I want to be a woman.

[xenoargh]

Just chill out and calm your ass down! I doubt you even want to play fire and sword, its terrible. Go and play warband until they release something better!  You want people whos willing to argue you to give you reason to argue more and thats pointless. You su'c'k.

Hmm.  The guy saying 'chill out' is the one who's cursing, harassing a woman and generally being uncool.  You might want to review your own behavior, sir

I doubt you even want to play fire and sword, its terrible. Go and play warband until they release something better!

First off... if that's what you actually think, why are you here in this thread?  I think it's some form of thread jealousy; lots of people care about this, but not enough about whatever balance griping you're doing

Second off, we're not debating the merits or lack thereof of the game design.  We're talking about something that's a little more fundamental; whether or not it was OK to suddenly kick women out of a sandbox RPG series that has had female characters for years, without any care in terms of marketing materials to prepare the audience for this change.  From what little we know about what happened, this appears to have been a mistake, and as a paying customer, I want it fixed. 

The rest of the insults and general nastiness that have happened are because there is apparently no shortage of real-life sexist jerks on the Forums.  You're not exactly the first person who's cursed in my general direction... again, look at your own behavior, and tell me that there isn't a genuine problem here. 

All we've asked is that girls can play the game along with boys, like the other two.  It wouldn't harm you, or any of the other people.  So, why the cursing and general rudeness?

 

[wolf88]

Am i dipping my test.icals to a lake with piranhas?

 

[xenoargh]

No, you're just being a good old fashioned jerk. 

Please stop; you don't need to use offensive language to get your point of view across.

 

[Ghandi15]

Soon theres going to be a mod that includes the addition of playing as a female just wait a few weeks and it will be out 

 

[PANTERA.]

I would like someone to post some sources saying that a woman led troops during the Russo-Polish War.

 

[wolf88]

Where do you exchange your arguement points for cash? I dont have much right now but id be thankful if you tell me.

 

[xenoargh]

I would like someone to post some sources saying that a woman led troops during the Russo-Polish War.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alyona
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D0%BB%D1%91%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%90%D1%80%D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F

Soon theres going to be a mod that includes the addition of playing as a female just wait a few weeks and it will be out

One was made after two days, and we had female armor on the third day.  Search this sub-forum.  It doesn't fix the dialogs or other small issues.

 

[wolf88]

I dont consider em women when their faces say ''i have a penis''. Wheres the painting of this one?

Stıll waiting for the information about the arguement points exchange location.

 

[PANTERA.]

I would like someone to post some sources saying that a woman led troops during the Russo-Polish War.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alyona
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D0%BB%D1%91%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%90%D1%80%D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F

Soon theres going to be a mod that includes the addition of playing as a female just wait a few weeks and it will be out

One was made after two days, and we had female armor on the third day.  Search this sub-forum.  It doesn't fix the dialogs or other small issues.

The Russo-Polish war ended in 1667, 3 years before that unrelated peasant revolt against Russia.

Want to try again?

 

[xenoargh]

Nope.  The game covers a fairly nebulous period, time-wise.  Within 3 years is more than sufficient.

 

[Ceriy]

A woman in a peasant uprising is considered an army leader?

 

[Melissia]

I don't honestly give a damn what historical mumbo-jumbo it involves anyway, myself.  History sucks, so I want to make my own history instead, full of awesome epic battles, led by the character of my creation. 

More importantly, the ability to choose to play as a female character is a feature which I liked and frequently used in the non-expansion version of the game, yet was removed in the expansion.  That lowered the value of the game for me to the point where I have no intention of buying until it is added in.  It doesn't reduce the value of the game that much for you.  Everyone values different aspects of the game higher than others.  Me, I don't give a damn about historical accuracy in the first place, hell, I actually PREFERRED the fantasy setting.

 

[xenoargh]

A woman in a peasant uprising is considered an army leader?

She led more troops than any player does in the game, so yeah, I think that's legitimate.

 

[PANTERA.]

Nope.  The game covers a fairly nebulous period, time-wise.  Within 3 years is more than sufficient.

The game was based on the novel, which is based on the Khmelnytsky Uprising(1648–1654) that turned into the Russo-Polish war(1654–67).

You listed a peasant rebellion that had nothing to do with the War and it didn't start until 1770, 3 years AFTER the War ended.

It was a rebellion in Russia, and had nothing to do with any of the other countries in the game.

You might as well put Jeanne d'Arc down as a reference because she has as much relevance to this War as Alyona does.

 

[xenoargh]

No, she's a lot more relevant than Joan of Arc; within that time period, in the same region, in the same culture, etc.

Moreover, she's documented; it doesn't mean that there weren't similar events during the time period that we haven't found yet.  Basically, she's representative of the argument that it certainly could have happened.

As for what time period the game supposedly covers... again, the man we first meet?  He's left France because he got challenged by d'Artagnan; IOW, a wholly fictional character with a totally fictional backstory.  If we're supposed to allow for that sort of liberty with history, then it's fair to say that a woman isn't much of a stretch.

Basically, the argument that we're dealing with History is false to begin with, and even if we were, it's fair to say that with that example, so close in time, place, etc., it's not really ridiculous to say that there is a reasonable chance a woman did indeed participate in an important role.

 

[Daemeous]

This whole situation is dumb.

This thread only exists because you could play a Female in all the previous titles in the series; if it hadn't been possible it would never exist.

The removal of a feature and art assets that already exists is dumb especially one that more people will like than dislike. There is no argument that holds ground saying that the possibility to play Female characters harmed the game. For all of you decrying it as unrealistic how about teleporting all over the map? How about knocking out your enemies from the other side of the battle without moving?

Cheats are far more unrealistic and just as optional.

Truth be told I hedge my bets on cutting corners; Fire & Sword just reeks of it. The extra work of creating a second model for clothing, modifying dialogue/stories and other factors is my guess for the exclusion. This is a bad thing, this is a rookie mistake (made by a rookie developer seeing as Fire & Sword was outsourced to a company for their first game release).

You could argue that making female characters would detract from the game as other content could've been made with the resources/time invested. You would be doing an extremely stupid thing about on the level of finding the nearest person you know and asking them to smack you upside the head; so if you were going to do the former, please execute the latter.

Making excuses for game developers to slack as a consumer at best only hurts yourself in the end. You're trying to excuse a lacklustre game and if they take it on board they'll think they can get away with it. What's more, they're a business with enough money to hire an ex-Spetsnaz agent to track you down and kill you and then buy everything you owned without it even making a noticeable effect on their treasury; they don't need your protection.

On a more constructive note if they really wanted to milk the consumer base for money they could just create it as DLC and charge for it something like 5% of the cost of the game which would easily cause them to recoup the extremely minimal cost of production but that in itself is a bad practice. You are best off just waiting for it to be modded in.

One final note, Melissia you are hurting yourself and your entertainment by boycotting games due to the lack of female characters, granted not in this case but in others. Granted you do go for games that are high quality in spite of the lack of female characters but really the fact it does concern you that greatly shows you're somewhat narrow minded and uncreative.

Granted I'd imagine the vast majority of games just make an idealised depiction of how they see themselves rather than make up a character and play that (of which I too am guilty upon occasion). You should try making a character that isn't you, perhaps based on someone you know or a romantic idealised partner, you may find the level of abstraction brings new life to games (especially choice based RPGs where you'd try to follow their ideology instead of your own).

Honestly though I can't disagree with you. This game doesn't really add anything/enough good over Warband other than storyline/s...yet. It is without a doubt the worst game in the Mount & Blade series so far, but the expansion of the game to include more features opens up more possibilities for modders could possibly make it the best modding platform in the series yet.

Of all the reasons why you shouldn't buy Fire & Sword the lack of a Female character should be the least, at least in my opinion.

 

[wolf88]

This whole situation is dumb.

This thread only exists because you could play a Female in all the previous titles in the series; if it hadn't been possible it would never exist.

The removal of a feature and art assets that already exists is dumb especially one that more people will like than dislike. There is no argument that holds ground saying that the possibility to play Female characters harmed the game. For all of you decrying it as unrealistic how about teleporting all over the map? How about knocking out your enemies from the other side of the battle without moving?

Cheats are far more unrealistic and just as optional.

Truth be told I hedge my bets on cutting corners; Fire & Sword just reeks of it. The extra work of creating a second model for clothing, modifying dialogue/stories and other factors is my guess for the exclusion. This is a bad thing, this is a rookie mistake (made by a rookie developer seeing as Fire & Sword was outsourced to a company for their first game release).

You could argue that making female characters would detract from the game as other content could've been made with the resources/time invested. You would be doing an extremely stupid thing about on the level of finding the nearest person you know and asking them to smack you upside the head; so if you were going to do the former, please execute the latter.

Making excuses for game developers to slack as a consumer at best only hurts yourself in the end. You're trying to excuse a lacklustre game and if they take it on board they'll think they can get away with it. What's more, they're a business with enough money to hire an ex-Spetsnaz agent to track you down and kill you and then buy everything you owned without it even making a noticeable effect on their treasury; they don't need your protection.

On a more constructive note if they really wanted to milk the consumer base for money they could just create it as DLC and charge for it something like 5% of the cost of the game which would easily cause them to recoup the extremely minimal cost of production but that in itself is a bad practice. You are best off just waiting for it to be modded in.

One final note, Melissia you are hurting yourself and your entertainment by boycotting games due to the lack of female characters, granted not in this case but in others. Granted you do go for games that are high quality in spite of the lack of female characters but really the fact it does concern you that greatly shows you're somewhat narrow minded and uncreative.

Granted I'd imagine the vast majority of games just make an idealised depiction of how they see themselves rather than make up a character and play that (of which I too am guilty upon occasion). You should try making a character that isn't you, perhaps based on someone you know or a romantic idealised partner, you may find the level of abstraction brings new life to games (especially choice based RPGs where you'd try to follow their ideology instead of your own).

Honestly though I can't disagree with you. This game doesn't really add anything/enough good over Warband other than storyline/s...yet. It is without a doubt the worst game in the Mount & Blade series so far, but the expansion of the game to include more features opens up more possibilities for modders could possibly make it the best modding platform in the series yet.

Of all the reasons why you shouldn't buy Fire & Sword the lack of a Female character should be the least, at least in my opinion.

Wow! Very nice post.

 

[Melissia]

One final note, Melissia you are hurting yourself and your entertainment by boycotting games due to the lack of female characters, granted not in this case but in others. Granted you do go for games that are high quality in spite of the lack of female characters but really the fact it does concern you that greatly shows you're somewhat narrow minded and uncreative.

Not at all.  There's FAR more games released per year than I could ever possibly afford, even if I didn't have to pay rent/food/water/etc and could dedicate all of my money towards games.  I have to prioritize.  The fact that this is one of the priorities isn't "narrow minded" any more than, say, my general dislike of 3PS games as opposed to FPS games.  Sure, I'll play a good 3PS game, but I would really prefer to look down the barrel of the gun from a first person viewpoint instead of over the shoulder of random faceless nameless dork personality-less dork #3715.  Other people prefer the over the shoulder view.  Other people don't care either way.

It's just what I enjoy more.  And so it's a category by which I can judge a game and thus determine if it's more worth my VERY limited funds than the sea of other games which I could spend money on.

 

[Daemeous]

Wow! Very nice post.

Thanks, I'm currently studying for a Games Programming Degree at University so it's in my best interest to be thoroughly analytical about issues like this so I can learn and use this experience to avoid/make the best of situations like this.

 

[xenoargh]

@Daemeous:

I agree with a lot of that, but remember... we made a mod with female armors on the third day, using tools readily available.  My estimate is that it would take maybe an hour or two to get the results polished to a professional standard.  Basically, if that was a corner that was cut, it was cut by somebody who wasn't terribly good at their job.

If all that was wrong with WFaS was game-design problems, this thread wouldn't have even started.  I, as a fairly un-feminist dude, would have just shrugged about the quality of the game and made a mod to fix the worst of it when code became available.

Lastly, it's easy to discount female reactions, until you consider how men would have reacted if WFaS required a female character and non-male roleplay.  For example, it would be possible to make a compelling game about being a courtesan and spy for one of the lords of this period, with brief interludes of M&B gameplay in between periods of solving a grand story within the setting in a way that was tasteful and period, or even a game where you had to switch between roles and tell a mirrored tale.  Let alone a storyline where anybody is gay (cue complaints about DA2).

We'd have had a thread like this about it, only worse. 

I'm pretty convinced that this touches a nerve with a lot of people.  It's not a minor thing, to mess with a sandbox RPG in such a way.  People want to play themselves, only better-looking, and a lot of guys, including myself, would rather stare at a woman than a guy in a 3rd-person game, not because I'd like to be a female, but because I find staring at a guy who's fairly ill-defined to be boring.  This may go against the grain of RP, but it's what marketing data tells us.


[EDIT]Oh, and in terms of that Cossack woman, this just in... she's connected to Stepan Razin, one of the primary people in the storylines.  Close enough for the historical argument, imo.  Thanks to the person who sent me that link via PM.[/EDIT]