NE Sieges & Scenes Pack - get a second ladder for your sieges! 9th Jan. 2013

[Harmonica]

Missed this thread when it started but is there any reason Smarmellows mod isn't being used? I installed it with NE and it works fine as far as I can tell.

 

[Eggy Baby!]

Hey guys, I just tried this for NE Warband and it actually works, although it says its for M&B. It adds two ladders to castles etc. and it doesn't seem to crash at all:

http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?topic=57569.0

 

[Lord Samuel]

Missed this thread when it started but is there any reason Smarmellows mod isn't being used? I installed it with NE and it works fine as far as I can tell.

Does it? I tested it, and also Carnivorious, and although it's really a nice job, we found it was glitchy at least in some places. Plus, Smarmellows apparently added up to 3 ladders, and even a 2nd line of walls in some scenes, which is, as far as I'm concerned, a bit over the top. We prefer simplicity.
But Smarmellow's work is a very fine one, and interesting. Only, we felt it was too much for Native Expansion.

Finally, I must add that we don't only add ladders. We also add Sieges shields and decorative Siege camps and stuff.
Sometimes, when the scene looks a bit dull, we even add big fires, light and smokes. Or ships, if we are near the sea.

All that you can see, of course, in the opening post's screenshots.

 

[Lord Samuel]

Hey guys, I just tried this for NE Warband and it actually works, although it says its for M&B. It adds two ladders to castles etc. and it doesn't seem to crash at all:

http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?topic=57569.0

Well, the problem is that it lacks the new sceneries created and those re-designed for Warband (like the whole Sarranid kingdom, but also sieges scenes like Praven's AFAIK), and more importantly, all the new items (like ships and tents, and many other stuff).
Plus, I reckon some places have had their terrain file modified as well, which can cause very important glitches, when you apply old data on them (for example: a castle buried in the ground).
BUT I must confess, now, that I didn't tested that old L&R pack extensively in Warband, so if it works for you, very well!...

Maybe we've been lacking pre-strike reflection and testing, I don't know, but anyway, Carnivorious and I decided that it would be *hm* simpler to make up our own, new, complete Siege Pack for Native Expansion.
Ach.

 

[Lord Samuel]

Updates:

Dhirim

Spoiler: Dhirim

Added quite a lot of Siege shields in that Dhirim scene.

Uxhal

Spoiler: Uxhal

Uxhal has One of the fugliest siege scenes in Vanilla Native. Just added one ladder, though.

Suno

Spoiler: Suno

Suno already had 2 ladders. But I had to move Entry Point so that the attacker's army actually take the 2nd ladder.

Praven

Spoiler: Praven

My god, Vanilla Praven is AWESOME as it is.
Was it like this in Mount&Blade ? I can't recall.

So, although I added a few decorative ships and stuff, I'm still very reluctant to add a new ladder to that one siege scene.
I think Praven looks like a huge, impregnable fortress, and I suppose it should stay that way.
Isn't it the old Calradic Empire's capital?

What do you think?

 

[Eggy Baby!]

Was it like this in Mount&Blade ? I can't recall.

Nope it wasn't.

I was testing that mod I posted up from Lords and Realms and the AI appear to use/defend the ladders pretty well, but there is obviously the problem with there being no Sarranid changes. Plus, I haven't tested out Praven but two castles up in the Vaegir territories are fine so far.

 

[Eggy Baby!]

Actually, scratch that. Jeirbe Castle is in mid-air 

 

[Lord Samuel]

Actually, scratch that. Jeirbe Castle is in mid-air 

Thank you for testing
So, Lords&Realms old Siegepack is now officially outdated.

 

[Carnivorious]

Actually, scratch that. Jeirbe Castle is in mid-air 

Thank you for testing
So, Lords&Realms old Siegepack is now officially outdated.

Say Sam, did you already do Grunwalder? (That's rhodock right?)

I'm currently being kept off mount&blade by my other hobby: Drawing. Here's what I'm working on:

So, I try to do as much as possible, but this drawing has me 'pinned down'

 

[Lord Samuel]

Say Sam, did you already do Grunwalder? (That's rhodock right?)

Yeah... I did. I'm sorry. I know it's Rhodok. You can do it also, if you wish. 

I'm currently being kept off mount&blade by my other hobby: Drawing. Here's what I'm working on:

Spoiler

So, I try to do as much as possible, but this drawing has me 'pinned down'

That is neat! I believe it's a Fox. I see you like to draw detail by detail. I tend to use the global approach. You know, first draft, second draft, then the small details, and then the shading. I'm too impatient. I want to have an immediate preview of the result. It's less artistic, though, and sometimes the sketchy parts remain on the final drawing.

 

[Carnivorious]

That is neat! I believe it's a Fox. I see you like to draw detail by detail. I tend to use the global approach. You know, first draft, second draft, then the small details, and then the shading. I'm too impatient. I want to have an immediate preview of the result. It's less artistic, though, and sometimes the sketchy parts remain on the final drawing.

I do, sometimes it's annoying but it pays off when you manage to capture the exact emotion you're looking for in the eyes. This one I drew your way:

Spoiler

Though, let's get back on topic

 

[Lord Samuel]

Yeah, back on topic. Carnivorious, don't think I haven't noticed how you tricked me into off-topic... again

I've "finished" The Nord Siege scenes.


NORD

Hrus Castle, well, I decided it was too difficult to change anything for now. Just replaced standrad trees by Pines. I might go back on this later.

Spoiler: Hrus Castle

Knudarr Castle

Spoiler: Knudarr Castle

Tehlrog Castle has a particularity: the trees are hardcoded in the terrain (!). Meaning you can't remove them. Weird.

Spoiler: Tehlrog Castle

Curin Castle, now has a nice siege camp, complete with its fog of war.

Spoiler: Curin Castle

Alburq Castle was too small to add another ladder on another wall. So I put the 2 ladders side by side, creating a kind of very large ladder.

Spoiler: Alburq Castle

Jelbegi Castle was a difficult one. Ladder n°2 is ignored by the Attackers. Don't know why, tried everyting.

Spoiler: Jelbegi Castle

Tihr, originally a wooden castle, was remade to match the complete redesign of its Town Center (I created a fortified harbour, using mostly stone walls). Too bad there's no beach in that scene.

Spoiler: Tihr

Sargoth's walls were extended. Because Sargoth, capital of the Nord, can't be a small wooden castle. Also added a river, a bridge, a few village houses.

Spoiler: Sargoth

Wercheg

Spoiler: Wercheg

 

[Pellagus]

This is incredible stuff, thanks for all your hard work!

 

[Lord Samuel]

I received this PM from sapped, which I allow myself to reproduce here, since I think the discussion and remarks could benefit everyone interested in this project.

hey there Lord Samuel

I have been following u guys' work for some time now and I wanna give a HUUUGGE thanks
to u and Carnivorious for u guys' hard work on the project!!! especially the testing, which u
mentioned is really painful to do, therefore I wanna give another big thanks for all ur hard
work!!!

I have seen some of the screens u posted and they look absolutely amazing!!! it adds so
much to the gameplay. no longer does everyone have to stand on one crowded ladder!!!
I have always used the siege pack addon for original M&B and I just can't believe a mod
like this hasn't even been made lol.

Thank you, sapped, although you should know that there are already some Warband SSPs (Siege Scenes Packs) out there, like Smarmellow's, which is quite fine. The difference between Smarmellow's Pack and ours being that we will try to make a "lighter" version of his scenes, since he added quite much, like double walls in City Sieges, etc.

However there are a few things I'm really concerned of, some of the scenes u decided not
to add extra ladders, like those with siege towers included or scenes like Praven. I really
think u shouldn't do it this way, as I always thought the main objective of this mod is to make
the siege battle less crowded with large battle size!!!

Although I like what u had in idea with those, the actual gameplay can be very different, Siege
towers can still get crowded very easily , and city sieges like Praven will be even more frustrating especially
with mods featuring gunpowders like Eagle and the Radiant Cross. The Siege Pack mod for original M&B added
extra ladders to all scenes even if its already siege towered, and it works out perfectly. Battles will also be more
epic and fluid with less frustrations this way.

Okay, I will look into adding ladders to Siege-Towered Scenes.
Praven will be more difficult, but I'll try.

Also about the scene props like siege camps, I really like how it looks and all, but I would still suggest
not to include them, siege performance are already pretty demanding for many even on high end systems, adding
those extra props can really effect the gameplay performance, like the fire effects, all the extra model polygon
that the CPU need to load in etc. And also people won't really notice it in battle cos they are usually busy fighting,
the archer AI won't use the siege shield for cover, so I really don't think it should be included.

U can also think about it this way, no one would build their siege camp this close to the besieged castle, with this
distance archers on the wall can literally shoot over the tiny little barracade and kill anyone thats in the siege camp
without problem, a few volleys and they will be dead, so there's not much sense in it. Also u should consider cultural
differences, Eg. the Khergits uses Mongolian style Yurt, not those square tents, and it also wouln't be making much
sense that Nords use these European style tents as well, so I think its much better not to include them.

I know this is probably very different from what u have in mind but I think this will work out better, So I really hope
that u can do it like this. If not, I really hope that u can make a simplified version with just extra ladders added, it
should be easier for u then when the mod is already released as u can just move the ladder over to the simplfied
version.

I understand your remarks about siege camps props.
Maybe we will release a 'lighter' version after the SSP is completed, with less smokes and fires and siege camps.
About cultural differences (european style square tents), it's true. But you could also say that the Besieging army has adapted to local techniques? All factions, except maybe Khergits, would naturally use them, anyway (including Sarranids). Normans also know what a tent is in the year 1257, in my opinion!

Anyway, I wish u guys the best of luck on this project, the whole Warband Community will be greatly benefited by u
guy's actions.

PS. Is it possible for 2 ladders to be facing the same way in some scenes, I don't know how to describe it but I think
it looks kinda wierd when they are diagonal to each other

Yeah, diagonal ladders. I chose this option only in very small castles (with only 1 wall facing the Besieger), whenever I felt that there wasn't enough slot space anywhere else to lodge the extra ladder without shrinking it to fit the non-destroed crenels and embrasures.
If I didn't, the scenes would also have looked kinda weird, with the 1st ladder arriving naturally on the destroyed battlement, but the 2nd ladder arriving on a much higher level, onto the non-destroyed part of the wall.
Then one would have wondered why the Besieging Army had even bothered to make a single hole in the battlement at all in the first place.
This also kind of apply to Siege-Towered Scenes as well... Why an army would have ever built a siege tower if ladders could be easily deployed somewhere else?
I know it looks kinda weird, though. I'll try to avoid that situation whenever I can.

Thank you again for your remarks and suggestions ! They are very much helping.

 

[Lord Samuel]

I've finished the Vaegir Sieges.
Maybe I'll come back to it later, following suggestions made by sapped in this thread.
I'm now attacking the Khergits.

VAEGIR

Bulugha Castle

Spoiler: Bulugha Castle

Jeirbe Castle

Spoiler: Jeirbe Castle

Ismirala Castle

Spoiler: Ismirala Castle

Radoghir Castle

Spoiler: Radoghir Castle

Dramug Castle

Spoiler: Dramug Castle

Nelag Castle

Spoiler: Nelag Castle

Yruma Castle

Spoiler: Yruma Castle

Slezkh Castle

Spoiler: Slezkh Castle

Rivacheg

Spoiler: Rivacheg

Curaw

Spoiler: Curaw

Khudan

Spoiler: Khudan

Reyvadin

Spoiler: Reyvadin

 

[Pellagus]

Those look fantastic! Really impressive stuff, I love the gatehouse across the river at Khudan and the burning buildings.

 

[Lord Samuel]

Thanks, Pel! Glad you like it! It took me quite some time to test!

And now, the Khergits. Except for a few ones, I barely added anything to the scenes, this time.

KHERGIT

Sungetche Castle

Spoiler: Sungetche Castle

Tulbuk Castle

Spoiler: Tulbuk Castle

Distar Castle

Spoiler: Distar Castle

Asugan Castle

Spoiler: Asugan Castle

Malayurg Castle

Spoiler: Malayurg Castle

Uhhun Castle

Spoiler: Uhhun Castle

Unuzdaq Castle

Spoiler: Unuzdaq Castle

Ichamur

Spoiler: Ichamur

Narra

Spoiler: Narra

Halmar

Spoiler: Halmar

Tulga was moderately modified (added a gatehouse, a few buildings, extended the wall system for scenery purposes).

Spoiler: Tulga

 

[soulmata]

This is pretty awesome stuff. I like the extended scenes as well. It makes me fantasize about future versions where you could have actual siege equipment with you on the battlefield.

 

[Lord Samuel]

Thanks, soulmata.

I have a question about Siege-Towered scenes:
I realized yesterday that adding a ladder to a "Siege Tower" scene could lead to cheat.
Indeed, when there is a ladder on the walls, if you don't tell your troops anything, they will hold ground till the moving tower is at destination. That's their standard behaviour.
But if you order your troops to "charge", they will run to the ladder immediately, ignoring the moving tower (except for the 6 soldiers assigned to it).

That pretty much breaks the purpose of the Siege Tower, and makes a dull scene.
Doesn't it?

So... What do you think?
Should I continue to add ladders in Siege-towered scenes?

 

[horiacodrea]

I think that siege tower scenes should remain unchanged. They offer an alternative way for siege assault and defence.