I do not agree. I find the cartoon voiced by Mark Hamill to be superior.El Duke said:
Re: The Joker
- Thread starter Merentha
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Great_Duke
Grandmaster Knight
Merentha said:
Oh please... I feel like I'm in some Bizarro dimension. You are not actually trying to tell me Mark Hammil is a good actor are you? not alone comparing a ****ty cartoon to a Tim Burton masterpiece...
The two are not mutually exclusive, you know.Skyrage said:
I remain convinced that that film was Burton's weakest, by far. That said, it is still an excellent film, and Nicholson was a good Joker. He just wasn't the best.
Great_Duke
Grandmaster Knight
It can't possibly be Burton's worse. Just think of "Big Fish", "Planet of the Apes" and other atrocities
Maybe it wasn't totally his doing be he picked up Batman's poor, boring and cliched vigilante romp and turned it into something enjoyable. Well...maybe not really ( Batman was still a boring idea) but all that was around him was superb. From the portrayal of Gothan City to the visuals and general feel of the movie ( wich was one of the coolest retro neo-noir stylyzations I've seem ) to, off course, the greatness of the characters ( specially the villains). The Joker, Penguin and Cat Woman were boring concepts...until those two movies turned them around.
Maybe it wasn't totally his doing be he picked up Batman's poor, boring and cliched vigilante romp and turned it into something enjoyable. Well...maybe not really ( Batman was still a boring idea) but all that was around him was superb. From the portrayal of Gothan City to the visuals and general feel of the movie ( wich was one of the coolest retro neo-noir stylyzations I've seem
) to, off course, the greatness of the characters ( specially the villains). The Joker, Penguin and Cat Woman were boring concepts...until those two movies turned them around.Ah. I did forget about "Planet of the Apes."
Merentha said:
I dunno, most portrayals of the Joker tend to overdo the camp. Nicholson on the other hand gave a wonderfully black "off the rails psycho" part to the character.
Great_Duke
Grandmaster Knight
Yeah, I mean...if Nicholson isn't the best joker who is? The surfing Joker from the 60's tv show? 
( and mark hammil voice acting a cartoon doesn't really counts capacho... at least not in a serious discussion)
( and mark hammil voice acting a cartoon doesn't really counts capacho... at least not in a serious discussion)
I agree on that count, I just prefer Hamill's rendition. Part of my objection to Nicholson's Joker was that he wasn't actually playing the Joker so much as himself. Every Nicholson performance is very similar, and I wasn't able to buy that I was watching the Joker, rather than Nicholson. Further, while the Joker was very black, the rest of the movie retained a lot of camp, which left him feeling somewhat out of place. He also had oddly incongruous moments, like the ludicrously long pistol when he shoots down the Batwing. Not necessarily funny, or a joke, just...silly. Hamill, not only avoiding sounding completely like Hamill, was also acting a role that fit the entire production.Archonsod said:
You seem to be saying I greatly disliked Nicholson's performance. I didn't, I thought it was well done. I just liked Hamill's more.
Great_Duke
Grandmaster Knight
I don't know exactly what you mean by "not playing the joker'? I mean, what is the joker? The silly and campy comic bok character you mean?
I never watched the cartoon you talk about, but I bet hammil's interpretation is generic (as all he does). The fact that Nicholson brought something original and unique to the character ( playing himself or not...) should count a lot. It did for most critics and batman fans in that movie. Nothing is unanimous though, off course...
I personally didn't mind all the cannon breaking in the movie ( as I said though, I'm far from a comic book/super hero fan), but in all things I wouldn't mind reinvention if it turned things for the best. Specially if it turned something lame into something great, as was with the joker in this case
.And on a sidenote, Bob Kane ( The guy that created batman, and the joker) personally reccomended Nicholson for the role. That must count for something
I never watched the cartoon you talk about, but I bet hammil's interpretation is generic (as all he does). The fact that Nicholson brought something original and unique to the character ( playing himself or not...) should count a lot. It did for most critics and batman fans in that movie. Nothing is unanimous though, off course...
I personally didn't mind all the cannon breaking in the movie ( as I said though, I'm far from a comic book/super hero fan), but in all things I wouldn't mind reinvention if it turned things for the best. Specially if it turned something lame into something great, as was with the joker in this case
.And on a sidenote, Bob Kane ( The guy that created batman, and the joker) personally reccomended Nicholson for the role. That must count for something
I think Nicholas' rendition is probably the only Joker who had that threatening quality. He actually came across like some kind of demented clown, rather than simply being a clown.
So, you make an argument without even watching one of them.
"Nuh uh, Nicholson's totally better than the Joker I haven't even seen."
"Nuh uh, Nicholson's totally better than the Joker I haven't even seen."
Do you read the comics? His original interpretation had him as a sociopathic killer with a twisted sense of humor. In the very late 40s, he shifted more to a harmless prankster, then back to a more vicious character in the early 70s. It really doesn't sound like you know what you're talking about. You make casual assumptions and rely entirely on your prejudices, as was the case with your idea of Hamill's character. At least learn something before you jump in with misguided righteousness.El Duke said:
Great_Duke
Grandmaster Knight
I'm familiar with the character, but not an expert. Well...I guess you are right though. I just happened to enjoy Nicholson in the role very much and I never seem the cartoon. And I do obviously have prejudice agains't Luke Skywalker's voice acting talent . He did a decent job in a few Lucas Arts adventure games...I will give you that.
. He did a decent job in a few Lucas Arts adventure games...I will give you that.After some finagling, managed to split the topics semi-properly.
Comic books code was a *****Merentha said:
I liked the "Case Study" origins given for the Joker, and Nicholson's portrayal stays true to that (i.e. he was already a sadistic psychopath, the chemical bath simply pushed him over the edge). The other origins (although I think the animated series borrowed slightly from the movie) tend to be a bit too ludicrous for my tastes. I think Hamill's portrayal is rather too flamboyant; his Joker is rather too manic, which doesn't really fit the comic character (I always see him as being more of a genius with a particularly sick sense of humour, something the whole manic showman tends to run contrary to).
QuailLover
Marquis
El Duke said:I'm familiar with the character, but not an expert. Well...I guess you are right though. I just happened to enjoy Nicholson in the role very much and I never seem the cartoon. And I do obviously have prejudice agains't Luke Skywalker's voice acting talent
He was pretty good in the Wing Commander Games.
This is why I'm greatly looking forward to Ledger's performance. He looks like he's nailed the menace, at least to me. At the very least, it should be interesting, especially since I find Bale's rendition of Batman to be infinitely superior to anyone else's.Archonsod said:
Well, not counting West, but that's something wholly different.
Interesting. I prefer the twisted genius concept as well, but I thought Nicholson never got that down. I'll take an excellently done showman over someone attempting to live up to my idea and failing.Archonsod said:
Grunwalder
Knight at Arms
Merentha said:
Indeed.
The Batman comics are my favorite after Iron Man. In the early versions, he was psychotic, like a twisted Jack the Ripper.
Thanks to the general censorship of the comic book industry from the forties into the late sixties they turned him into a literal poofter.
That Joker series in the mid was great. There were nine or ten issues in that series, and I think The Joker offed a few people a few different times in each one. Hell, just look at what he did in Kingdom Come- he murdered the ENTIRE staff present in the Daily Planet building, only to be offed by Magog himself. Classic Joker.
Mean mother****er. Which is what I think Ledger was going for. Even if mediocre, I'll take psychotic and sadistic over neurotic and manic anyday.
Turkish_Bandit
Banned
Ex joker nicholson The Shining' ss
Artizan said:
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