Sturgia - Make up your mind about this faction.

[Do not look here]

To be honest, Sturgia right now is basically nords with some slavic hats sprinkled on top.

Also, stop making pyramids, you nord-egyptians.

 

[Scarf Ace]

I know you were talking about english, and that's my point exactly. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever because that's not how language developed in Kievan Rus. If Taleworlds intends for Sturgia to be inspired by Kievan Rus, then they need to be consistent with what things are called, how the various troops are named. You don't go around calling teachers 'teacher' in turkish in England do you? Nor do you call mechanics 'mechanic' in russian in Italy. Throwing around words such as Druzhina and Huskarl and Viking without a care in the world is doing precisely that.

The Sturgians aren't the Kievan Rus
For god's sake, get it into your head that this is a fictional bloody world with creative freedom. Just as the Normans weren't running around with kettle hats and coats of plates in the 11th century, certain aspects are mixed and fictionalised. If they roughly fill the same role as people who held such titles historically, it's fine.
By the way, it makes perfect sense for the word Huskarl to be seen alongside Druzhina, just as housecarls (a term imported via Danelaw) existed in England alongside more native terms that meant almost the same thing. Following the Norman invasion this happened ad absurdum to the point where we have two separate words for an animal and its meat.

 

[Androme1]

To be honest, Sturgia right now is basically nords with some slavic hats sprinkled on top.

Exactly, and would anyone who has the slightest standard enjoy this level of "depth"?

 

[Androme1]

I know you were talking about english, and that's my point exactly. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever because that's not how language developed in Kievan Rus. If Taleworlds intends for Sturgia to be inspired by Kievan Rus, then they need to be consistent with what things are called, how the various troops are named. You don't go around calling teachers 'teacher' in turkish in England do you? Nor do you call mechanics 'mechanic' in russian in Italy. Throwing around words such as Druzhina and Huskarl and Viking without a care in the world is doing precisely that.

The Sturgians aren't the Kievan Rus
For god's sake, get it into your head that this is a fictional bloody world with creative freedom.

This is not a valid argument. Might aswell give the Khuzaits curved swords called "Katanas" while at it because japanese-boos or whatever they're called want an "asian faction" in the game?

 

[Scarf Ace]

I know you were talking about english, and that's my point exactly. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever because that's not how language developed in Kievan Rus. If Taleworlds intends for Sturgia to be inspired by Kievan Rus, then they need to be consistent with what things are called, how the various troops are named. You don't go around calling teachers 'teacher' in turkish in England do you? Nor do you call mechanics 'mechanic' in russian in Italy. Throwing around words such as Druzhina and Huskarl and Viking without a care in the world is doing precisely that.

The Sturgians aren't the Kievan Rus
For god's sake, get it into your head that this is a fictional bloody world with creative freedom.

This is not a valid argument. Might aswell give the Khuzaits curved swords called "Katanas" while at it because japanese-boos or whatever they're called want an "asian faction" in the game?

You suck at arguing.
Well if the Khuzaits were an East Asian blend of cultures, it would've made sense. They're not though. They're primarily based on Turkic peoples specifically with some influence from other steppe cultures. This makes sense as all steppe cultures borrowed from each other and intermingled.
If you actually bothered to look at the lore before going on a ****-fit you'd see that the Sturgians are canonically a blend of different cultures including Nords and "local tribes" who are presumably based on Slavs. There's also a Finnic-inspired sub-faction, and so on.

 

[Androme1]

I know you were talking about english, and that's my point exactly. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever because that's not how language developed in Kievan Rus. If Taleworlds intends for Sturgia to be inspired by Kievan Rus, then they need to be consistent with what things are called, how the various troops are named. You don't go around calling teachers 'teacher' in turkish in England do you? Nor do you call mechanics 'mechanic' in russian in Italy. Throwing around words such as Druzhina and Huskarl and Viking without a care in the world is doing precisely that.

The Sturgians aren't the Kievan Rus
For god's sake, get it into your head that this is a fictional bloody world with creative freedom.

This is not a valid argument. Might aswell give the Khuzaits curved swords called "Katanas" while at it because japanese-boos or whatever they're called want an "asian faction" in the game?

You suck at arguing.
Well if the Khuzaits were an East Asian blend of cultures, it would've made sense. They're not though. They're primarily based on Turkic peoples specifically with some influence from other steppe cultures. This makes sense as all steppe cultures borrowed from each other and intermingled.
If you actually bothered to look at the lore before going on a ****-fit you'd see that the Sturgians are canonically a blend of different cultures including Nords and "local tribes" who are presumably based on Slavs.

And the Sturgians are a kievan rus inspired faction where having terminology such as "viking" and "huscarl" doesn't make sense, just like having a "katana" for the Khuzaits doesn't make any sense. And as I told someone earlier in the thread, changing the description of the faction constantly in order to satisfy this and that little group of people with obsessions results in an end result that takes a little bit of everything with no solid foundation to stand on its own two legs, instead borrowing from here and there and end up being nothing but a shallow mess, this is where the Sturgia faction is headed if arguments such as "muh creative freedom" are used to legitimize cheap and lazy design decisions.

Edit: You also really need to calm down, what's wrong with you?

 

[Al_Mansur]

Instead of this mixed faction, I would have preferred what we had in Warband with Nords and Vaegirs, i.e. a Germanic and a Slavic faction.

 

[Androme1]

Instead of this mixed faction, I would have preferred what we had in Warband with Nords and Vaegirs, i.e. a Germanic and a Slavic faction.

Yes, this is strongly prefered amongst us who have standards.

Edit: "Mixed" faction could still have made sense, had they kept to what they told us in the Sturgia blog. With the main faction being influenced by Kievan Rus, with sub-factions within the main factions being influenced by other cultures, such as the Norse and the Finns. Instead of that, they seem to be going in the direction of throwing everything together and mixing it all together.

 

[Scarf Ace]

And the Sturgians are a kievan rus inspired faction where having terminology such as "viking" and "huscarl" doesn't make sense, just like having a "katana" for the Khuzaits doesn't make any sense. And as I told someone earlier in the thread, changing the description of the faction constantly in order to satisfy this and that little group of people with obsessions results in an end result that takes a little bit of everything with no solid foundation to stand on its own two legs, instead borrowing from here and there and end up being nothing but a shallow mess, this is where the Sturgia faction is headed if arguments such as "muh creative freedom" are used to legitimize cheap and lazy design decisions.

Edit: You also really need to calm down, what's wrong with you?

I'm not mad, I'm trying to point out that you're being absurd and whining based on a knee-jerk reaction.
As I already said, the Sturgians aren't exactly like the Kievan Rus, just as how the Vlandians aren't exactly like the Normans and the Empire isn't 100% Byzantine.
Yes, they are inspired by the Kievan Rus, but it's also explicitly mentioned that there are a lot of Nords very high places in Sturgia. Therefore it makes sense to find both Slavic and Nordic words, even though there aren't that many Norse loanwords in East-Slavic languages in spite of the influence.

Yes, this is strongly prefered amongst us who have standards.

Or you could turn that statement around and say that it's lazy to have exact counterpart cultures instead of different blends or entirely unique ones.

 

[Count Delinard]

@Androme ease up on the pyramids, quote only the last person's post.

@Scarf Ace mind your words, further escalation will lead to harder consequences than a verbal warning.

 

[Androme1]

And the Sturgians are a kievan rus inspired faction where having terminology such as "viking" and "huscarl" doesn't make sense, just like having a "katana" for the Khuzaits doesn't make any sense. And as I told someone earlier in the thread, changing the description of the faction constantly in order to satisfy this and that little group of people with obsessions results in an end result that takes a little bit of everything with no solid foundation to stand on its own two legs, instead borrowing from here and there and end up being nothing but a shallow mess, this is where the Sturgia faction is headed if arguments such as "muh creative freedom" are used to legitimize cheap and lazy design decisions.

Edit: You also really need to calm down, what's wrong with you?

Therefore it makes sense to find both Slavic and Nordic words.

Not in the way they're implementing it. A "sturgian volunteer" shouldn't upgrade into a "huskarl". A sturgian doesn't turn into a nord by becoming more experienced in combat. The way this would make sense was precisely the way Taleworlds first introduced the idea in the Sturgia blog: Main faction: Sturgia. Subfactions: Skolderbroda and People of the Forest.

Cultures don't blend the way they're being portrayed to do in this game from what we've seen in Gamescom so far.

@Androme ease up on the pyramids, quote only the last person's post.

The forum infrastructure should be updated if "pyramids" aren't desired. "Pyramids" seem to be forming naturally when quoting other peoples posts.

Do not double post. As for the pyramids read the rules. Delete the previous people's quotes before posting so as to avoid visual clutter.

 

[Scarf Ace]

Not in the way they're implementing it. A "sturgian volunteer" shouldn't upgrade into a "huskarl". A sturgian doesn't turn into a nord by becoming more experienced in combat. The way this would make sense was precisely the way Taleworlds first introduced the idea in the Sturgia blog: Main faction: Sturgia. Subfactions: Skolderbroda and People of the Forest.

Cultures don't blend the way they're being portrayed to do in this game from what we've seen in Gamescom so far.

Actually it makes perfect sense, just as the Housecarl term in England was imported via Danelaw, but the Housecarls themselves weren't necessarily Norsemen or descendants of them.

 

[Androme1]

Not in the way they're implementing it. A "sturgian volunteer" shouldn't upgrade into a "huskarl". A sturgian doesn't turn into a nord by becoming more experienced in combat. The way this would make sense was precisely the way Taleworlds first introduced the idea in the Sturgia blog: Main faction: Sturgia. Subfactions: Skolderbroda and People of the Forest.

Cultures don't blend the way they're being portrayed to do in this game from what we've seen in Gamescom so far.

Actually it makes perfect sense, just as the Housecarl term in England was imported via Danelaw, but the Housecarls themselves weren't necessarily Norsemen or descendants of them.

Imagine a Vlandian quest giver talking to your character in-game:

- "Greetings fellow western european inspired traveller, did your quest go well? Good, it seems you were faster than the воин I sent!"

This is how "loan words" are being used right now, they don't work that way.

 

[jamieroyle]

Spoiler

Cultures don't blend the way they're being portrayed to do in this game from what we've seen in Gamescom so far.

As a game set in a low fantasy setting, I don't necessarily think Bannerlord needs to portray the blending of cultures in an accurate way (even if what we have seen is inaccurate - which I think is debatable. Languages borrow words or phrases all the time on an ad hoc basis (see what I did there...)).

If this make Sturgia uninteresting for you then hopefully/probably there will be a mod that will alter it to your liking, but I think saying that this mix of cultures or words shouldn't happen is going a tad far.

 

[Gurkhal]

Not in the way they're implementing it. A "sturgian volunteer" shouldn't upgrade into a "huskarl". A sturgian doesn't turn into a nord by becoming more experienced in combat. The way this would make sense was precisely the way Taleworlds first introduced the idea in the Sturgia blog: Main faction: Sturgia. Subfactions: Skolderbroda and People of the Forest.

Cultures don't blend the way they're being portrayed to do in this game from what we've seen in Gamescom so far.

Actually it makes perfect sense, just as the Housecarl term in England was imported via Danelaw, but the Housecarls themselves weren't necessarily Norsemen or descendants of them.

This makes some excellent sense to me.

And beyond that, Vikings are popular, so it was a given that they would be thrown into some faction. A Slavo-Norse faction makes sense as I think that in the wider world, the medieval Slavs are not very well known. Better that they get something to pull players from Vikings rather than being overlooked and mostly ignored in favor of the more well-known Normans/Celts/Byzantines/Arabs/Turks. The only other faction that one could potentially throw in the Vikings with, if demanding a historic predecent, would be the Battanians and I feel that would have been a flavourwise overload for one faction. The Celts are already very well known and have plenty of historical information to draw on.

EDITED: And while I may be a bit biased...its nice to see the eastern Norse get some loving. Most of the attention goes to the Norse who went west so some love for those who went east is only fitting.

 

[Scarf Ace]

Imagine a Vlandian quest giver talking to your character in-game:

- "Greetings fellow western european inspired traveller, did your quest go well? Good, it seems you were faster than the воин I sent!"

This is how "loan words" are being used right now, they don't work that way.

That's a false equivalence.
The lore states that Sturgian nobility contains Nords (and other "adventurers"). The Nords have had Huscarls since they were added in OG M&B. Huscarl is a rank and not an ethnonym, and so it makes sense that the rank would find its way into Sturgian society, and is open to any qualified man, especially when the lore implies that it's culturally diverse.

Again, if there's a faction that is inconsistent, it's the Battanians with their berzerkers and falxes and ugly clothes. The Sturgians make more than enough sense.

 

[ArnulfFloyd]

But Aserai will meet same unpopularity as Sarranids because bad reputation of Arabs, Khuzait same and Empire mixed few love Byzies. Sturgia and Battania popular and popular

 

[Gurkhal]

But Aserai will meet same unpopularity as Sarranids because bad reputation of Arabs, Khuzait same and Empire mixed few love Byzies. Sturgia and Battania popular and popular

I think it that this is directed at me? If so, please quote me in the future. If not, well, continue on your way, good sire.

To start with it could well be true that Aserai are unpopular due to the prejudice among the player base. Which is sad as I kind of assume that it will also include other cultures that could be used to bring some extra flavour to the Aserai such as Berbers, Numidians etc. But truth be told I didn't know that the Sarranids were particular unpopular as I assume that the player base was fairly international and not just Westeners. I guess its kind of the same for Khuzits/Khergites.

As for Byzantium I'm pretty sure you're wrong. The Byzantines are not as popular as their western countrymen or the ancient Greeks but there are a fair few Byzantine fans out there. I mean I'm mostly fascinated with the ancient Greeks and switched favoritism from Vlandia to the Empire due to the links to antiquity that the Empire would provide. And yes I know that the Byzantines were Romans but I will always have softer spot in my heart for the Greek speaking Eastern Roman Empire than the Latin speaking Western Roman Empire.

I kind of suspected that Battania were popular, given that Celts seems to be popular, but I didn't know that Sturgia was very popular. Do we know what it is that pulls in player interest? Is it as I suspected that its mostly the Viking aspect to the faction?

 

[Varrak]

on topic: i personally couldn't care less if TW decides to add dinosaurs, since there would be mods to remove them away, just like there will be mods to add kievan rus into the game. It's their game after all.

off topic: its fun to watch the battle in here btw

Spoiler

 

[Scarf Ace]

I would say that the Sarranids have gameplay-related problems that hurt their popularity far more than any prejudice against middle easterners. Their infantry and archers are milquetoast, their gear in MP isn't anything special, etc.
Other than aesthetics they really don't set themselves apart from the rest very well. Their best unit is just a different looking Swadian Knight in practice, but instead of recruiting them in the middle of the map, you have to go to the southern edge.
As for the Aserai, they seem pretty cool in comparison, I think. The desert is a lot less bland now, cultures are more differentiated, there's the inclusion of subfactions, etc.

The Empire are a complicated issue. I think Gurkhal nailed it though. It helps that Byzantine aesthetics are really cool so I think even people who are unfamiliar with them will be drawn to the Empire.