State of the main quest

[Totalgarbage]

Thanks, I cant believe they went live with this mockery of a main quest.

I agree, they should've just made a tutorial of sorts imo. The "main game" is the sandbox mode which also requires more sandbox features like proper diplomacy and especially enhanced character creation where we choose our social standing (Bandit, Default, Trader, Mercenary, Vassal, King) our marital status (the spouse being someone random from the same culture) and number of kids we have (as long as we start the game age 30+).

The campaign definitely needs a refresh - maybe it'll make more sense to do so with Claimants and if we ever get some civil war or faction additions. Within the official Lore there is obvious cultural and political tensions in each Kingdom that I wish we could expose more. On paper, at least, many of the Lords hate each other but that does not affect anything other than some flavor text and your own "head canon".

Added that extra bit since the main story really lacks soul and outside of the family members it's wise to ignore it.

The story should've been a tutorial where you: Do the first tutorial recruitment and battle -> reach tier 1 clan -> get your family back -> complete Neretzes' Folly (maybe decrease the necessary number of Neretzes' Folly stories to 5) -> get the Dragon Banner -> join a barbarian kingdom or an empire faction or form your own faction using the Dragon Banner -> Istiana/Arzagos is conspiring against you by preparing a massive conspiracy army (timed quest) and your actions on the quests (like conspiracy caravan) determine the strength of the conspiracy army -> you are tasked with conquering the settlement where you last saw Istiana/Arzagos (tutorial for offensive sieges) -> Istiana/Arzagos surprise you by appearing outside the conquered settlement, an giga army of conspiracy troops from every culture apperars if you chose empire (or a giga conspiracy army of imperials appear if you chose a barbarian kingdom), besieges the town you just captured while you're in it (with the size of this army depending on how you handled the conspiracy) commanded by Istiana or Arzagos (this can also be a tutorial in siege defence) -> you beat them, capture Istiana/Arzagos, choose to either permanently imprison or execute them (maybe gives you a trait) -> game congratulates you for beating the story, plays the ending cutscene, maybe gives a unique reward and the game continues as a normal sandbox.

 

[RozBritanicus]

Good to hear that you are enjoying your marriage roleplay, but I still want an answer about the story questline.

Thanks, i like the clan system as it not about your character being God you can die, and you can then pick a character normally a son to carry on playing. I was making the remark as some say sandbox isn't as good a campaign because you get a larger starting family in the campaign mode. I personally think the campaign is pretty bad and spoils the flow. Once you declare yourself bannerlord or give it to a faction leader of the faction you're in, you're under attack constantly to the point of it getting boring. I couldn't honestly tell someone its good because i personally don't like the campaign storyline. I could be interesting with some work but as it is no. You could play campaign but just ignore the main quest which would be my advice. The minor side quests protect caravan ect.. are ok they do their job.

 

[murtega]

Since the game is officially released, I’m considering to give the main quest a go, though I’d first appreciate someone who did already to answer something. I know the story eventually puts you in a die or kill war against all 3 imperial factions but what I wonder is what do other kingdoms do meanwhile? Do they wage war against only each other, just chill or play exactly like sandbox? I’d definitely not bother trying it out if other kingdoms just had one day lasting wars against empire and eventually gang up on me.

 

[Dead End]

game congratulates you for beating the story, plays the ending cutscene, maybe gives a unique reward and the game continues as a normal sandbox.

that sounds absolutely absurd. Like “you beat the final boss! Continue?” The story sounds way too grandiose for its own good

 

[froggyluv]

that sounds absolutely absurd. Like “you beat the final boss! Continue?” The story sounds way too grandiose for its own good

Thats why I think a Dynamic End which gives you a very illustrative and creative summary of your legacy either instead or alongside an official endscreen would be more fulfilling. I just dont know if their really just enough interesting things that could occur to make it all that interesting. Ive never played more than the Demo of Shadow of Mordor as its not my kinda combat but the way the game tracks player, enemies and especially the foes strong personalities to create the Nemesis effect is the right direction. Meaty.

 

[Totalgarbage]

Thats why I think a Dynamic End which gives you a very illustrative and creative summary of your legacy either instead or alongside an official endscreen would be more fulfilling. I just dont know if their really just enough interesting things that could occur to make it all that interesting. Ive never played more than the Demo of Shadow of Mordor as its not my kinda combat but the way the game tracks player, enemies and especially the foes strong personalities to create the Nemesis effect is the right direction. Meaty.

I fully agree that this is needed for at least the sandbox after we retire or die. I think that there are many factors (culture, friends/enemies, marital status, companions, traits, etc.) in the game that can help determine a somewhat interesting outro/epilogue for your character.

I do think that only 2 (or 4 depending on whether we created our own faction) story endings is good enough. I mean I don't really expect that much from the story anyways (although the story in VC was imo really good , so it can definitely be done), I think it should've been kind of a tutorial with some lore and unique characters and dialogues.

 

[Bluko88]

Haven't really played the campaign and the main quest for a long, long time now.

Just tested 1.7.0 sandbox with 20 or so hours, saw that gameplay is more robust and not as empty (but still empty if not for the mods ), but the question was raised .. is the story campaign worth it now? Should I even try it out after a year of pause?

Main quest is just as bad as ever, really sad. For the longest time I thought is was just placeholder or really old content, but nope what you saw in 1.7 is it.

Quite frankly it should stop as soon as you get "Dragon Banner" (heard it's not particularly great stat wise either). Then at least the main quest is a decent enough tutorial for newbies.


But the conspiracy garbage... never again.

Yeah let's lock the player's current Kingdom (regardless of status) into permanent war with 3 other Kingdoms, not 1, not 2 - 3. Given how bad the A.I. is, if you don't know what you're doing you are screwed. Even if you do - it's a balancing act of smashing one Kingdom to peace out whilst not letting the other 2 take over all your territory.

And can you form an alliance? Nah. See if you could form an alliance, it might be interesting, because that would be like an actual world war scenario.

2 Kingdoms would be a decent challenge, especially for newcomers, but 3 is going to be overkill unless you're close to ruling the map already. Ah well gives Sadist Ironman folks something. But if you really want to challenge yourself just don't use all the OP builds or recruit exclusively KGs or Fians.


Sandbox is IMO only way to play the game.

 

[redmark]

The campaign seems absurdly difficult and grindy unless you've already established yourself in preparation for it.

But the conspiracy garbage... never again.

Yeah let's lock the player's current Kingdom (regardless of status) into permanent war with 3 other Kingdoms, not 1, not 2 - 3. Given how bad the A.I. is, if you don't know what you're doing you are screwed. Even if you do - it's a balancing act of smashing one Kingdom to peace out whilst not letting the other 2 take over all your territory.

And can you form an alliance? Nah. See if you could form an alliance, it might be interesting, because that would be like an actual world war scenario.

2 Kingdoms would be a decent challenge, especially for newcomers, but 3 is going to be overkill unless you're close to ruling the map already. Ah well gives Sadist Ironman folks something. But if you really want to challenge yourself just don't use all the OP builds or recruit exclusively KGs or Fians.

This is the campaign's one saving grace, I think. Without it, once you get your kingdom established and start to recruit clans, if you're smart with war declarations (be opportunistic, pay temporary tributes rather than lose fiefs, etc.) the game rolls on with the player faction inevitably expanding.

Many people seem (and the quests seem to push you) to trigger the conspiracy section as soon as you've got the banner/formed a kingdom - but there's no need to. You have 20 years to complete that section of the quests. Form a kingdom, get established, grow a bit - then trigger the questline if you need the additional challenge. Or not - it's just a failed quest.

 

[anoddhermit]

This is the campaign's one saving grace, I think. Without it, once you get your kingdom established and start to recruit clans, if you're smart with war declarations (be opportunistic, pay temporary tributes rather than lose fiefs, etc.) the game rolls on with the player faction inevitably expanding.

Many people seem (and the quests seem to push you) to trigger the conspiracy section as soon as you've got the banner/formed a kingdom - but there's no need to. You have 20 years to complete that section of the quests. Form a kingdom, get established, grow a bit - then trigger the questline if you need the additional challenge. Or not - it's just a failed quest.

That makes it suitable for being an optional later game quest for players wanting the added challenge. Not a main quest that the basic tutorial quest should be funneling new players into at the beginning of the game.Sure, there's a certain stage you can hold off on for a long time, if you already know what the situation is, but... if you're playing the game for the first time, you don't. It's a terrible introduction to the game.

Your solution is effectively "skip large sections of the quest by doing them first under less constraint, because you already know the quest is kinda BS". The quest is clearly designed to be started early in the game because part of it is quests to establish your kingdom, it's just not a good design because of the way it ramps up the difficulty extremely and suddenly and with a hefty dose of RNG and tedium.

There's really no need for a separate campaign and sandbox mode at all. You could start in current sandbox style with the option of having a family, and the option of starting the main quest but without the timer.

Ultimately, I just think Bannerlord/Mount and Blade is and should remain a sandbox game at heart, and the main quest angle takes it in a worse direction. We shouldn't need a main quest to make the sandbox mode more challenging or less monotonous, either. I don't want a "campaign mode", I want a sandbox where I can start a campaign or not, on my own time with my own methods. Which is still effectively what we've got, it's just awkwardly split as if the campaign mode isn't just a slightly more limited sandbox mode(pointlessly) they tacked a main quest on which they immediately saddle your character with.

I would also erase the training field and just make all the towns you start near have one you can access by talking to the arena master. Having a single training field out in the middle of nowhere makes no sense.

 

[redmark]

That makes it suitable for being an optional later game quest for players wanting the added challenge. Not a main quest that the basic tutorial quest should be funneling new players into at the beginning of the game.Sure, there's a certain stage you can hold off on for a long time, if you already know what the situation is, but... if you're playing the game for the first time, you don't. It's a terrible introduction to the game.

Your solution is effectively "skip large sections of the quest by doing them first under less constraint, because you already know the quest is kinda BS". The quest is clearly designed to be started early in the game because part of it is quests to establish your kingdom, it's just not a good design because of the way it ramps up the difficulty extremely and suddenly and with a hefty dose of RNG and tedium.

I agree, in terms of design ("... and the quests seem to push you..."). There are bits of nice backstory in some of the clan leaders responses to 'Neretzes Folly', but overall it doesn't add much. The whole things feels more like an example of what might be done using quests to set a story with conversion mods... My comment was really about the gameplay rather than the design. It can be of some value to add something to the late game, though of course the mid-late game needs to be better overall.