LoL-League Of Legends

[Arch3r]

Yes, but I said I was gonna build him like naut, a tanky initiator, not a damage dealer, a disruptor that can initiate when the enemy team is out of position.

Ehm, what's keeping people from just ignoring you if you deal no damage but only tank? Nautilus has CC, when people don't kill you, you keep stunning and disrupting all of em. Hecarim has no CC after his initial charge.

Good luck running behind a champion that has knockback on a squishy. You will get knockbacked towards their team and you die. That sure was good use of those 4 damage items.
He works the same way as Shyvana, I'd assume. It's just too much AoE damage to let run around freely. He doesn't really peel that hard without Frozen Mallet/Red(unless he saves the ulti, but probably not), but he just has the ability to push carries away from the fight. Or that's the idea behind it anyways. And yeah, Shyvana does build some damage, but CDR on this guy equals damage. Especially when the Q optimally gets 50% reduced DCs just from 25% CDR. Triforce and Mallet seem pretty good picks if it's not enough. Ghostblade? Dunno. Don't think so. Maybe, really want to test it. Atmogs? Nah. Last Whisper probably best for lategame.

What?
You saying that Hecarim can just run through the entire enemy team, walk behind the enemy carry and knock him back all the way into your team? Can't see how that's going to happen as the knockback range is really short. Also, why would you build 4 damage items, he has to be tanky, but not full tank as people tend to ignore people that deal no damage and no CC. A full tank Blitzcrank is still annoying as hell because you get knocked up in the air every 3 seconds, a full tank Hecarim fears once for 1 second and then knocks one person back (with a 10 sec or so cooldown).
He is kinda like Pantheon that way, he can't build full AD because jumping in as an AD carry gets you killed for sure. He can't build full tank because people would ignore him as he would not be a threat at all (no CC and no damage = useless) so he has to build tanky DPS.
Good luck surviving with your 4 damage items :O

 

[Pjoo]

Yes, but I said I was gonna build him like naut, a tanky initiator, not a damage dealer, a disruptor that can initiate when the enemy team is out of position.

Ehm, what's keeping people from just ignoring you if you deal no damage but only tank? Nautilus has CC, when people don't kill you, you keep stunning and disrupting all of em. Hecarim has no CC after his initial charge.

Good luck running behind a champion that has knockback on a squishy. You will get knockbacked towards their team and you die. That sure was good use of those 4 damage items.
He works the same way as Shyvana, I'd assume. It's just too much AoE damage to let run around freely. He doesn't really peel that hard without Frozen Mallet/Red(unless he saves the ulti, but probably not), but he just has the ability to push carries away from the fight. Or that's the idea behind it anyways. And yeah, Shyvana does build some damage, but CDR on this guy equals damage. Especially when the Q optimally gets 50% reduced DCs just from 25% CDR. Triforce and Mallet seem pretty good picks if it's not enough. Ghostblade? Dunno. Don't think so. Maybe, really want to test it. Atmogs? Nah. Last Whisper probably best for lategame.

What?
You saying that Hecarim can just run through the entire enemy team, walk behind the enemy carry and knock him back all the way into your team? Can't see how that's going to happen as the knockback range is really short. Also, why would you build 4 damage items, he has to be tanky, but not full tank as people tend to ignore people that deal no damage and no CC. A full tank Blitzcrank is still annoying as hell because you get knocked up in the air every 3 seconds, a full tank Hecarim fears once for 1 second and then knocks one person back (with a 10 sec or so cooldown).
He is kinda like Pantheon that way, he can't build full AD because jumping in as an AD carry gets you killed for sure. He can't build full tank because people would ignore him as he would not be a threat at all (no CC and no damage = useless) so he has to build tanky DPS.
Good luck surviving with your 4 damage items :O

The AD carry has 4 damage items. The good use of them would be positioning like crap, getting knocked into enemy team and dying. And yeah, he doesn't need to run behind the enemy carry if he is ignored. He just kind of ends up being there. Cause he is ignored. It's like ignoring Alistar with headbutt up. Gets you killed.
Pantheon needs to build AD because his base damages are rather low. Hecarim's sustained damage from the Q at 25% CDR is about the same dps pantheon has from Q AND E, in AoE. And CDR isn't really a tanking stat. But yeah, you do want something most of the time, probably. He really isn't a peeler, if you need to peel, build Frozen Mallet or pick something else. He can zone the whole team pretty well with good sustain and AoE.

But yeah, the W seems really really OP and I really dunno at all how it will work and how it affects builds and so on.

 

[Arch3r]

Still not really seeing what you mean, but maybe you understood me wrong. Hecarim should be built as an initiator (thus, tanky) but still with some damage because you want the enemy to focus you, the initiator, rather than your carries. His sustain in a group fight is really high, so you want him to get damage reduction (Armor + MR) rather than HP to making the amount of healing done by your W more significant as well as damage, to increase the healing you get. If the enemy does not focus you, you damage their carry by a lot, if they do focus you your carries should be able to kill them. I just need to find the right mix between damage and tankyness (maybe damage items are even insignificant if his base stats are good enough, but I have to test that/find out).

 

[Pjoo]

just need to find the right mix between damage and tankyness (maybe damage items are even insignificant if his base stats are good enough, but I have to test that/find out).

That pretty much. He has tons of base damage as it is all AoE and he scales really well with CDR, especially the first 25% of CDR(on most tanks it's extra annoyance, on Hecarim it's extra damage). He also gets free AD from MS. He should be fine just building early phage, if even that, and later on upgrading it to mallet or triforce, while building items such as Frozen Heart, Randuins Omen, Spirit Visage, Force of Nature, Aegis, Shurelia's, and so on, depending on what is needed.

But all in all, should be very flexible in his builds and can probably buy whatever he wishes.

 

[Arch3r]

Triforce is a damage item, not a full-tank item. I'd probably go for a Triforce rather than a Frozen Mallet if I already get Frozen Heart, Force of Nature and Randuins.

 

[ColonicAcid]

What ever, ask any high elo and the same will come up, I dunno why you question it, since ya know over 100 games as leesin kind of tells you something about who you can gank and who you can't.

"ask any high elo"

You sound like you are making yourself out to be a high elo player

Hardness, stop acting all high and mighty and as if you know all the **** about this game. You remind me of the apprentice for the Roofers I am currently labouring for. He tries to boss me around as if he knows better, when everyone around me keeps telling me he doesn't really. Example, he told me to set up scaffolding and I did it. He started moaning about it not being right and the rest of the roofers came over and tried their hardest to convince him it was right. This is the same case here, you may have played more games than me, but that doesn't mean you know better, and no matter how much me, or Calodine, or any of the other guys try to tell you, you still act like a stuck up twat about it.

EDIT: <3 you too Harden

Oh noes I know something about the character I play and calodine and you usually dosent play, sure If I was talking about someone like Jarvan I wouldn't act like I knew what I'm talking about because I really don't, you act like the twat, Im sorry but you bloody well do, Anything I say, you dont even read it, you just look at it, see its me, dissmiss it as **** and say I'm always wrong, when accually it has a bit of truth in it, when I said that those people are ungankable I was right, you can't gank something you cant target can you?

Yes, but I said I was gonna build him like naut, a tanky initiator, not a damage dealer, a disruptor that can initiate when the enemy team is out of position.

Ehm, what's keeping people from just ignoring you if you deal no damage but only tank? Nautilus has CC, when people don't kill you, you keep stunning and disrupting all of em. Hecarim has no CC after his initial charge.

Good luck running behind a champion that has knockback on a squishy. You will get knockbacked towards their team and you die. That sure was good use of those 4 damage items.
He works the same way as Shyvana, I'd assume. It's just too much AoE damage to let run around freely. He doesn't really peel that hard without Frozen Mallet/Red(unless he saves the ulti, but probably not), but he just has the ability to push carries away from the fight. Or that's the idea behind it anyways. And yeah, Shyvana does build some damage, but CDR on this guy equals damage. Especially when the Q optimally gets 50% reduced DCs just from 25% CDR. Triforce and Mallet seem pretty good picks if it's not enough. Ghostblade? Dunno. Don't think so. Maybe, really want to test it. Atmogs? Nah. Last Whisper probably best for lategame.

What?
You saying that Hecarim can just run through the entire enemy team, walk behind the enemy carry and knock him back all the way into your team? Can't see how that's going to happen as the knockback range is really short. Also, why would you build 4 damage items, he has to be tanky, but not full tank as people tend to ignore people that deal no damage and no CC. A full tank Blitzcrank is still annoying as hell because you get knocked up in the air every 3 seconds, a full tank Hecarim fears once for 1 second and then knocks one person back (with a 10 sec or so cooldown).
He is kinda like Pantheon that way, he can't build full AD because jumping in as an AD carry gets you killed for sure. He can't build full tank because people would ignore him as he would not be a threat at all (no CC and no damage = useless) so he has to build tanky DPS.
Good luck surviving with your 4 damage items :O

But full AD pantheon is hilarious, Sure you die in 1/10 of a second, but if the stars align and you survive a teamfight its clean up town.

 

[Pjoo]

Triforce is a damage item, not a full-tank item. I'd probably go for a Triforce rather than a Frozen Mallet if I already get Frozen Heart, Force of Nature and Randuins.

Crash ate my post so TL;DR:

Didn't say it was bad to build damage, I meant it's probably viable to build full tank or close to it. Sometimes building stuff like TF or such is maybe better, depending on your playstyle, and a whole lot of other variables.

For example, here: I like Phage. Just Phage. It's really good item. I like building it. I also like Aegis. If I have those and SV, boots and 2 gp/10 items on top of those, and I am ahead, I'll probably get Triforce. I think it will be good item on Hecarim due to all the synergy it has, but I don't think you neccessarily need it. I think he can work with plenty of builds, one of them being CDR stack support-ish Hecarim that cleaves people in the face, as the damage output from his Q can be pretty damn high even without items apart from the CDR.

 

[b00227783]

Oh noes I know something about the character I play and calodine and you usually dosent play, sure If I was talking about someone like Jarvan I wouldn't act like I knew what I'm talking about because I really don't, you act like the twat, Im sorry but you bloody well do, Anything I say, you dont even read it, you just look at it, see its me, dissmiss it as **** and say I'm always wrong, when accually it has a bit of truth in it, when I said that those people are ungankable I was right, you can't gank something you cant target can you?

Actually, remember a while back I kept saying Lee Sin was awesome? That's because I was playing him on a smurf that I realised had enough to buy him. And yes, I've probably played about 100 games if you combine the smurf and my "Mabons" account together. So that point is moot. And I do read your posts, for example, you say that all of those champions are ungankable, because you cannot target them. Only fizz and vladimir actually apply there, so you're wrong there. Morgana's spell shield still lets you jump to her, and the rest of the champions you mentioned have a long blink. Jarvan pulls to his flag, which you can then throw your Q at his flag rather than him. Ezreal is a tricky one, but it's still just a bit of prediction skills. I don't see why you mentioned Malphite, I've never seen a malphite retarded enough to use his ult to get away, rather than run back to tower, bait them to dive then ult the ****ers and fight back. Kennen can be targeted in his lightning rush but yes he can stun you, as can about any other champion can CC you. As Ilex says, any champion with summoners is almost impossible to gank, and these ones you mention are actually impossible to gank when they have summoners.

 

[Ilex]

I wouldn't go as far to call any lane ungankable. I was Morg mid and our Lee Sin ganked successfully Vlad at least three times.

 

[Varric]

.
You guys seem to be confused over the definition of ganking, the only true people who are ungankable are the ones that are fed enough to have guaranteed kills without dying if they were ganked.
Lee Sin's a great ganker because all of his skills go together perfectly in every ganking situation, every champion that you've claimed who are ungankable are certainly gankable if your ally baits said skills that makes them 'ungankable', there's a reason why your ally initiates on the person you're ganking first until they commit and use their skills before you start going in, the idea that said skills that makes champions 'ungankable' including summoners only works if the person plays defensively and runs as soon as blowns are traded without using any of their skills. Even if they're tower-hugging if they get harassed low enough you can just gank and tower-dive which is the jungler's job (Lee Sin excels at this).
Also a successful gank isn't a kill, it's one where you leave the enemy at a more unfavourable position than your ally's, so unless they manage to kite you while using no mana, no summoners, and do more damage to your team then that's still a gank and a successful one at that.

Tl;dr: Lee Sin can gank anyone.

Except Singed.

 

[b00227783]

Well I am talking about ganking for "kills" but I suppose you could say that leaving the enemy oom and lower health is also a good gank.

 

[Arch3r]

Triforce is a damage item, not a full-tank item. I'd probably go for a Triforce rather than a Frozen Mallet if I already get Frozen Heart, Force of Nature and Randuins.

Crash ate my post so TL;DR:

Didn't say it was bad to build damage, I meant it's probably viable to build full tank or close to it. Sometimes building stuff like TF or such is maybe better, depending on your playstyle, and a whole lot of other variables.

For example, here: I like Phage. Just Phage. It's really good item. I like building it. I also like Aegis. If I have those and SV, boots and 2 gp/10 items on top of those, and I am ahead, I'll probably get Triforce. I think it will be good item on Hecarim due to all the synergy it has, but I don't think you neccessarily need it. I think he can work with plenty of builds, one of them being CDR stack support-ish Hecarim that cleaves people in the face, as the damage output from his Q can be pretty damn high even without items apart from the CDR.

Aye, I got your point, but Harden said that he wanted to build him full tank. I think if you want to go a full-tank character, it's better to take a character that is made to do that, such as Nautilus or Olaf. Olaf does more damage based on his health and doesn't really need AD that much to deal damage. Nautilus built full tank will drag people around, stun people, deals more damage when not focused and thus be general annoying as a tank. Hecarim will also deal damage when built full tank, but in my opinion it would not utilize his abilities enough. Dealing more damage increases his health regen and thus damage items actually increase his survivability, and it makes him a much larger threat to carries (and thus is more likely to get focused, which is useful for teamfights if your carries are decent). I think one AD item is good (since his Q scales with bonus AD and not base AD) and really, his passive does not give much bonus AD and even 0 bonus AD if he is slowed enough.

Frozen Mallet + Atma's is likely better for him than a Triforce, since the attack speed is kind of wasted when he got a 1 sec cooldown (with maxed CDR) on his Q, which resets his autoattack.

 

[Mage246]

Except Singed.

Singed

[me=Mage246]shudders[/me]

No one can do a damn thing to Singed.

 

[ColonicAcid]

I wouldn't go as far to call any lane ungankable. I was Morg mid and our Lee Sin ganked successfully Vlad at least three times.

Now try to do it with someone without the longest lasting CC in the game

Morgana is like the pantheon to a jungler, so damn good.

 

[Mage246]

Try dodging it? 

It's a skillshot, after all.

 

[Ilex]

Try dodging it? 

It's a skillshot, after all.

Flash + ult is not a skillshot. He will be slowed while he is in the pool and eventually stunned (if he decides to pool). Once he is out of the pool and stunned you hit the easy snare.

 

[Troll]

I wouldn't go as far to call any lane ungankable. I was Morg mid and our Lee Sin ganked successfully Vlad at least three times.

Now try to do it with someone without the longest lasting CC in the game

Easy. Have Jarvan in your jungle.

 

[Amagic]

Support Udyr. It works!

 

[Ilex]

What does the Udyr do?

 

[b00227783]

What does the Udyr do?

Stuns them every 6 seconds, gives a decent burst of damage, then tanks ****?!

(I honestly don't know how it would work )