Multiplayer Combat

[Randaethyr]

I have a serious question.

How the hell do you jump up in the air and swing a 25 pound two-handed axe faster than I can swing a 5 pound one-handed sword?

This has befuddled me, it is making me feel as if I wasted 30 dollars on multiplayer because it feels like I am not getting any kills at all and everytime I get into melee range some guy with a giant heavy axe  jumps up in the air and kills me in one swing while I can't even swing a one handed sword fast enough to hit him once.

 

[Archonsod]

Block his swing, then hit him while he's recovering from the jump. He can't block then.

 

[guilemaster]

I have a serious question.

How the hell do you jump up in the air and swing a 25 pound two-handed axe faster than I can swing a 5 pound one-handed sword?

This has befuddled me, it is making me feel as if I wasted 30 dollars on multiplayer because it feels like I am not getting any kills at all and everytime I get into melee range some guy with a giant heavy axe  jumps up in the air and kills me in one swing while I can't even swing a one handed sword fast enough to hit him once.

bold
bahahahahha! 25 pound axe?! cut off 20 of those for accuracy, maybe more.

 

[Randaethyr]

I have a serious question.

How the hell do you jump up in the air and swing a 25 pound two-handed axe faster than I can swing a 5 pound one-handed sword?

This has befuddled me, it is making me feel as if I wasted 30 dollars on multiplayer because it feels like I am not getting any kills at all and everytime I get into melee range some guy with a giant heavy axe  jumps up in the air and kills me in one swing while I can't even swing a one handed sword fast enough to hit him once.

bold
bahahahahha! 25 pound axe?! cut off 20 of those for accuracy, maybe more.

My point being that a two handed weapon is heavier, requiring two hands clearly, how does one swing it twice before his opponent can swing a far lighter weapon even once?

 

[Archonsod]

They're a couple of pounds heavier on average. You're swinging with both arms rather than one.

 

[doomsayer]

Twohanders are mostly as fast as one handers because you use two hands.
When you have a shorter weapon you should always block the first strike. Probably the second also since your parry takes a while when the attack is strong enough. It's not an easy thing, but you can go to autoblock servers or use a shield.
Also, if attacks are coming to fast for you to react, look at your ping. < 100 is ok, > 100 is bad.

 

[Randaethyr]

So pretty much there is no disadvantage to a two handed weapon?


The best equivalent I could think of to this situation for me is:

Two people with the exact same level of strength and speed are standing 10 meters apart, one has an M4A1 weighing approximately 6 pounds loaded while the other has an M240B which weighs in at ~20 pounds unloaded. Both are holding their respective weapon at the low ready, who do you think is going to draw down on the other first?

That is why this has confused me. Maybe I am just not used to the game mechanics then.

 

[Randaethyr]

Twohanders are mostly as fast as one handers because you use two hands.
When you have a shorter weapon you should always block the first strike. Probably the second also since your parry takes a while when the attack is strong enough. It's not an easy thing, but you can go to autoblock servers or use a shield.
Also, if attacks are coming to fast for you to react, look at your ping. < 100 is ok, > 100 is bad.

My ping usually never goes higher than 50.

 

[Archonsod]

So pretty much there is no disadvantage to a two handed weapon?

Depends on whether you consider an arrow in the face to be a disadvantage or not. They also do less damage if the opponent is too close, at least with longer reach weapons.

 

[Ischenous]

The disadvantage to two handers is that you tend to get more ranged attacks coming at you. There isn't usually a melee disadvantage, except when you have a tight space or the lack a shield, obviously. Well, I guess that since most two hander users can't block is an advantage when facing them. You just need to dodge or block the first hit (or second sometimes, there is a block stun when blocking heavier weapons).

 

[doomsayer]

Also something to note: When you have been hit you have to block the next attack usually.

 

[kingofnoobia]

So pretty much there is no disadvantage to a two handed weapon?

It has already been said - the lack of a shield. Tends to get you shot. In melee combat, the disadvantage depends entirely on your own skill at directional blocking. If you can't block, don't pick a twohander. If you can, grab one with you.

The best equivalent I could think of to this situation for me is:

Two people with the exact same level of strength and speed are standing 10 meters apart, one has an M4A1 weighing approximately 6 pounds loaded while the other has an M240B which weighs in at ~20 pounds unloaded. Both are holding their respective weapon at the low ready, who do you think is going to draw down on the other first?

That is why this has confused me. Maybe I am just not used to the game mechanics then.

The analogy isn't really relevant. An axe would typically not weigh much more than a sword, really. The difference is that it is unbalanced. You can lift an axe with the same effort as a sword, but you can't swing it properly with one hand. You need both hands, preferrably spread out along the shaft to be able to swing it. But if you have both your hands on the shaft, it won't be much slower than a sword. A twohanded sword is generally faster than a onehanded sword. Not sure about axes. The difference would be minimal, I believe.

 

[darkhorse]

My point being that a two handed weapon is heavier, requiring two hands clearly, how does one swing it twice before his opponent can swing a far lighter weapon even once?

Please don't exaggerate. The fact is if you are fighting someone with a longer weapon than you you will need to block them once as you approach them, likely more if they back up as they swing. One handers do tend to be a tiny bit faster than two handers, but because your opponent can out-range you he will be able to hit you first. If you block his blow and immediately swing back once you hear the block, you should get a hit provided you are close enough. I would highly suggest watching reapy's tutorial video, which is stickied on this forum, it explains quite a bit.

Also: you are going to suck horribly when you start at multiplayer. This is a fact, it is unavoidable. The combat in this game takes a lot of practice when you are fighting against players, particularly experienced ones. My advice is to focus a lot on learning manual block, and also try out archery and horse combat. Duel servers are great for practice, just make sure to read the rules for them. One of the most important things is to not get frustrated and learn to laugh at your 1:43 kill/death ratio. 

 

[bubble]

I have a serious question.

How the hell do you jump up in the air and swing a 25 pound two-handed axe faster than I can swing a 5 pound one-handed sword?

This has befuddled me, it is making me feel as if I wasted 30 dollars on multiplayer because it feels like I am not getting any kills at all and everytime I get into melee range some guy with a giant heavy axe  jumps up in the air and kills me in one swing while I can't even swing a one handed sword fast enough to hit him once.

The dmg output especially is not balanced, whereas you die with just one hit from his 2h your 1h stabs to his haert just make him giggling, you need just several hits to the body. Be prepared that a good player will block your melee attack from your 1h after you got hit from him, so you need to learn to block aswell if you play on manual blocking servers. 2h Swords are really fast also in real life, not sure about the weight of 2h Axes and the swing speed but should be not that fast like you do with a sword probably.

Make sure you play on official cheat protected servers and not some kind of cracked servers, speedhacks are otherwise possible and not much noticeable if they set it too low. You will probably notice a lot more problems/balance issues/bugs/exploits with other weapons in the game in multiplayer, its not perfect but can be fun for a while.

 

[Randaethyr]

I have a serious question.

How the hell do you jump up in the air and swing a 25 pound two-handed axe faster than I can swing a 5 pound one-handed sword?

This has befuddled me, it is making me feel as if I wasted 30 dollars on multiplayer because it feels like I am not getting any kills at all and everytime I get into melee range some guy with a giant heavy axe  jumps up in the air and kills me in one swing while I can't even swing a one handed sword fast enough to hit him once.

The dmg output especially is not balanced, whereas you die with just one hit from his 2h your 1h stabs to his haert just make him giggling, you need just several hits to the body. Be prepared that a good player will block your melee attack from your 1h after you got hit from him, so you need to learn to block aswell if you play on manual blocking servers. 2h Swords are really fast also in real life, not sure about the weight of 2h Axes and the swing speed but should be not that fast like you do with a sword probably.

Make sure you play on official cheat protected servers and not some kind of cracked servers, speedhacks are otherwise possible and not much noticeable if they set it too low. You will probably notice a lot more problems/balance issues/bugs/exploits with other weapons in the game in multiplayer, its not perfect but can be fun for a while.

I'm 100% sure it's my lack of experience in multiplayer and not a hacker or cheater.

But thanks for all the answers, going to try it again after I eat some dinner.

 

[RaVeN]

People who trained with their weapons, even two handed unbalanced axes, could swing four times in just 2 seconds. Get over it. Not everyone back then or now are weaklings like you. Of course, by assuming that a two handed weapon, such as an axe that weighed no more than 5 pounds is heavy does make you sound like a weakling.

 

[Randaethyr]

People who trained with their weapons, even two handed unbalanced axes, could swing four times in just 2 seconds. Get over it. Not everyone back then or now are weaklings like you. Of course, by assuming that a two handed weapon, such as an axe that weighed no more than 5 pounds is heavy does make you sound like a weakling.

Oooh ad hominem. Thanks for that unnecessary reply, but you are more than welcome to meet me at my gym if you live in the Central Florida area and we can step into the ring.

I'm getting ready for a fight in a month and could use the extra meat bag to beat on.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

I'm pretty sure one-handed swords are faster than two-handed axes. If you feel slower, it's probably because of your timing, or because longer weapons usually strike first. Regardless, if you block an attack, you'll get a chance to counter (assuming no ridiculous block-stun).

People who trained with their weapons, even two handed unbalanced axes, could swing four times in just 2 seconds. Get over it. Not everyone back then or now are weaklings like you.

You don't need strength training to use weapons like these.

 

[Randaethyr]

I'm pretty sure one-handed swords are faster than two-handed axes. If you feel slower, it's probably because of your timing, or because longer weapons usually strike first. Regardless, if you block an attack, you'll get a chance to counter (assuming no ridiculous block-stun).

Yeah, it's just the game mechanics I'm not used to yet, I'm going to get back on shortly and try some more.

 

[Hatonastick]

Also: you are going to suck horribly when you start at multiplayer. This is a fact, it is unavoidable. The combat in this game takes a lot of practice when you are fighting against players, particularly experienced ones. My advice is to focus a lot on learning manual block, and also try out archery and horse combat. Duel servers are great for practice, just make sure to read the rules for them. One of the most important things is to not get frustrated and learn to laugh at your 1:43 kill/death ratio. 

Ok, this and especially the bit in bold.  I just started playing multi-player a day or so ago and ended up towards the bottom end of the kill table and would maybe get one kill per 5-20 deaths (depending on the match type, ping time and my opposition).  I think I am getting better, but it's a slow process.  Some of these guys are awesomely good and they will walk all over you no matter how hard you try as a 'newbie' -- until things start to click.  What I do suggest though is you learn to mix things up.  Losing a lot?  Try changing class or equipment.  I've spent a lot of time trying different equipment out to find what works for me.

Tips from a newbie for other newbies:

- Like the guys say, learn to manually block.  If you don't master that you probably wont have much success taking on the better players.  I haven't mastered that, in fact I've barely started.  I'm getting a few kills, but mostly my current method is a dead-end street as any decent player will still walk all over me -- reason being they just hammer on my shield till it breaks and then kill me with ease because I can't block properly.  Still I honestly think getting your confidence up by getting the occasional kill while using a shield is better than trying to play the game learning to manually blocking right from the start as getting zero kills can really put a dampener on your enthusiasm.  Really how you feel about that has more to do with the person playing.  I lack confidence so need a bit of a boost before I step towards the harder to master things.

- Make sure the server you are playing on has less than 100 ping time.  I played a few matches where mine was almost 300 and I can say that it was nothing but a pointless exercise in frustration.  The only way I could survive was with a shield and too many times I'd swing and hit ghosts.  Just not worth it as you wont learn anything and just give players easy kills.

- I can only comment on melee as my archery skills are even worse than my manual blocking skills (the guys who 'pwned' me 5-6 times in a row on a Khergit deathmatch map last night would agree).  I recommend a shield, the fastest single-hander you can get (scimitar works extremely well if you can get it, I've taken out the occasional two-hander using shield and scimitar), a spear if you are going to face cavalry and a throwing weapon.  The throwing weapon works well sometimes if you catch a two-hander type off-guard.  I managed to surprise someone last night when I switched to my javelin which they then caught with their face.  I think people avoid throwing weapons (at least in the matches I've been in) because they are slow, have very limited ammunition and crappy range, but if you learn to use them properly they can come in handy on occasion especially as they are useable with a shield.  They can also be useful if you see a horseman charging you with their weapon at the ready (ie. shield not up).  They aren't recommended if facing an archer at a distance.  For me personally javelins are far better than throwing axes, but that might just be a play style preference.  I think I've caught a few players out with them simply because they haven't expected anyone to be using them.  If using your spear to take on cavalry, don't bother going for the player unless you are to the side and they aren't aiming at you.  In my experience they are far more likely to hit you than you them as their lance/spear is likely to be of greater length.  Instead go for the horse.  If they charge you, instead of stepping to one side (which is what I've been doing a lot of) and making an easy target, move so you are directly infront of the the horse and thrust forward with the spear.  I've killed or stopped dead a few horses that way.  It makes you slightly harder to hit and often the worst that happens if you fail is the horse knocks you over -- some of the better players though will skewer you as you are knocked over.  I wish I'd tried this more often the last capture the flag match I played.  Tactics that work well on foot versus cavalry in single-player aren't likely to work here as I discovered (not surprisingly) players don't just blindly charge in a direction, they will adjust to your movements so sidestep with long axe can often mean spear in head.

- On open maps, never run in straight lines.  Move about a lot.  Players who have mastered bows/crossbows can be freaking deadly in open spaces and running in a straight line just gives them easy kills.  If running towards an archer learn to time when they are most likely to let go of the bow string.  Remember the longer an archer holds their shot before firing, the worse the accuracy gets.  So dodging randomly left or right at the right time while running towards them makes their life (slightly) harder.  This works better than just dodging left or right as you run towards them as they will just adjust to your movement pattern.  Even better is to mix the two techniques up.  Also just because you have gotten into range of melee, don't drop your guard.  I've been taken out by a head shot more times than I care to remember at the last moment when I made the mistake of dropping my shield to take a swing.  Keep your shield up and move it about and wait for them to switch to melee before you attack.  Trying to get a kick in to force them to stop aiming at you can be risky as if they time it right they can hit you just as the kick starts.  I've died that way too.

- Get a decent mouse.  Or turn your mouse acceleration up a bit.  People circle like crazy in melee battles and if you can't turn fast enough to face them you are going to lose pretty much every time, whether you are a super master jedi blockist extreme or not.

- Swinging at someone from the side is more likely to make contact during these circling battles than forward thrusts or overhead strikes.  The only time I think I've ever hit someone with an overhead strike is when they haven't been ready ie. facing away or when charging towards them and they've been busy blocking someone else.  They are too easy for the better players to block or sidestep.  In close combat they are pretty pointless too.  The better experienced players might disagree, but that's because they are better at timing/aiming than I am.

- In close combat, move and just keep moving.  Standing still for even a moment will open you up to the standard 'kick + strike = you dead' move.  Having been on the receiving end of that a few times now I can say that now I get why people have asked for it to be changed.  I love doing that in single-player mode (I dont bother in multi-player because I'm simply not fast enough) but can see it becoming frustrating for some in multi-player.  Its been frustrating for me but I still say leave it in.  I've seen it fail spectacularly when two better players have fought, so it obviously is something that can be countered.

- Learn to use the force.

Whatever you do, don't keep trying the same tactic over and over again if you keep getting killed as chances are you will just die the same way again.  Don't be afraid to try different ideas out.  The worst that can happen is you get killed again.

Disclaimer: I am new to multi-player, I'm as far away from expert as you can possibly get and these are just my observations (correct or not).