hold button to draw, release button to release arrow.

 

[Yellonet]

So you could snapshot? I don't think that would work very well, since the aiming would be totally screwed up. I have proposed in the past that archery should be changed so that it's a 2 part animation like xbows. First part and the slower one that takes about 3/4th's of the entire sequence is the nocking. Then you can run around and do whatever but the arrow stays in the bow unless you get hit or fall down. The second part would be the draw/release which should be quite a fast action.

Mmm... I think I would like that.

 

[Dudro]

Well, just an idea.

 

[Welcome_To_Hell]

The longer the player will hold down the button the more damage will the arrow do?

I don't like it. Archers would turn around and snap shoot low dmg arrows just to distort the player when hit...

Modern Composite bow is nothing like a old bow, in a modern bow after you pass a certain point it becomes very easy to hold enabling the shooter to lead the target for a long time.

 

[Yellonet]

The longer the player will hold down the button the more damage will the arrow do?

I don't like it. Archers would turn around and snap shoot low dmg arrows just to distort the player when hit...

You don't like it because you're an infantry guy...?

 

[Rhade]

Couldn't disagree more with this.

Understand, the balance between xbows and bows is the fact that xbows' advantages are being able to fire quickly in a moment of advantage due to being able to hold the targeting recticle tight infintely, and fire when opportunity presents itself. It has a long reload time -- On the vein, I entirely disagree with players carrying multiple crossbows to circumvent this weakness. I'm a firm believer in strengths and weaknesses in every tactic/class.

A bow's advantage is a higher rate of fire. It is not so much a surgical knife as it is a machete, clearing groups of infantry more effectively.

The two need to retain their strengths and individuality, or you may as well just make them the same model.

 

[Skyrage]

I kinda don't see why people assume that you would even be allowed to keep an arrow nooked and ready to be fired if you start running..........

 

[Yellonet]

Couldn't disagree more with this.

Understand, the balance between xbows and bows is the fact that xbows' advantages are being able to fire quickly in a moment of advantage due to being able to hold the targeting recticle tight infintely, and fire when opportunity presents itself. It has a long reload time -- On the vein, I entirely disagree with players carrying multiple crossbows to circumvent this weakness. I'm a firm believer in strengths and weaknesses in every tactic/class.

A bow's advantage is a higher rate of fire. It is not so much a surgical knife as it is a machete, clearing groups of infantry more effectively.

The two need to retain their strengths and individuality, or you may as well just make them the same model.

Don't think about balance so much, and more about realism, then things will tend to balance themselves realistically.
A crossbow should not be able to be hung on the back loaded, the bolt only lies in a groove, if you tip the crossbow too much the bolt will fall out, furthermore hanging on the back ready to fire, the mechanism would probably fire as you move around.

It's realistic for an archer to knock an arrow and keep it like that until he wants to shoot it, the arrow would have a groove at the rear for the string and then you can easily hold it in place at the handle with the left hand.

The crossbow would still be faster to shoot though as you only press the trigger, for the bow you have to pull the sting back first.

 

[CalenLoki]

Everyone knows that by holding a drawn compound or light bow for a few second doesn't decrease accuracy at all

Fixed for you

As always agree with separate nocking and drawing animation.

Couldn't disagree more with this.

Understand, the balance between xbows and bows is the fact that xbows' advantages are being able to fire quickly in a moment of advantage due to being able to hold the targeting recticle tight infintely, and fire when opportunity presents itself. It has a long reload time -- On the vein, I entirely disagree with players carrying multiple crossbows to circumvent this weakness. I'm a firm believer in strengths and weaknesses in every tactic/class.

A bow's advantage is a higher rate of fire. It is not so much a surgical knife as it is a machete, clearing groups of infantry more effectively.

The two need to retain their strengths and individuality, or you may as well just make them the same model.

Don't think about balance so much, and more about realism, then things will tend to balance themselves realistically.
A crossbow should not be able to be hung on the back loaded, the bolt only lies in a groove, if you tip the crossbow too much the bolt will fall out, furthermore hanging on the back ready to fire, the mechanism would probably fire as you move around.

It's realistic for an archer to knock an arrow and keep it like that until he wants to shoot it, the arrow would have a groove at the rear for the string and then you can easily hold it in place at the handle with the left hand.

The crossbow would still be faster to shoot though as you only press the trigger, for the bow you have to pull the sting back first.

True.

 

[Arcon]

NERF ALL RANGED! YES NERF NERF NERF

 

[Makh]

So you could snapshot? I don't think that would work very well, since the aiming would be totally screwed up. I have proposed in the past that archery should be changed so that it's a 2 part animation like xbows. First part and the slower one that takes about 3/4th's of the entire sequence is the nocking. Then you can run around and do whatever but the arrow stays in the bow unless you get hit or fall down. The second part would be the draw/release which should be quite a fast action.

I like this a lot.

 

[Berserker Pride]

This is more realistic.  Depending how long it took to get the bow to a really narrow reticule it could also be balanced so that bow users would be very powerful at long ranges with a slow fire rate but have to fire weaker quicker shots as the enemy got close.  It is certainly more realistic than the current system.  It would take some balancing but would work well.

 

[PsykoOps]

I kinda don't see why people assume that you would even be allowed to keep an arrow nooked and ready to be fired if you start running..........

Why wouldn't you? You could do circus acrobatics and it wouldn't flinch. You should only lose the arrow if you shoot it, get hit, fall down or switch weapons.

 

[CalenLoki]

This is more realistic.  Depending how long it took to get the bow to a really narrow reticule it could also be balanced so that bow users would be very powerful at long ranges with a slow fire rate but have to fire weaker quicker shots as the enemy got close.  It is certainly more realistic than the current system.  It would take some balancing but would work well.

It's already in game, but without changing drawing length (which isn't good for accuracy - only for massive archery volley fire). In game only your acc looks like that currently, which is good imo:

Spoiler

PS. I'm not sure if accuracy works like that, but reticule size for sure.

I kinda don't see why people assume that you would even be allowed to keep an arrow nooked and ready to be fired if you start running..........

Why wouldn't you? You could do circus acrobatics and it wouldn't flinch. You should only lose the arrow if you shoot it, get hit, fall down or switch weapons.

Don't think that you should lose arrow if you get hit or fall down- this way also crossbowman should lose (shoot) his bolt, if he was aiming while get hit/fall down.
BTW it shouldn't be possible to put loaded crossbow on your back, but difference between medieval crossbow and modern firearms is discussion topic for another thread...

 

[Dudro]

The longer the player will hold down the button the more damage will the arrow do?

I don't like it. Archers would turn around and snap shoot low dmg arrows just to distort the player when hit...

Modern Composite bow is nothing like a old bow, in a modern bow after you pass a certain point it becomes very easy to hold enabling the shooter to lead the target for a long time.

Haha, I think you mean a compound bow, or are they one and the same?

 

[PsykoOps]

Don't think that you should lose arrow if you get hit or fall down- this way also crossbowman should lose (shoot) his bolt, if he was aiming while get hit/fall down.
BTW it shouldn't be possible to put loaded crossbow on your back, but difference between medieval crossbow and modern firearms is discussion topic for another thread...

Yes xbows should lose the shot if they switch weapons, or get hit or fall down.