[Feedback] Some suggestions for the future

[ElderDays]

All very good suggestions. I'll add a few of my own.

Add Pagan Holy Sites
I would love to see areas such as sacred groves rune stones and stone burial ships added to the Nordic regions. They would serve the same purpose as monasteries but for pagans.

Religion quests
For Christians they could be things like going on a pilgrimage, recovering a sacred relic, escorting a bishop, delivering an important message from Rome or building a shrine in one of your fiefs.

For pagans the quests would be similar but here are a few possible variations. Travel to learn an almost forgotten saga from a dying skald who lives in a remote area. Bring a heard of cattle for sacrifice. Bring prisoners for sacrifice. Destroy a Christian mission. Recover an ancient talisman. Confront a "monster" that is attacking a jarl's mead hall. Bring back a jarl's wayward son who has run off to become a monk.

Religion Rewards
Upon reaching a certain standing among fellow Christians you could receive a number of rewards. First tier would be a discount on learning to read. Second tier discounted medical services at monasteries. Third tier ability to buy books at a discount from monasteries. Fourth tier receive a holy relic that significantly improves the morale of Christians in your party.

Upon reaching a certain standing among fellow pagans you could receive a number of rewards. First tier a talisman that improve morale slightly for pagan troops. Second tier bearskin shirt improves length of berserk mode. Third tier ability to recruit ulfhednar crazed warriors wearing wolf skins that believe themselves to be posed by the spirit of the animal. Fourth tier ability to recruit berserkers warriors who enter a possible drug induced rage before battle. They often fight wearing bear skins or nude.

 

[DerHerbst]

why should reputation loss be removed for raiding monasteries. By raiding a monastery it is the same as raiding a village as you are murdering helpless monks. Obviously this is going to have a negative effect on your realtions with other people, especially christians

You should receive a relation penalty for sure.  I don't think anyone is saying that the penalty should be removed entirely.  The opposition raised on the forum is that the loss should only occur with Christian cultures.  I don't think it's very realistic for a lord in pagan Norway to be offended that you raided a monastery in England or Ireland etc.

I think my idea of making is based on chance is good for two reasons: it's historically "accurate" in that people weren't readily recognizable back then.  Especially vikings conducting raids abroad. 

Secondly, giving a relation loss based on chance makes the choice to raid more strategic.  Raiding monasteries should be tempting due to the large amount of treasure one could obtain.  However, be careful because there is a good chance you'll be nailed and suffer a huge loss with Christian cultures!  It adds a bit more strategic depth to the game in my opinion.

That is if it's even possible to code it etc.

As an aside, raiding monasteries was not as black-and-white as it is in the game.  Christian cultures raided monasteries all the time.  Just read up on Irish warfare fromthis time period and there are PLENTY of examples of Irish factions raiding Irish monasteries for example.  The idea of looting Christian monasteries wasn't as Earth-shattering as we think it is now.  Although, I believe the main reason the Vikings are so associated with such attacks are that they were 1) Pagan 2) more frequent and widespread 3) ultra-violent in doing so.

 

[pRaX]

why should reputation loss be removed for raiding monasteries. By raiding a monastery it is the same as raiding a village as you are murdering helpless monks. Obviously this is going to have a negative effect on your realtions with other people, especially christians

Relation losses are fine. A reputation loss amongst pagans, if you're pagan, is not. And since the reputation (honour) is hardcoded (at least I think so), it would be quite difficult to make two seperate reputation counters. Even though it would be the perfect solution.

 

[Dennis The Great]

Firstly, I totally agree that the relation loss with pagan cultures should be ELIMINATED entirely for raiding monasteries.  If anything there should be a slight increase or something with certain pagan lords.  Here are my additional comments.

I'm not sure how hard this would be to code/implement but:  Make reputation loss for raiding monasteries based on CHANCE.  I made this suggestion in the Brytenwalda forum years ago.

Why?  Consider it's 865AD and you're a viking from Scandinavia, come to the British Isles to raid for treasure.  You land on the coast of Ireland and sack a monastery.  You kill all the monks and sail away with the plunder.  How the hell would anyone know YOU did it?  Unless you were a famous viking and left a calling card, it would be very unlikely that someone would "recognize" you in Ireland if you're from Norway; especially in an age before media and photographs.

Make raiding monasteries a calculated risk with great rewards.  You may conduct a raid and get away with riches without penalty.  Or you could raid and come away with a HUGE penalty in Christian relations.  Maybe make the chance of being recognized like 65% to 35%

I even have a suggestion for the event dialogue.

Scenario 1:  You and your men have just raided a House of God.  You put fire to thatch and leave no one alive.  The waterline of your boat sinks with the weight of treasure and captives; no one is left to tell the tale.  You make for the sea in jubilation (incur no relation loss with Christian cultures and gain positive relations with Pagan cultures).

Scenario 2:  While raiding a House of God, your men strip everything of value from the sheepish monks.  All are put to the sword, so you think.  Your men salute your leadership loudly, chanting your name they declare you the bravest during the raid.  However, a monk hidden in a secret room overhears your men boasting and remembers your name.  As you depart, he leaves his hiding spot and spreads the word that "insert player name here" was the mastermind behind the devastation (you lose xxx relation with all Christian factions).

How does that sound???

I really love that idea.. thats how it should work.. really good work man.
And if scenario 2 happens, it would only be the christians who you will lose reputation with.. NOT the pagans.. thats the point

This is a great idea and i really hope that the dev team will make it happen

 

[Dennis The Great]

All very good suggestions. I'll add a few of my own.

Add Pagan Holy Sites
I would love to see areas such as sacred groves rune stones and stone burial ships added to the Nordic regions. They would serve the same purpose as monasteries but for pagans.

Religion quests
For Christians they could be things like going on a pilgrimage, recovering a sacred relic, escorting a bishop, delivering an important message from Rome or building a shrine in one of your fiefs.

For pagans the quests would be similar but here are a few possible variations. Travel to learn an almost forgotten saga from a dying skald who lives in a remote area. Bring a heard of cattle for sacrifice. Bring prisoners for sacrifice. Destroy a Christian mission. Recover an ancient talisman. Confront a "monster" that is attacking a jarl's mead hall. Bring back a jarl's wayward son who has run off to become a monk.

Religion Rewards
Upon reaching a certain standing among fellow Christians you could receive a number of rewards. First tier would be a discount on learning to read. Second tier discounted medical services at monasteries. Third tier ability to buy books at a discount from monasteries. Fourth tier receive a holy relic that significantly improves the morale of Christians in your party.

Upon reaching a certain standing among fellow pagans you could receive a number of rewards. First tier a talisman that improve morale slightly for pagan troops. Second tier bearskin shirt improves length of berserk mode. Third tier ability to recruit ulfhednar crazed warriors wearing wolf skins that believe themselves to be posed by the spirit of the animal. Fourth tier ability to recruit berserkers warriors who enter a possible drug induced rage before battle. They often fight wearing bear skins or nude.

i like these too

well i dont know about the 'monster' quest.. but else its some great ideas

 

[ElderDays]

When I said "monster" I was really thinking of a Viking age serial killer 

 

[Grimes]

wouldn't it be as simple as causing a penalty to your "christian" value or whatever it is, then once that value gets low enough you take a relation penalty with people/factions/cities etc tagged as christian?

 

[Remorr]

Add Pagan Holy Sites
I would love to see areas such as sacred groves rune stones and stone burial ships added to the Nordic regions. They would serve the same purpose as monasteries but for pagans.

Religion quests
For Christians they could be things like going on a pilgrimage, recovering a sacred relic, escorting a bishop, delivering an important message from Rome or building a shrine in one of your fiefs.

For pagans the quests would be similar but here are a few possible variations. Travel to learn an almost forgotten saga from a dying skald who lives in a remote area. Bring a heard of cattle for sacrifice. Bring prisoners for sacrifice. Destroy a Christian mission. Recover an ancient talisman. Confront a "monster" that is attacking a jarl's mead hall. Bring back a jarl's wayward son who has run off to become a monk.

Religion Rewards
...

Sounds good. I'd suggest a different religion reward though. Like allied religion spawns near your fiefs, more converted - bigger spawns.

 

[bawzz]

wouldn't it be as simple as causing a penalty to your "christian" value or whatever it is, then once that value gets low enough you take a relation penalty with people/factions/cities etc tagged as christian?

Wouldn't just loosing relation with all Christians lord / cities be easy to do as well ? (Like when you go to war against someone, there all those "you loose XXX with ...")

 

[a89a89]

This thread is being #revivied 1

 

[kalarhan]

This thread is being #revivied 1

no need, as we have a sticky thread for suggestions now

btw, bump a thread is against forum rules