in the Rise of the Mongols, what kind of NPC should Temujin be in the mod?

ChengYi

Regular
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This is something I've been thinking about. For character creation you're making your own character, what role should Temujin have? Should Temujin be treated like a Claimant for all the steppe peoples' unification?

It would be cool if the player want to oppose Temujin, and hired by his rival to kill Temujin's entire family. Interesting idea for a quest
 

Wei.Xiadi

Knight at Arms
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I don't even know if Temujin as the 'historical' figure is even in it.  The mods more of a 'what would you do if you was in his position' type of mod.  Maybe we can incorporate parts of his life into the main story, make you follow the history of the mongols a little whilst still offering all of those 'what if' scenarios.
 

Servitor

Sergeant Knight at Arms
M&BWB
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Could anyone give me a very short description of what the mongols were about?  :neutral: Something like, allot of tribes are killing eachother. A very capable tribe leader tries to unite all other tribes under one banner. He succeeds and his huge army invades china?

Servitor
 

ChengYi

Regular
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Servitor said:
Could anyone give me a very short description of what the mongols were about?  :neutral: Something like, allot of tribes are killing eachother. A very capable tribe leader tries to unite all other tribes under one banner. He succeeds and his huge army invades china?

Servitor
a lot more complex than that!! lol
 

jekelof

Squire
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Servitor said:
Could anyone give me a very short description of what the mongols were about?  Something like, allot of tribes are killing eachother. A very capable tribe leader tries to unite all other tribes under one banner. He succeeds and his huge army invades china?

Servitor
Well, think of Genghis Khan as the Tony Montana of Mongolia anno 1200. In short he went from being a captive to being a tribal leader to a Khan and from that to Emperor over the biggest empire ever created, all in one lifetime. And  if I think his army wans't that huge compared to that of Song and Jin in China at the time he invaded it.
 

Gortag

Recruit
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Servitor said:
Could anyone give me a very short description of what the mongols were about?  :neutral: Something like, allot of tribes are killing eachother. A very capable tribe leader tries to unite all other tribes under one banner. He succeeds and his huge army invades china?

Servitor
Not just China,he and his immediate ancestors went on to conquer parts of the Middle East,much of Asia,much of modern Russia,and parts of Eastern Europe.In fact,the world as we know it today was shaped by these conquests.
 

eragoen

Knight at Arms
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Basically Temu took his fathers tribe back from his fathers evil bondsman that took his tribe, after being captured numerous times. After that he got the surrounding tribes to join him or defeated them if they refused. I think he did this to many tribes until he had a massive army. He then fought the chinese and the huns from what I recall.
 

Veluca Salt

Recruit
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ChengYi said:
This is something I've been thinking about. For character creation you're making your own character, what role should Temujin have?
Wei.Xiadi said:
I don't even know if Temujin as the 'historical' figure is even in it.  The mods more of a 'what would you do if you was in his position' type of mod.  Maybe we can incorporate parts of his life into the main story... [offering]  'what if' scenarios.
Getting back to the question in the original post, why not use the initial story-based character creation screens to put the player into a what-if situation, a parallel universe where he must take Temujin's place in history? You could do it by incorporating a pivotal moment in Temujin's life, for example:

As a child of the steppes, you grow up along the banks of the Onon River, near where the rolling Mongolian plains give way to darkly wooded mountains. Without enough grasslands to keep more than a few precious horses, cows or goats, you learn from a very early age to fish and, more importantly, hunt from horseback. Even so, finding enough food to survive is a constant struggle, so you spend your days tracking rats and birds, or perhaps a deer or antelope if you are lucky... and a good shot with a bow.

Among your childhood friends are the many sons of Yesugei, a local tribal chief now dead, poisoned several years ago by the Tatars. Among these six boys the elder is Begter - a brash, bullying sort - followed by his slightly younger and more thoughtful - though no less headstrong - stepbrother Temujin. With their father dead, you sense an icy rivalry growing daily between the two oldest boys, even during innocent games of knucklebones, played with dice made from a sheep's anklebones. You can also toss the knucklebones to forecast the future, and secretly you worry about the many dark omens already surrounding your friend Temujin - born tightly grasping in his hand a black blood clot the size of a knucklebone, or so the local villagers whisper.


[Player choice] Go on.

One morning you are fishing along the river with your friends when Temujin catches a small fish. Begter walks up and snatches the catch from Temujin's hands, claiming it as his by right as the oldest son. "You should share the fish", you think to yourself, but say nothing as Temujin, enraged, runs back to his mother's tent to protest. You resume your fishing, hoping the unpleasant incident will soon be forgotten, but you are sadly mistaken.

Still fishing a few hours later, you notice Begter nearby sitting atop a small knoll overlooking both river and steppe. A slight movement in the tall grass catches your eye, and to your horror you see Temujin, bow in hand, stalking his stepbrother as if he was no more than a grazing gazelle. You cannot believe what you are seeing as Temujin silently circles around behind his brother. Fearing the worst, you must decide what to do quickly.


[Player choice] Stop Temujin from killing his stepbrother.

Even though you dislike Begter, thinking him little more than a small-minded bully, you cannot allow your friend Temujin to shame himself by resorting to such a lowly, taboo act as killing his own brother. You run up from behind and tackle Temujin just as he draws back his bowstring to strike. 'No!" cries out Temujin. Temujin's younger brother Khasar, also with bow in hand, rises up from the tall grass nearby and looks on, puzzled. Begter, seeing his two stepbrothers on either side of him, weapons still in hand, suddenly realizes the plot. Begter draws his knife and charges Temujin, striking him cruelly just as he rises from your grasp, and then charges after his other stepbrother with a roar.

"You fool," Temujin rasps with failing breath, and then closes his eyes.

Although you could not possibly have known it, the boy you watched die had been destined to unify the Mongol tribes, to forge an empire greater than any ever seen, indeed, to change the course of world history. Without him, these same tribes are now fated to struggle on as nomads, divided and forgotten, unless someone... you... will bring them together as one people and lead them to glory.


And then you continue on with the other character creation choices. If you went with an introduction like this you could still incorporate other important figures from Genghis Khan's life, e.g. an early quest might have Jamuka sending you on a mission to avenge his blood brother Temujin by hunting down Begter. I don't see how the player could compete with Genghis Khan himself if he were still alive. Making Temujin an NPC would be incredibly anticlimactic, but giving the player this historically-based backstory at character creation both frees them up to recreate Genghis Khan's achievements and motivates them to try.
 

Temudjin

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ChengYi said:
This is something I've been thinking about. For character creation you're making your own character, what role should Temujin have? Should Temujin be treated like a Claimant for all the steppe peoples' unification?

It would be cool if the player want to oppose Temujin, and hired by his rival to kill Temujin's entire family. Interesting idea for a quest
I think that no npc should be named Temujin. That makes it possible for the player to step into his shoes if he/she wants to. 
 

Hulagu Khan

Sergeant at Arms
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Temujin should be an NPC. These mods are mongol history, genghis khan/temujin being the eye of the mod as he is the eye of mongolia.

Temujins father should be removed from the game if temujin is to be a claimant.
Or temujin should be a "lord" serving his fathers tribe.

I wouldnt suggest he be a companion NPC or left out for the player to chose, unless part of the story IS that you start out as temujin.... in that case, it would totally change the mod and we would need a complete story change-over and (if possible) for the player (temujin) to already BE apart of his fathers tribe from start.... which i think would make an interesting mod, more challanging imo...... but meh. been a while since ive been here; is there a team up yet?

if so let me know cuz im in the mood for mapping (mongol mod only).

not in the mood for asian faces.... i know i made them all look chubby but it was my first time IM SORRY =P ill change them if i have the time but i barely have time to map. id hate to see this mod fall completely.
 

Lord Kehm

Knight
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jekelof said:
Servitor said:
Could anyone give me a very short description of what the mongols were about?  Something like, allot of tribes are killing eachother. A very capable tribe leader tries to unite all other tribes under one banner. He succeeds and his huge army invades china?

Servitor
Well, think of Genghis Khan as the Tony Montana of Mongolia anno 1200. In short he went from being a captive to being a tribal leader to a Khan and from that to Emperor over the biggest empire ever created, all in one lifetime. And  if I think his army wans't that huge compared to that of Song and Jin in China at the time he invaded it.
Well it was one of the largest Empires in History, the largest was in fact the British Empire, which occurred in the Imperial Age.
You could say the Mongol Empire was the largest in the middle ages.
 

Lord Corentin

Sergeant at Arms
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No such thing as an Imperial age, really... You could say age of imperialism, but that's rather different. AoE much? In any case, the size of the British empire and the Mongolian empire aren't really comparable, as the latter is contiguous and the former was scattered around the world. What really, in my opinion, tips the scales in favor of the Mongols is that the British laid claims to much land that wasn't really theirs... Basically going somewhere and planting a flag and saying that the land was now theirs. The Mongolian presence was much more solid if only because they went through and conquered their land, instead of brandishing guns around to scare natives into submission.
 

Almalexia

Her Flamboyance, the Calipha
Duke
M&BWBNW
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Lord Kehm said:
jekelof said:
Servitor said:
Could anyone give me a very short description of what the mongols were about?  Something like, allot of tribes are killing eachother. A very capable tribe leader tries to unite all other tribes under one banner. He succeeds and his huge army invades china?

Servitor
Well, think of Genghis Khan as the Tony Montana of Mongolia anno 1200. In short he went from being a captive to being a tribal leader to a Khan and from that to Emperor over the biggest empire ever created, all in one lifetime. And  if I think his army wans't that huge compared to that of Song and Jin in China at the time he invaded it.
Well it was one of the largest Empires in History, the largest was in fact the British Empire, which occurred in the Imperial Age.
You could say the Mongol Empire was the largest in the middle ages.
Actually, it was the largest land empire ever. Britains empire, while huge, was far more sea-based.
 

Hulagu Khan

Sergeant at Arms
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wait rise of mongols isnt the first mod. i got confused.

either way, temujin should be an npc imo.

edit--

wait maybe it is the first mod.

i have no idea

im going back to my corner.
 

Temudjin

Regular
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Maybe Targutai should be the leader of the Borijigin instead of Yesukei? In that case Temujin could be a claimant to the Borijigin-tribe?
 

Marcus Brutus

Knight at Arms
M&BWB
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I like the idea of temujin being a claimant, and in order to win the game you must help him take control and unify the tribes.
 

Marcus Brutus

Knight at Arms
M&BWB
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Well, since you put it that way, I have to agree and by the way I have never even tried the claimant quest (I am always loyal to king I'm serving :smile:)
 

Hulagu Khan

Sergeant at Arms
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SantasHelper said:
Marcus Brutus said:
I like the idea of temujin being a claimant, and in order to win the game you must help him take control and unify the tribes.
They better totally nerf the claimant quest then, because it will be one seriously boring mod
seriously if I play a game called "mongol" I expect some serious challenge
other than that, wouldn't it look a bit ridiculous havving temujin take order from us and looking like a scared young boy that can't make decisions himself ???

In term of M&B I don't think Temujin is suited to be a "claimant" as in "claimant quest".
Instead you might want to make him a "King" in a verry tight spot that absolutely need the player help
you cast the player in the role of one the most trusted of temujin's friends

start of game

Mongol faction
King = Temujin
another lord = player (yes you start lord, but no fiefs, or perhaps a village)
other lords and fiefs ? could be set by game difficulty
Nightmare difficulty give temujin the castle, you the villages, and you try to stay alive....

the mongols started weak and had to fight hard to ascend to greatness

anyhow, maybe I got an utopian ision of what it means to be a mongol...
but I sure don't think the son of heaven should follow the player like a dog on a leash..
(and that's what claimant do)

----------------------------------------------------

Claimant Quest: it's other name = the ultimate cheat

In case you haven't noticed, in order of difficulty in native

1. hardest: grab a castle, try to win the game, as fast as you can, no one to help you
(and yes, not only it's doable, it's extremely easy if you know how to play)

2. not that hard: get hired as mercenary  you never get a fief , strugle for money, have to follow orders
    quite boring thought

3. easy: swear allegiance to a king
you now have 21 lords that might help you
as you gain reknown you eventually reach a point where you get all the new fiefs...

4. total joke: the claimant quest

just talk to lords and they join you, your "empire" gain whole cities that way.
start feeding a buldozer (give troops to any lords till he reaches 1000)
and you start laughing all the way as you distribute fiefs only to the claimant, yourself, and the bulldozer
eventually send the poor girl home, calradia is yours...
trash the bulldozer... and the game is over (or just let him be slaughtered at some point)
OK calm down

Temujin, in the original Mod, was a companion. I didnt like it that way, he had little to contribute, and I ordered him around.... which made no sense considering the fact he was a great leader.

Although, now that i think about it, it may not be best to make Temujin a claimant.... simply because the name of the mod is Rise of Genghis Khan, and Temujin wont rise for a while being a claimant, so it kind of defeats the name of the mod. If Temujin is going to be a faction leader, we need to redo tribes of that time.

On the menu, where you select your background and heritage, we will modify that to it's maximum potential, so you may choose to either be a poor mongol, or one under the command of a great leader. etc. in time, we'll get it :wink: