Siege battle's

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spacecaose

Regular
There been a lot of the threads about this, but something needs to be done about how the Ai work's when it come's to siege battle's. My biggest problem with them are that when the ai armies are attacking a castle, and i'm not part of the siege the defenderss get such a huge bonus it's stupid. I've seen army's of 1000 men lose 80% of their units to castle's with less then 200 unit's defending it. (This work's both way's)

In my current game i'm having to stick close to any major army that is formed so that they don't throw away their troops in a castle siege. I watched the ai enemy army try siege a castle down with like 800 troops, vs 120 and they manged to lose/wound 600-700 of them. They took the castle, but i just destroyed their army straight after. (They didn't even have time or the man power to garrison the castle)

Siege tower's don't really work that's been addressed by several threads, also most ladders have a tendancy to yeet you off for no reason, just as you reach the top causing you to take major fall damage, the ai can just stand on the siege tower and refuse any of troops to go up, because they're just being stabbed at.

The major issue is really the auto-resolve for when their sieging, how has the ai manged to wound (200) troops by the time i get there vs 140 defenders, but i soon as join the battle, we walk away with less then (100) loses/wounded. All i did was afk and get drink and we did 100x time's better.


fecb4efd8568d51207c691e0247fefd0.png

https://gyazo.com/fecb4efd8568d51207c691e0247fefd0

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https://gyazo.com/e3728c3d45c1175d4f6d8600506339c7 (Wounded troops, before i joined)
 
Today I won a siege defense with 210men against 1200 in a town wall lvl 1. Tactic.. You destroy with the insane mangoel their ram, than wait till their tower reaches the wall and destroy it than also. The will now go to the 2 ladders left. Grab the stones from the gate defense and throw them over the wall by the ladders. Each STONE will kill at least 5 in the herd and 5 others will get injured. Repeat this until the stones are no more. Than use your arrows or balistas.. You have time to test now cause they will never overrun your wall with these ladders and your whole infantry is waiting there. Fill your arrows or bolts and finish this. At the end it is not just the auto calc, the ki isnt smart enough on ladders or siege towers in real battles also.


The auto calc has an fortification bonus for the defenders. Simply put it makes a tier 1 unit as strong as a tier 3 unit. We don't have to talk about the maxed noble troops. So when the dice roll for sieging, the defenders have, dependend on the unit tier+ fortification bonus, in 50% the upper hand. When you instead join the battleground(no auto calc) , than the fortification bonus is no more, just the stupid ki of the troops.
 

spacecaose

Regular
Today I won a siege defense with 210men against 1200 in a town wall lvl 1. Tactic.. You destroy with the insane mangoel their ram, than wait till their tower reaches the wall and destroy it than also. The will now go to the 2 ladders left. Grab the stones from the gate defense and throw them over the wall by the ladders. Each STONE will kill at least 5 in the herd and 5 others will get injured. Repeat this until the stones are no more. Than use your arrows or balistas.. You have time to test now cause they will never overrun your wall with these ladders and your whole infantry is waiting there. Fill your arrows or bolts and finish this. At the end it is not just the auto calc, the ki isnt smart enough on ladders or siege towers in real battles also.


The auto calc has an fortification bonus for the defenders. Simply put it makes a tier 1 unit as strong as a tier 3 unit. We don't have to talk about the maxed noble troops. So when the dice roll for sieging, the defenders have, dependend on the unit tier+ fortification bonus, in 50% the upper hand. When you instead join the battleground(no auto calc) , than the fortification bonus is no more, just the stupid ki of the troops.
They have to change they way ladder work, also not sure why siege towers are not just ramps.
 
At wall lvl 1 the siege towers are ramps. But at wall lvl 2 they will switch to siege towers with ladders because the wall is higher. But I m on your side , it should be just ramps. When I'm on the sieging side and my ram gets destroyed.. I can almost reload because ladders and siege towers mean the deaths of at least half of my men. In this situation I grap my axe and finish the first gate alone, with throwing axes it goes even faster(200 dmg a throw on the front gate.. Problem is that you don't have enough ammunition xD)
 
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spacecaose

Regular
At wall lvl 1 the siege towers are ramps. But at wall lvl 2 they will switch to siege towers with ladders because the wall is higher. But I m on your side , it should be just ramps. When I'm on the sieging side and my ram gets destroyed.. I can almost reload because ladders and siege towers mean the deaths of at least half of my men. In this situation I grap my axe and finish the first gate alone, with throwing axes it goes even faster(200 dmg a throw on the front gate.. Problem is that you don't have enough ammunition xD)
Ye it's a big problem, i've also noticed when i'm defending in a castle, the ai only tends to build Ballistas, doesn't even try for catapults. But when im watching a siege from the side line's the ai will mix it up, maybe i'm just unlucky. But it's still weird. Like i said before, it just stupid how many unit's are lost in siege it's the single most effective way to cripple an enemy army. "Unless you spam Khans gaurds"
 

Dabos37

Sergeant Knight at Arms
Today I won a siege defense with 210men against 1200 in a town wall lvl 1. Tactic.. You destroy with the insane mangoel their ram, than wait till their tower reaches the wall and destroy it than also. The will now go to the 2 ladders left. Grab the stones from the gate defense and throw them over the wall by the ladders. Each STONE will kill at least 5 in the herd and 5 others will get injured. Repeat this until the stones are no more. Than use your arrows or balistas.. You have time to test now cause they will never overrun your wall with these ladders and your whole infantry is waiting there. Fill your arrows or bolts and finish this. At the end it is not just the auto calc, the ki isnt smart enough on ladders or siege towers in real battles also.


The auto calc has an fortification bonus for the defenders. Simply put it makes a tier 1 unit as strong as a tier 3 unit. We don't have to talk about the maxed noble troops. So when the dice roll for sieging, the defenders have, dependend on the unit tier+ fortification bonus, in 50% the upper hand. When you instead join the battleground(no auto calc) , than the fortification bonus is no more, just the stupid ki of the troops.

Yes, for me what makes the sieges really easy for attackers in this game is the ram. The few times the AI has managed to destroy my ram, I have started getting massive losses for my army (talking about +level 2 walls).

Hopefully we will see the AI making a smarter use of siege weapons and stones some day.
 

Phwoar

Recruit
Just go the cheap approach, no siege towers at all, position your infantry by the gate outside it, put ALL your archers in a row at one set of ladders, climb half way up with shield out to protect from occasional sneaky archers. Let your archers take out the enemies at the top of the ladder till they sound a retreat, get onto wall, run down to gate (its undefended cause you have no ram). Open the gate, let your soldiers in that are waiting just outside.
 

spacecaose

Regular
Just go the cheap approach, no siege towers at all, position your infantry by the gate outside it, put ALL your archers in a row at one set of ladders, climb half way up with shield out to protect from occasional sneaky archers. Let your archers take out the enemies at the top of the ladder till they sound a retreat, get onto wall, run down to gate (its undefended cause you have no ram). Open the gate, let your soldiers in that are waiting just outside.
When you're in the battle it's not bad, plently of way's to win. It's just the ai when it fight's without you, tend to lose stupid amount of units because of the auto resolve sucking ass. Like how are 150 men keeping at bay an army of 1000? I dunno sometime's they stomp the garrison, sometime's they don't.
 

spacecaose

Regular
Yes, for me what makes the sieges really easy for attackers in this game is the ram. The few times the AI has managed to destroy my ram, I have started getting massive losses for my army (talking about +level 2 walls).

Hopefully we will see the AI making a smarter use of siege weapons and stones some day.
It was the same problem warband had, the only way up was ladders which meant unit's got stuck in a choke and the enemy archer's just abused them. Same thing kinda happens now, the ai come's up the ladder and gets abused by the troops at the top. But when they flood the gate, there is nothing there to stop them just cutting their way through.
 
Problem is not in buff to defenders during siege. Problem is that you dont get same result in actual battle (attacking castles is super easy in comparison to history and simulation that is actually pretty spot on).
 

spacecaose

Regular
Problem is not in buff to defenders during siege. Problem is that you dont get same result in actual battle (attacking castles is super easy in comparison to history and simulation that is actually pretty spot on).
Yes the simulation may be spot on, but it kinda effect the ai when they've lost a good portion of their army in siege attacks for the defenders to come back destroy their army then retake the castle. I'd wait for the ai to lose a good amout of their troops in siege then just whipe their army just before they win.
 

spacecaose

Regular
My approach to sieges is to always destroy the walls, so it's just like a village map
Problem with that is you need high contrustion and a lot of unit's. Since the ai can build siege equipment faster. then me. I tend to lose more men trying to destroy the wall then just assulting it right out.
 
Problem with that is you need high contrustion and a lot of unit's. Since the ai can build siege equipment faster. then me. I tend to lose more men trying to destroy the wall then just assulting it right out.
OK it's old but if your army is big enough and cohesion isn't a problem you build 4 trebuchet. After the first one is finished you just click on it and press on the button "hold in reserve" do it also with the second and the third(be fast after the construction of it is finished). When the 4th is nearly finished get the other three out of reserve and place them them immediately. Now it is just a time problem how fast you destroy their walls
 
Problem with that is you need high contrustion and a lot of unit's. Since the ai can build siege equipment faster. then me. I tend to lose more men trying to destroy the wall then just assulting it right out.
Well sieges are designed to be done in relatively big army (500-1K men) which can provide you with lords that have proper skills and men that can do the construction faster than 100-300 defenders that are generally present in castle / town.
 

spacecaose

Regular
OK it's old but if your army is big enough and cohesion isn't a problem you build 4 trebuchet. After the first one is finished you just click on it and press on the button "hold in reserve" do it also with the second and the third(be fast after the construction of it is finished). When the 4th is nearly finished get the other three out of reserve and place them them immediately. Now it is just a time problem how fast you destroy their walls
A lot of the time i'm not the one sieging tho, it's mostly the ai army's therfor i don't have much control over what they do.
 

spacecaose

Regular
Well sieges are designed to be done in relatively big army (500-1K men) which can provide you with lords that have proper skills and men that can do the construction faster than 100-300 defenders that are generally present in castle / town.
I understand that, but my current guy's role play isn't to be a sieger. Even when i've prioratised the siege trait it's still very slow trying to level it up. It's just easier to form a big army and let the ai take the brunt of the damage. But at least then i can control them, so are losses are minium.
 
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