Sturgian Druzhinnik identity?

[TheycallmeCoconutJones]

Well wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Russian_army) says Druzhina would be the historically accurate noble troop. Also apparently they DID dismount for battle.



Huh

Edit: Citation needed probably

your correct, i dont want to get rid of the druzhinna i want them to be more prevalent then they are, i was trying to say get rid of the Varyag melee aspect of it and make it mounted like the most of the noble cav units.

Mounted archery - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

if you notice in the part of that article about heavy horse archers the Cataphract and Druzhinna are mentioned of making use of bows but neither of the units in game that are based on the real life examples don't use the same type of equipment to the same extents anyway. having the druzhinna focus on shield/axe +bow/arrow would let is work as a unit that could dismount and still make something happen if they need to go on foot for a particular situation

imagine trying to dismount and use a lance as a spear..... yikes lol

 

[panxo_dakilla]

your correct, i dont want to get rid of the druzhinna i want them to be more prevalent then they are, i was trying to say get rid of the Varyag melee aspect of it and make it mounted like the most of the noble cav units.

Mounted archery - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

if you notice in the part of that article about heavy horse archers the Cataphract and Druzhinna are mentioned of making use of bows but neither of the units in game that are based on the real life examples don't use the same type of equipment to the same extents anyway. having the druzhinna focus on shield/axe +bow/arrow would let is work as a unit that could dismount and still make something happen if they need to go on foot for a particular situation

imagine trying to dismount and use a lance as a spear..... yikes lol

Well if polearms worked better, or if you could plant them to stop charges I imagine it'd be OP, as their horses standing between the formation would make enemy cavalry get stuck and be easy prey (kinda like that strategy to cheese Khergits im WB you could do)

 

[CZII]

Well wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Russian_army) says Druzhina would be the historically accurate noble troop. Also apparently they DID dismount for battle.

It's not that they dismounted for battle. Much like other historic heavy cavalry, they were expected to fulfill whatever role was required from them as the men with the best training and equipment available. E.g. Rus' princes often lead river and sea expeditions that did not present a lot of opportunities for cavalry charges. That didn't mean their retinue got to stay home because they couldn't bring horses. They were also (and at times mostly) expected to be proficient in horse archery as Rus' had conflicts with steppe tribes ever since its foundation.
I'm guessing devs toyed with the idea of making them heavy horse archers but decided against it at some point seeing how druzhinniks do have bows in the mp and had higher bow skill than polearm skill until the latest beta patch in sp. Many of the Sturgian lords also use bows. I am personally not a fan of the idea since we already have Khan's guard and Sturgia has no other shock cavalry to fill the void, but it would be better than them being reskinned Vlandian knights.

 

[Reiksmarshal]

The key is in that pic

I would honestly just model them after the Vaegir knights and be done with it. Two handed weapons on horse back is really nasty, I ran into some of those elder troops from the Karakhuzaits who have two handed weapons and they slaughtered a crap tone of my horse archers. They would just ride by like the grim reaper cutting down one horse archer after another. I'm not opposed to giving them bows or javelins or even a mix to give them a little more versatility. Making them foot nobles though is not a good idea as that will make them too close to the Nords which will most likely be invading at some point to be an emerging faction. Then of course it would be nice if they fixed their broken horse armor as well.

 

[ElCrisp]

The Sturgian noble line is important because that is your ONLY source of strong Cav, while Vlandia has a second route. It seems like people just want to play Vikings, and that's why they want the change. My thoughts are you should just create an entirely new faction via mods and have them be Vikings (Nords) and not crap on Sturgia being Slav

While I agree many people just want vikings, that is not what I want for sturgia in making this thread. I beilieve if the minor factions get more functionality + rebellion mechanics are added, this creates an awesome and thematic space for the nordic parts adjacent to sturgia to shine on their own.
Sturgian Horse Raiders are actually quite strong a cav unit. Plus in my second suggestion where they get noble infantry I also stipulated another Cav unit could be added to their base tree as one of the infantry would likely come off.

 

[Chaosreaper187]

Just remove the drushniks or move them to the main upgrade path and make the varyags upgrade to huscarls.

 

[Earth Dragon]

Just remove the drushniks or move them to the main upgrade path and make the varyags upgrade to huscarls.

Have you read anything in this thread?

That's exactly what SHOULDN'T happen

 

[TheycallmeCoconutJones]

Have you read anything in this thread?

That's exactly what SHOULDN'T happen

yeah an all infantry noble line will just make sturgia even weaker, they will just be a hard to get foot unit that will die without much impact on the battle

iv been playing around with the files for a bit now and brute forced a personal mod making the druzhinnik's line start on horses, keep its original bow stats while replacing the lance with bow/arrows. they just feel like they can actually get up and running before dieing horribly in the chaos of the infantry fight, and with the bow/arrow axe/shield combo they can be usefull against all of the neighboring enemy factions instead of just a few of them (im looking at you Khan)

 

[Svang]

Nope you are wrong..

Rhodoks was closer to the Empire with that big shielded spear men and crossbowed units.

Vaegirs are northen guys from the mountains - not directly russians but mixed -- with mostly using one & two handed axes , best archers and good heavy cavalry
Nords -- were the Vikings with rounded shields and no cavalry units they had huscarls and good archers

Also from the location of the kingdoms and the banners I can say that the Sturgians should be closer with NORD culture , where the Battanians should be on the VAEGIR culture. So that I think That heavy horseman of the Sturgians are in the wrong kingdoms troop tree..

Thats why I wrote the troop trees must be rechecked according to the culture histories.

 

[Chaosreaper187]

Have you read anything in this thread?

That's exactly what SHOULDN'T happen

Yeah I glanced over it, it's basically sturgia should be more Russian because nationalism.
Just move the drushniks to the main branch and it will be more accessible, maybe make us choose between brigand and drushniks or give the drushniks throwing weapons and make the brigand upgrade to them.
And give everybody throwing axes.
It only makes sense, who are the main enemy of the Sturgians?
To the far west the vlandians, spears will be beneficial against their cav and shields will be good against their crossbows.
To the south the battanians, really good archers but still mostly infantry so skirmish cav is enough, infantry will need to do most of the work anyway.
To the east is the most dangerous foe, the khuzaits.
Honestly with the way ranged works in the game right now there's no way sturgia would beat them on an open field. Drushniks are no match for their heavy cavalry and their horse archers will just murder them as well.
Better to stick with infantry and a small amount of skirmish cav

 

[Apocal]

Giving Druzh two-handed axes would make them stand-out somewhat and probably hellp make them very effective mix-it-up melee cav.