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Poll- Should Crushthrough be removed, adjusted, or stay?
- Thread starter WMorton
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There was this one idea somewhere in this forum which suggested adding crushthrough as a weapon mode in some weapons ( switch to x) which would show in animations and bring certain drawbacks (like only able to strike from above or something). While the details of this are fairly debatable, I do like the notion of it.
Domuka
Recruit
It should stay, but only on weapons that are slow as hell to swing thus allowing a defender a way to get away or attack rather than just spamming defensive stances. The problem currently is that almost all two handers can crush through despite it not being a heavy weapon (that is to say not very slow to swing)
Gone. Entirely.
Every weapon that can crush through is both too fast and too long for balanced gameplay.
That being said, even if Taleworlds made crush through weapons shorter and slower, the sheer amount of s key hocus pocus one can do in Bannerlord (especially with shock classes) still makes it total cheese.
I think in this situation, the simplest solution is probably the best one.
Every weapon that can crush through is both too fast and too long for balanced gameplay.
That being said, even if Taleworlds made crush through weapons shorter and slower, the sheer amount of s key hocus pocus one can do in Bannerlord (especially with shock classes) still makes it total cheese.
I think in this situation, the simplest solution is probably the best one.
Mushbeast
Knight at Arms
There's just straight up no way it can feel good unless there's visible cues that you're about to be crush-through'd and you must be able to dodge it. Even if it's readjusted to happen much less frequently, it's still totally thrown 1vX out the bag and completely changes the fundamentals of combat.
I voted to get rid of it completely, but if it were to stay it needs to be redesigned. Maybe if the first crush-through attack does no damage but you can see the characters block start to tremble, letting you know you have a weak block and could get crush through'd on the next attack. Even then, it just changes so much about the core of combat that we're probably better off without it. It's punishment enough to miss one block from a 2hander, you shouldn't be punished for doing the right block.
I voted to get rid of it completely, but if it were to stay it needs to be redesigned. Maybe if the first crush-through attack does no damage but you can see the characters block start to tremble, letting you know you have a weak block and could get crush through'd on the next attack. Even then, it just changes so much about the core of combat that we're probably better off without it. It's punishment enough to miss one block from a 2hander, you shouldn't be punished for doing the right block.
For the record I think it should be completely removed, but for the sake of discussion do you think it would be a decent idea to make it so that if a swing has enough power or weight behind it that a "perfect block" should be able to parry it? By perfect block im saying the kind where you basically block at the last second, pretty sure that is also the stun block though idk cause i dont use it either enough or conciously
Mushbeast
Knight at Arms
For sure, it'd definitely give you some sort of counter and be better than what it is now, but I personally think that wouldn't go far enough and would still be quite annoying. From the 1vX perspective you're going to have a bad, bad time trying to pull off actives especially if you're getting up-attack spammed from a pack of menavilions or something similar. Then again it could make the fights more dynamic, but that's something testing would have to prove, because I'm still not sold.
keep it,. but only have it for hammers, and have it like warband, where the overhead strike specifically is slower than the others
greedogre
Veteran
you do realise in warband the only hammer with this mechnism is only around 80 reach right?
Aprikosenmann
Knight
Nomatter how crushthrough will be threated I want it to be CONSISTENT and READABLE.
Right now you face three similar looking attacks but you dont know if you
a) just block the hit
b) receive 30 dmg
c) receive 90 dmg
If they make it occur less it might only make it even more random.
How you could make it consistent:
-set a lower maximum damage
-make crushthrough mosty dependend on the range (menavlion hit with the tip) because the speed bonus is not that intuitive to read.
Right now you face three similar looking attacks but you dont know if you
a) just block the hit
b) receive 30 dmg
c) receive 90 dmg
If they make it occur less it might only make it even more random.
How you could make it consistent:
-set a lower maximum damage
-make crushthrough mosty dependend on the range (menavlion hit with the tip) because the speed bonus is not that intuitive to read.
I fear that this will in the end, still make the crush random.
Nothing will solve the crush being random, but at least make it so that you make one type of weapon unique with it.
all hammers have that mechanism, in fact, even some axes had that mechanism
Koso
Squire
Crushthrough should just happen with hammer. Others are just ridiculous like voulgier. This class have insane speed with damage also it have crushtrough. They have to be adjust this thing. Also like Apri's say the crushtrough's damage should more lower and stable, sometimes you can kill someone with one hit.
**Iphicrates**
Sergeant
Agree with opinions that it should work as in Warband. So keep it only for hammers/heavy maces. Warband did it right. Hammers were slow, hammers were short, so you had a chance of winning against them if you knew what you were doing. In Bannerlord omnipresence of crush through makes it ridiculous. Why bother with any tactics other than taking two-hander and swinging it overhead. It almost guarantees success (if not with the 1st hit, than with 2nd or 3rd or 4th, just keep swinging).
One thing that has to be adressed is that all weapons delivering a crushthrough should be slower than one handed weapons. This is just not the case atm. S-keying and spamming overheads works way too easy. Unless the swing speed is adressed we don't even have to discuss "readability" or "reliability".
Alkix
Regular
That was probably me, so I'll restate the idea.
Crush through should be a specifically activatable attack that kicks off a forward moving animation and sound. In fact, let's just call it "power attack". It's obvious, it's loud, and you know it's coming. The counter is to get out of the way or hit them in a "window of opportunity".
Missing a power attack should put the attacker off balance and increase the delay they can block/swing again.
I think the question about this thread is more what weapons it will be applied to as opposed to the actual balancing of the crush.
Should be removed or only occur when you do a built up attack with a lot of strength for hammers & mauls.
What I can't understand is the reason Devs design the current mechanism:
Assume that I am the defender, the current mechanism is:
Both of us stand steady: lower chance CT (it's ok)
Hit with the end of weapon: higher chance CT (it's ok)
I run, you stand: higher chance CT (it's ok)
I stand, you run: higher chance CT (why?)
I don't understand the last one. Shouldn't it be like "I stand, you run, so I am in a stable status, I prevent get CT"?
Might be it's a bug. If so I don't think I will have any opinion before its fixed.
Assume that I am the defender, the current mechanism is:
Both of us stand steady: lower chance CT (it's ok)
Hit with the end of weapon: higher chance CT (it's ok)
I run, you stand: higher chance CT (it's ok)
I stand, you run: higher chance CT (why?)
I don't understand the last one. Shouldn't it be like "I stand, you run, so I am in a stable status, I prevent get CT"?
Might be it's a bug. If so I don't think I will have any opinion before its fixed.
Menavlion is basically some op stick and should not be able to crush through
