Russian principalities

[pan-boroda]

Is it necessary to add several Russian principalities into mod ... I think so ... Even after the Mongol invasion of the Russian principalities retained their independence, and other principalities, though being a tribute to the Horde, but pursued an independent foreign and internal policy

 

[Ramathorn]

There was already a big squabble about adding all the little factions that existed around this time, and the end was result was a big no, at least for now.  The game already has 14 factions and it is starting to get a little taxing I think on computers.  If there was a faction for every state that existed, the mod would be extremely sluggish.

My guess would be that we might see some generalized factions meant to represent all of the smaller ones in the area.  Probably a Spanish, Italian, Ottoman, bigger Russian.  But probably not a bunch of smaller individual ones.

 

[pan-boroda]

a small fraction of the Russian principalities ????? that then talk about the Italian principalities, or Germanic countries .......Learn the history

http://newzz.in.ua/uploads/posts/2010-03/1270058535_04.gif - Map of Russia in the mid-13 century

 

[pan-boroda]

If developers are interested in adding Russian principalities in the mod, ready to provide all necessary information .....

 

[Ramathorn]

The map is only so big and it can only hold so many factions.

I highly doubt that they will make 7 Russian states no matter how big, powerful, small, retarded, godly, or whatever else they are.  Additionally, that would require A LOT of research to get lords, ladies, troop types, equipment, cities, etc, etc for each and every one.

If you looked at the new map it has more a lot more area.  Notably a bigger Russia, North Africa, Balkan, Italy, and some Middle East.  And I'm guessing that they will use that space, so that means they probably plan on making a North African, Byzantines, Italians, there was talk about Serbia, Spanish, bigger Mongolian Empire, and a Russian one.  That already is 7 more factions complete with all the necessary additions for each one. 

 

[pan-boroda]

I repeat, all the necessary information on forces, boyars, and the prince I am ready to give. And what sense to add the Mongols, if they already have??

 

[othr]

I realize the Mongols only cared about the tribute and basically let those principalities do whatever they pleased.  It's not so easy to work this in though.  The Mongols would lose all the income and I would have to bundle all those principalities into a single faction which they definitely were not.

I can replace some of the Mongol lords with the leaders of those principalities, not a perfect solution, but it does imitate the fact that they were under Mongol military protection and that they did often provide troops for the Mongols and that they did fund the Mongols.

I would like to have the information you collected for this purpose.  However, I don't think I'm going to add them as independent factions.  As far as I can tell Halych (Ruthenians) was the only principality that had any impact on its neighbours.  I can beef up the Novgorod faction with more towns and villages if you're willing to provide this information.

 

[Slaxipants]

I can understand why everyone wants to add their ideas to the mod, but what I can't understand is why people don't understand the limitations of the engine and ramifications of adding in a huge number of extra nations. I would love the game to be perfectly modelled with all the factions possible, but it would make the game slower and slower, maybe even making it unplayable. Of greater significance than the Russian Principalities is the fact that France was not one sole country at this time, and Wales was more independent, but it is better to gloss over that and take the hit for the benefit of the gameplayability.

Please imagine if you had England, Wales, Scotland, several rival Irish kingdoms, Bretons, Anjevins, Normans (Actually most of that was English anyway, until John ruined it), Burgundians, Castille, Leon, Portguese, Aragonese, Navarrese, Almohads, and I'm not even going to start on the myriad of Italian and Germanic minor states which should be included if it were to be perfectly historically accurate. If you then factor in the requests for more Russian principalities, and in the Balkans the calls for Serbia, Bosnia, Bulgaria, Romania, Wallachia, Byzantines (though I will confess I do think the Byzantine Empire would be the most worthy addition) you reach a potentially huge number of states.

It would be a nightmare, not just for the effort required by the modders, who do a great job as is, but also when you tried to play and it went along at a snails pace.

Don't get me wrong, I would love the game to have all those factions, but it just wont happen so people need to, instead of suggesting new factions, suggesting ways in which smaller factions can realistically be grouped in with larger ones, or combined into one, like France is currently, or I would imagine Spain (Castille) would be (much to the chagrin of Catalans).

 

[Alkiviades]

Please imagine if you had England, Wales, Scotland, several rival Irish kingdoms, Bretons, Anjevins, Normans (Actually most of that was English anyway, until John ruined it), Burgundians, Castille, Leon, Portguese, Aragonese, Navarrese, Almohads, and I'm not even going to start on the myriad of Italian and Germanic minor states which should be included if it were to be perfectly historically accurate. If you then factor in the requests for more Russian principalities, and in the Balkans the calls for Serbia, Bosnia, Bulgaria, Romania, Wallachia, Byzantines (though I will confess I do think the Byzantine Empire would be the most worthy addition) you reach a potentially huge number of states.

At the precise time of the mod, the byzantines were four different factions (although one of them, Trapezous, is only marginally in the bounds of the new map, IIRC) and in the former byzantine area, you could add three more latin states  ... nightmarish indeed. Although at least ONE byzantine state absolutely has to be in this mod, it would be a huge omission not to include them. Nicaea is of course the prime candidate, since it bore the title of the Roman Empire and the two greek principalities of mainland Greece were practically nicaean vassals at this time.

 

[DrTomas]

I can replace some of the Mongol lords with the leaders of those principalities, not a perfect solution, but it does imitate the fact that they were under Mongol military protection and that they did often provide troops for the Mongols and that they did fund the Mongols.

Stocking the garison of towns/castles with Rus Troops might also be a good idea. I somehow doubt, that Mongols provided garrison for them.

 

[pan-boroda]

Naturally, everyone wants to add his faction .... All the necessary information for the Novgorod Republic, and the Galicia-Volyn principality, I present to you .... Also, I gather information for you and the rest of the major principalities - Kiev, Vladimir-Suzdal, Smolensk .... suddenly the mood changed, and you still decide to add a new faction