new faction rebellions (noble rebellions and peasant revolts)

how should new faction rebellions be implemented? (read before voting!)

  • yes, noble rebellions AND peasant revolts

    Votes: 5 83.3%
  • yes, ONLY noble rebellions

    Votes: 1 16.7%
  • yes, ONLY peasant revolts

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • yes, only under hardcoded circumstances

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • not at all, leave that to mods

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • not at all, not even in mods

    Votes: 0 0.0%

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I believe that a more dynamic world also needs more dynamic factions. In the old Warband, factions that lost their last town/castle usually vanished forever whilst their lords play musical chairs every few days with all the other kings until they get exiled... or somehow become a very powerful and influential landholder - I had a game where Nords and Rhodoks partitioned Swadia early game and Count Grainwad (or was it haringoth?) defected to Rhodoks, and after a few in-game years he outlasted all the other Rhodok lords, even the ones that were there from the very start, gaining vast estates spanning from Veluca to Dhirim, with numerous other towns and castles along the way.

By the time my budding empire managed to finally exterminate the Vaegirs, the Rhodoks had nearly conquered Calradia (the Sarranids clung on to a few castles near Durquba, the Rhodoks steamrolled the Nords and took half the Vaegirs, and the Khergits were somehow still alive and well for some reason, just missing their western half) and by the time it was time to take on the gigantic Rhodok Empire, I marshaled my lords and got together a small army of 800, not bad. I planned to take over a nearby castle, but

then comes along Count Grainwad, nonchalantly strolling towards my army with a force of 1200 men. In ONE party. A massive assemblage of half-Rhodok half-Swadian troops. Seeing that my lords had around 150 men each, the one with the least amount (100?) started to run away, which decreased my army to 700, so the rest of my lords started to run away one by one, and in the end, it was just my crappy retinue of 100 various assorted heavy cavalry (gotta keep that upkeep low yknow) against literally the most balanced army composition that exists in the game, even if used by AI.

Now I wonder, Count Grainwad had about as much land (and soldiers!) as the Rhodoks start with. I thought, what would happen if instead of just defecting to another faction if he gets pissed at King Graveth, Count Grainwad declared his independence as a sovereign king (all hail king grainwad! :party:) and could persuade his friends over to his new kingdom, just like the player? It would certainly make endgame more interesting, as new factions can rise out of both the ashes and an existing, declining empire.

I think something like the following would work. Factions that rise 'from the ashes' can be very discontent lords (of the same culture) that have had their former faction completely conquered by what they perceive as an illegitimate ruler, and band together to rebel and try to either install the former king as the king of the new rebellion... or the member with the most renown if they really don't like the old king. So the old factions can never really 'die' out as long as there's at least 1 lord of that culture that hasn't been exiled.

Meanwhile, factions that rise out of an existing empire could be like Count Grainwad's case where a king pisses off a major lord and risks him either pledging his allegiance to another king if they think they would be instantly rushed the moment they rebelled, or declaring independence and creating a new upstart faction if they're strong enough. 'Strong enough' should mean that the lord rebelling controls at least 1 town or 3 castles AND at least 1/3 the strength (in soldiers) of the existing faction. The rebelling lord should be able to persuade his friends in the old faction to join him by either appealing to friendship (if friend is landless only works with BFF's) or giving them fiefs.

Now, peasant revolts. There are a few mods and bugs that allow towns and castles to 'declare independence' and be controlled by bandits, but they don't act as regular factions and can't attack or field any armies whatsoever excluding their garrison, meaning that their villages are completely defenseless. Only towns should be able to declare independence as castles are military settlements. This could work with villages, but they wouldn't really be able to become a sovereign nation, so maybe a small stack of peasant rebels (mostly farmers and lowtier mercs) spawns from the village attacking passing caravans. Maybe they will somehow amass enough troops to take over a castle, who knows? :wink:

Towns should rebel if they are of a different culture than the faction occupying them. (Sargoth occupied by Vaegirs) The chance of revolt should decrease if the settlement likes you and increase if it hates you. Perhaps a 0.1% chance to revolt every day, meaning a ~3% revolt chance every month, or something like that. Make the chance low enough so that conquest isn't impossible, but make it high enough to make conquest risky. After being occupied for a few years (2? 3? 5?) the chance of revolt disappears as people get used to the new ruling faction.

Now what happens when a revolt does fire? It spawns an army outside the settlement in question, comprised of troops of the culture of the town, with quality (t2-t4) and numbers (200-500?) varying with town prosperity (richer = more dangerous rebels) and half of garrison troops of the town's culture automatically join the rebel army. (20 nord warriors garrisoning Vaegir-occupied Sargoth, 10 of them stay loyal and 10 of them join the rebelling army) It is leaderless, but sieges the town and assaults as soon as possible. If it succeeds, it establishes a new faction called "Kingdom of (Town Name)" if the main cultural faction doesn't exist, otherwise it defects to the main cultural faction. If it establishes a faction, it creates a random dude as king ruling the town, with other random dudes, 1 for each attached village.

Please feel free to criticize and suggest! I don't have time to flesh out the details too much :grin:


Master Knight
Pretty cool ideas! Not sure how much is going to be able to make it into native, but hopefully modding would be able to add a lot of this in. I've often considered similar ideas, especially as lords can have children and die. It'd be awesome to take over a kingdom by killing the old King, and have his children try to overthrow you in return. Some real war of the roses (historical war, not the game) **** going on.
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