Starting as a vassal or a king.

[Bjorn The Dead]

Sometimes in WB, early gameplay is boring and struggling to me which is leveling up your charecter, finding companions, opening up enterprises etc. In some modes and in custom charecter creation mod, you can start as a vassal or even a king.

Ofcourse when we play Bannerlord for the first time, I know everyone will want to start the game as an adventurer. If custom charecter creation would implement into the game, in later I think It would be also appealing option for a lot of players.

We still don't know how the charecter creation of Bannerlord works and how our choices effect the skills. If we think this as in Warband, Custom charecter creation should also have choices which effect your skills and even your level this time. For instance, you can start the game as a level 20 vassal who has 7 ironflesh, 6 pathfinding, 9 leadership etc.

I know this can be moded but in the mods of WB as far as I know, we don't the native's choices and their affect on skills so I want this feature in the native of Bannerlord.

What do you guys think?

 

[lolbash]

I would even go far as to say let us start as a king too.

However, this would be bad for new players of Bannerlord if they immediately start as a king and have no idea what to do, so heres my idea of implementing this feature;

-First time starting a gme: You are not allowed to pick anything but adventurer

-Destroy a minor faction: unlocked ability to choose minor faction vassal or leader

-Destroy a clan: unlock ability to become a clan member

-destroy a faction: unlock ability to become a king or vassal

 

[vota dc]

You start in Empire as a foreigner.

Anyway I doubt they will implement choices that are no choices, they could add negative sides.
For example you start as a lord with a fief, an army and zero money and lot of debts. Your army start deserting, you need money as soon as possible. And you start with quest to repay your debt with other lords.
Or you start as king with negative relation with most lords and cities.
Or you are a king but lost an eye or a leg so some skills are capped.

 

[Bjorn The Dead]

@Rainbow Dash

Good thinking.

@vota dc

Choices in charecter creation is the choices how you want your charecter skills so they are definetly choices. Starting as a vassal with no money doesn't make any sense. I mean you are a vassal, how do you have no money? Relations with vassals in your faction can be tied up to the choices you make when you are creating your character. For instance, you will have bad relation with bad tempered vassals and good relation with good natured vassals depending on your choices.

Yeah whole idea about WB you are a foreigner in the lands of Calradia but that doesn't mean we can not have this feature. If It kills immersion for you then you won't use the future, I mean having this feature will have no affect on your singleplayer gameplay.

Edit: All we need that for being foreigner is that bunch of lines in your story line. For instance, "you were a foreginer in Calradia and landed at shores of Shariz and then you decided to become something.........(bunch of choices)........ Finally, you convinced Sultan Hakim to select you as a vassal". I mean this custom character story line will sum up your early gameplay through and setup your skills by your choices.

 

[wormydowg]

Spoiler

I would even go far as to say let us start as a king too.

However, this would be bad for new players of Bannerlord if they immediately start as a king and have no idea what to do, so heres my idea of implementing this feature;

-First time starting a gme: You are not allowed to pick anything but adventurer

-Destroy a minor faction: unlocked ability to choose minor faction vassal or leader

-Destroy a clan: unlock ability to become a clan member

-destroy a faction: unlock ability to become a king or vassal

Sometimes in WB, early gameplay is boring and struggling to me which is leveling up your charecter, finding companions, opening up enterprises etc. In some modes and in custom charecter creation mod, you can start as a vassal or even a king.

Ofcourse when we play Bannerlord for the first time, I know everyone will want to start the game as an adventurer. If custom charecter creation would implement into the game, in later I think It would be also appealing option for a lot of players.

We still don't know how the charecter creation of Bannerlord works and how our choices effect the skills. If we think this as in Warband, Custom charecter creation should also have choices which effect your skills and even your level this time. For instance, you can start the game as a level 20 vassal who has 7 ironflesh, 6 pathfinding, 9 leadership etc.

I know this can be moded but in the mods of WB as far as I know, we don't the native's choices and their affect on skills so I want this feature in the native of Bannerlord.

What do you guys think?

@rainbow You are practically creating your own problem of boring; The whole game is about the build up.
Adding that option in would completely destroy the replay value, and not because of the feature but because of how people will use the feature.
Which any feature that allows you to skip half the game at the beginning is a bad feature.

If you are too lazy to build an empire, you think you are going to play after your kingdom gets ransacked?
You aren't bound to the character at all, your bound to what he has.
The total opposite of what an realistic Role playing game should  be.

I could see starting off as a wealthy merchant, having one enterprise in your name.

 

[vota dc]

Starting as a vassal with no money doesn't make any sense. I mean you are a vassal, how do you have no money?

You already get the quest to collect the debt and lords pretend not having enough money even if they are honorable, I guess they can have money problem. If their fief is devastated and they still have the upkeep they can have zero money on pocket and debts, they can also waste a lot of money in feast. It means that as a player you can fix this in no time: with you starting army you can plunder a caravan or force farmer to give supplies and sell them, then after you have the money to upkeep the army you can start pay the debt or chose a renegade path and rebel.

Another idea is that you can have a ****ty family, like Michael De Santa, it would be a funny way to balance.

 

[KhergitLancer80]

It should only be available after completing the game as an adventurer once.

 

[kalarhan]

It should only be available after completing the game as an adventurer once.

what is this "completing" thingy? 

As a sandbox you need to define what the goal is, like:

1) become a vassal, level 30, 100k gold -> unlocks [New Game as Vassal]
2) become a king, level 50, 1mil gold -> unlocks [New Game as King]

I disagree tho. You should have a question like "do you want to play the tutorial?" which takes you to storyline and adventurer mode. If you say no, then you can pick between adventurer, vassal, king, and any other mode they come up with it (raider, bandit king, subfaction leader, merchant, ...), not add a restriction based on how long you played the game.

 

[Roccoflipside]

Spoiler

I would even go far as to say let us start as a king too.

However, this would be bad for new players of Bannerlord if they immediately start as a king and have no idea what to do, so heres my idea of implementing this feature;

-First time starting a gme: You are not allowed to pick anything but adventurer

-Destroy a minor faction: unlocked ability to choose minor faction vassal or leader

-Destroy a clan: unlock ability to become a clan member

-destroy a faction: unlock ability to become a king or vassal

Sometimes in WB, early gameplay is boring and struggling to me which is leveling up your charecter, finding companions, opening up enterprises etc. In some modes and in custom charecter creation mod, you can start as a vassal or even a king.

Ofcourse when we play Bannerlord for the first time, I know everyone will want to start the game as an adventurer. If custom charecter creation would implement into the game, in later I think It would be also appealing option for a lot of players.

We still don't know how the charecter creation of Bannerlord works and how our choices effect the skills. If we think this as in Warband, Custom charecter creation should also have choices which effect your skills and even your level this time. For instance, you can start the game as a level 20 vassal who has 7 ironflesh, 6 pathfinding, 9 leadership etc.

I know this can be moded but in the mods of WB as far as I know, we don't the native's choices and their affect on skills so I want this feature in the native of Bannerlord.

What do you guys think?

@rainbow You are practically creating your own problem of boring; The whole game is about the build up.
Adding that option in would completely destroy the replay value, and not because of the feature but because of how people will use the feature.
Which any feature that allows you to skip half the game at the beginning is a bad feature.

If you are too lazy to build an empire, you think you are going to play after your kingdom gets ransacked?
You aren't bound to the character at all, your bound to what he has.
The total opposite of what an realistic Role playing game should  be.

I could see starting off as a wealthy merchant, having one enterprise in your name.

VC had the ability to start as a vassal or king, and while I somewhat agree as far as starting as a king, several of my longest/most successful playthroughs came as starting as a vassal, mostly because I didn't have to go through the killing bandits stage for the 50th time, it gets you right into the action. I see no problem with giving players a way to jump into the meat of the game, especially if this is the second or third or whatever playthrough.

 

[Bjorn The Dead]

@wormydowg

I really understand your passion about gameplay. However, the whole game is not just about build up but also it is about writing your own back story in your mind. Why do we have export-import character option or the cheats within the game provided by TW itself? One time, I was a foreigner vassal who was exiled. Yes I exported him and gave him some stats. Even another time we were a group of exiled cammanders whose mutiny against a dynasty failed. Yes I collected some companions, exported them and gave them some stats. I mean this is why this game is beautiful, not just with building up but also its freedom on your own backstory in your mind.

@Roccoflipside

That is exactly why early gameplay gets boring for me whic is farming those bandits over over and over again for leveling up myself and my companions.

@vota dc

I couldn't understand what you are saying in the first part.

In the last part you are saying you could have a bad family. But why do you have to have a family when starting as a vassal, why does the game have to give you family and take away your choice of a husband or a wife?

Lastly, you are talking about balance while even the mods of WB can do this without problem.

 

[KhergitLancer80]

It should only be available after completing the game as an adventurer once.

what is this "completing" thingy? 

As a sandbox you need to define what the goal is, like:

1) become a vassal, level 30, 100k gold -> unlocks [New Game as Vassal]
2) become a king, level 50, 1mil gold -> unlocks [New Game as King]

I disagree tho. You should have a question like "do you want to play the tutorial?" which takes you to storyline and adventurer mode. If you say no, then you can pick between adventurer, vassal, king, and any other mode they come up with it (raider, bandit king, subfaction leader, merchant, ...), not add a restriction based on how long you played the game.

By saying ''completing'' this was what I meant.
Like if you managed to be a lord in your adventurer campaign, you can start as a lord next time etc.

I think it would be beneficial to have a restriction for the first time players, this would encourage people to play the game more than once.
I mean starting as a king option is good for players who say ''Man I already did a campaign from the start I carried the weights of the early game I dont want to go through all  that stuff again just make me king I just want to conquer lands !''

But if you give that  option directly it may discourage new players to start as an adventurer and make them perceive this option as a challange mode for veteran players rather than the fact that it is the normal game itself.


Players must perceive these modes as a ''quick start for veteran players who dont want to bother with early game challanges like cow herding for peasants again'' rather than ''easy start for new players who are too inexperienced for starting as a noone.''

 

[kalarhan]

Players must perceive these modes as a ''quick start for veteran players who dont want to bother with early game challanges like cow herding for peasants again'' rather than ''easy start for new players who are too inexperienced for starting as a noone.''

I would aggree if Bannerlord was a progressive game type, which I expect/hope it wont be. If they are creating a game where each phase is a interesting game on itself, all they need to do is make that clear on the [Start New Game] screen.

So if you can play a entire campaing as a non-lord and have plenty of stuff to do (either as a merchant, or a mercenary, a bandit, a quest-adventurer, etc), then become a lord is not a requirement, but a decision to move to another type of gameplay (one where you start to worry about factions relations, building base/centers, management, diplomacy, relation with fellow lords, and so on). The king gameplay would another layer.


In short: IMO if the game has plenty of diversity, dont hide it from players. If the main goal/purpose is to become the emperor (paint the map), then hide the option from new players.

 

[KhergitLancer80]

Hmm your viewpoint made me think.
I think it is all about how you perceive things.

Should the game hide its beauty and reveal itself as the player orients and walks to a path or should it reveal all it has to offer from the very start ?

I wouldnt like to see an option to be a raider, be a quest taker, be a bounty hunter, be a Merchant or sth in my starting screen.
I wouldnt prefer my game to have specific lines between proficiencies I would prefer to have it just like irl.

I may be a wealthy lord but as a side job I trade time to time or I am a merchant but sometimes I rob other merchants !

I am a bandit but on the other side of the map I am a bounty hunter !


I think if there are going to be options it should be limited with political ones  such as

-Be an adventurer

-Be a lord (then lord of this faction or minor faction)

-Be a king (then king of this faction or minor faction)


Second, yes you are right M&B is not a progressive game type but there is a progression in the political world of the game and being a lord and being a king are the milestones.

The game doesnt set you any aims like taking over the map but it isnt important, being a lord and being a king are just milestones in the game.
Yes, these milestones arent a must but they are milestones. They can be taken back if you play dumb but they are still milestones because they require tons of work to be reached.


Anyways these are my thoughts on the matter.

 

[vota dc]

Wouldn't scenario like Heart of Iron works better? Scenario would means tougher play than native game: you get big action from the start but you will have more difficult times. Sounds more interesting than just starting with the same map, the same land and you just skipped the part you become lord or king.
They could do a different scenario for each faction:
Battania: you start as king with no castle in the forest. You have a couple of loyal lords that follow you while the other are loyal but in jail. You need to ambush the enemy lords that are pursuing you and then conquer a castle as soon as possible. Relation with village will be very high since you have to liberate your country.
Vlandia: mercenary uprising
Aserai: criminals control your kingdom's economy

@vota dc

I couldn't understand what you are saying in the first part.

In the last part you are saying you could have a bad family. But why do you have to have a family when starting as a vassal, why does the game have to give you family and take away your choice of a husband or a wife?

Lastly, you are talking about balance while even the mods of WB can do this without problem.

http://mountandblade.wikia.com/wiki/Collect_debt_from_lord
That means lords can need loans because they haven't enough money.

The more you get estabilished the less choice you have anyway. If you are a king you already are banned for some thing like disguise yourself in hostile cities: they will recognize you in no time. And probably you are older than a new adventurer and as a king they expect you to have a family.

 

[kalarhan]

Wouldn't scenario like Heart of Iron works better? Scenario would means tougher play than native game: you get big action from the start but you will have more difficult times. Sounds more interesting than just starting with the same map, the same land and you just skipped the part you become lord or king.

scenarios can work for sure, and they can be of value for players less confortable with RPG and strategy games that have a sandbox nature. As a option can live along side the others (not in exclusion of).

It is quite common to see people asking what to do next in Warband, as they cant figure out how to play a game that has no real goals (other than the ones you create yourself).

 

[Horik6697]

You should have a question like "do you want to play the tutorial?" which takes you to storyline and adventurer mode. If you say no, then you can pick between adventurer, vassal, king, and any other mode they come up with it (raider, bandit king, subfaction leader, merchant, ...), not add a restriction based on how long you played the game.

Best solution for this until now. For sure I want to start as an adventurer and build my way up from nothing, but I don't want to limitate players who does not want that.

One way to give the Adventurer option a more "rewarding" gameplay is through achievments, like when you make your oath to a king, when you get the right to use a banner, when you get a castle and etc...

 

[Bjorn The Dead]

@vota dc

That mission doesn't mean anything, It is just a mission for getting exp and getting relation. If that means something in WB, we would have a feature of getting loans from vassals or giving them.

We were banned to disguise ourself in WB when we were a king? No. Expectation of having a family? What npcs expect you to have family? I am confused man. Your  arguments don't make any sense.

scenarios can work for sure, and they can be of value for players less confortable with RPG and strategy games that have a sandbox nature. As a option can live along side the others (not in exclusion of).

It is quite common to see people asking what to do next in Warband, as they cant figure out how to play a game that has no real goals (other than the ones you create yourself).

Exactly.

 

[lolbash]

@rainbow You are practically creating your own problem of boring; The whole game is about the build up.
Adding that option in would completely destroy the replay value, and not because of the feature but because of how people will use the feature.
Which any feature that allows you to skip half the game at the beginning is a bad feature.

Have you actually played the game for long amounts of time like i have?

After your 19th playthrough of warband (modded or not), you get sick of fighting bandits and doing fetch quests for the 70"th time.

Havingg the option to skip grinding and get to the part I actually want to play is actually a way to keep the game fun without stalling the good bits with unfun grinding.

Not only that, but if you read my pist I proposed a solution that makes it so you do not skip half the game as an unknowing newbie.

 

[Roccoflipside]

Hmm your viewpoint made me think.
I think it is all about how you perceive things.

Should the game hide its beauty and reveal itself as the player orients and walks to a path or should it reveal all it has to offer from the very start ?

I'd personally go with the "reveal opportunities as you explore in the game", at least for the first go-around. (one of) My first WB playthroughs (I started a few that didn't go very far before I learned the game) I thought that "Join us against so-and-so faction for a war as a mercenary" was the closest you could get to joining an official faction, then all the sudden they offered me a fief, position, and the ability to carry my own banner and it blew my mind. I was excited and a little proud I had achieved this, since I had had no idea it was even possible. Of course, as I said, later it becomes just another point in the game, a Milestone as you put it, but for that first experience it should be revealed as it happens, at least imo.

As for scenarios, I actually wouldn't be upset if starting as a vassal/king gave you one of a few random scenarios to get a jump-start on your playthrough. Some ideas for vassals: 1) as mentioned earlier, starting as a member of a declining family, few funds and owing some sort of debt that needs to be paid off, whether to the crown or another lord. 2) Starting at war and your fief has just been taken by the enemy. Gives you an immediate rival and goal. 3) Starting as a lord exiled from another kingdom, would give an interesting dynamic to how you're perceived by fellow lords. These aren't the only ideas possible, but I think it could be an interesting dynamic, even if it's a mod or a toggleable option.

 

[Bjorn The Dead]

I wouldn't like the scenarios. When I was talking about custom charecter creation, I meant more general begining like adventurer. It could be something like this:

You were in a caravan working as a foreigner
- mercant(giving you 2 int and 1 cha)[numbers are random]
- bunch of other choices

The caravan was ambushed and you try
- to fight back(giving you 2 str and 1 agility)
- bunch of other choices

After that you want to gain some money and work as a
- mercanary(power strike 2 trainer 1)
- bunch of other choices

In the great wars of Calradia you choose to aid(It is basically choosing your faction)
- Factions

One time, Lord Someone raided a caravan, you choose to(It is defining your relations with Lords in that faction)
- defy him
- help him

I mean you know where this goes.