[ECS] Suggestions

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Scar

Prussian Immortal
Marquis
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SUGGESTIONS


Feel free to post all of your suggestions about the ECS here!
 

Dasvi2018

Grandmaster Knight
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Ok this may be a drastical change but I thought over it last night and it will be great to have it tested here

It is about Armor Snowballing

We all have been in dire cases where you lose 3-0 and the enemy has insane armor which makes the last round hard to win?

Well inspired by Vikingr I have a change

Basicly in Vikingr, when one side is about to win a battle (battle are won when one team has won 3 rounds more than the other), the losing side gets a 1000 gold injection to help them turn the tides around.

So my proposition is, after a 3-0 by Team A, Team B gets a 1000 gold bonus along with their money. This helps them get armor and weapons to at least challenge Team A and win the last round.

I think it can be modded in, if not, let a modder tell me.

Dasvi out
 

ModusTollens

Baron
M&BWBWF&S
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Dasvi2018 said:
Yeah, it works pretty well in Vikingr. I'm not sure whether it's viable for a competitive environment though, since one could argue that a team leading 3-0 deserves to get the advantage it worked for (or something along that line).
I'm also not sure if 4-0s (which weren't part of 8-0s) were really that common in the last WNL (or the former tournaments), and how many of the 3-1s were results of a team leading 3-0 beforehand. Any data regarding that aspects would be interesting to see.

I'd like to suggest adjusting the roster and match rules to the new tournament format, since they still speak of points deductions in cases of rule violations (there are also some minor typos and a missed ESC-for-WNL substitution in the last roster paragraph; and a Vaegirs-typo in the factions spoiler).

Since drawn rounds count, I think there's also an additional rule needed regarding overall draws.

I guess this thread is also for questions: Is "Hill Valley" the same as the one posted on the IG-forums, and is "Snowy Village" the original or an updated one?
Since "Ruins" and "Snowy Village" are used maps, is the flag-bug (not winning although the flag is at the top) fixed with the new WNL-mod (if that's even possible, I think Lust said something about a possible fix in one of the streams)?

Looks nice anyway, hoping for some interesting streams, good luck.
 

Killfacer

Marquis
WB
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@ Modus- Yeah fair points. The rules were largely just a copy paste job I believe. Will go over them this evening and root out any mistakes. Regarding the map pool nothing is set in stone as of yet. Will probably cut 1 or 2 maps so the pool's a little smaller but we'll see.

@Relax - Actually agree, I probably did go a little overboard bringing new maps in last WNL. Probably overcompensating for the lack of new maps we've had in the past. Suffice to say that I don't think we will be adding new maps for this tournament. Though one or two of the ones we added such as Fort of Honour and Verloren will be kept.
 

Killfacer

Marquis
WB
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Think it's actually all ready to go, will try and get it up tomorrow. If not then certainly before the weekend.
 

Killfacer

Marquis
WB
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yourNotAlone said:
Why was this tourney name European whatever tourney when muricans were accepted in it?
Because they'll have to play at European times on European servers against European teams.
 

yourNotAlone

Sergeant Knight at Arms
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Killfacer said:
yourNotAlone said:
Why was this tourney name European whatever tourney when muricans were accepted in it?
Because they'll have to play at European times on European servers against European teams.
Okay. I did not get it just by reading the tourney's name.
 

ThunderonCZ

Knight
WB
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So Mountain Fortress will be in I just wanna ask is It that updated version which I posted after WNL? Not that which is in current admin tools.
 

Arch3r

Count
M&BWBNW
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There was this suggestion I made to Deacon earlier, which he said he would consider.

Have several successive matches of the tournament be played on the same Map + Faction setup

In my opinion practicing a new map every week or in even less time (f.e. last match played was on Sunday, while the next match is arranged on Thursday, which leaves only 3 days to practice) makes it so maps and faction setups are practiced half-arsed. Interesting and varying tactics are pretty rare because not only is there a lot of matches to be practiced, all matches require completely unique practice. As a commander myself I must say that this isn't fun at all.

The benefits of having multiple matches played on the same setup are, even if it's just 2 matches on the same setup in a row:
- More interesting matches to both play and watch as training for a map+faction setup is more rewarding and thus done more often.
- It reduces the amount of work commanders have to do.
- Competitive games such as League of Legends or sport likes soccer are always played on the same field/map. If anything it only makes the game/sport a better competitive environment.

A disadvantage could of course be that there's less variety in the tournament, but more often than not some if not most maps were played twice anyway. In this case you could already pick up old strategies and adapt them to the different factions, but honestly I don't see how this variety benefits the quality of the tournament.

Conclusion:
Playing 2 matches in 2 weeks on the same setup doesn't change the pacing or deadlines of the tournament nor is a very drastic rule change. Yet it does offer some advantages.
 

Scar

Prussian Immortal
Marquis
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Arch3r said:
There was this suggestion I made to Deacon earlier, which he said he would consider.

Have several successive matches of the tournament be played on the same Map + Faction setup

In my opinion practicing a new map every week or in even less time (f.e. last match played was on Sunday, while the next match is arranged on Thursday, which leaves only 3 days to practice) makes it so maps and faction setups are practiced half-arsed. Interesting and varying tactics are pretty rare because not only is there a lot of matches to be practiced, all matches require completely unique practice. As a commander myself I must say that this isn't fun at all.

The benefits of having multiple matches played on the same setup are, even if it's just 2 matches on the same setup in a row:
- More interesting matches to both play and watch as training for a map+faction setup is more rewarding and thus done more often.
- It reduces the amount of work commanders have to do.
- Competitive games such as League of Legends or sport likes soccer are always played on the same field/map. If anything it only makes the game/sport a better competitive environment.

A disadvantage could of course be that there's less variety in the tournament, but more often than not some if not most maps were played twice anyway. In this case you could already pick up old strategies and adapt them to the different factions, but honestly I don't see how this variety benefits the quality of the tournament.

Conclusion:
Playing 2 matches in 2 weeks on the same setup doesn't change the pacing or deadlines of the tournament nor is a very drastic rule change. Yet it does offer some advantages.
In my opinion it does effect the variety of the tournament - just imagine we have 6 streams per weekend. Whilst some people already find 6 streams on the same map with the same factions rather boring, how is this gonna look like with 12 streams? For me as a player, I love playing on as many different maps as possible, because playing on Nord Town for the 100th time isn't really enjoyable nor exciting anymore, we are all used to the way teams generally play certain maps. Also, the maps the teams are going to play on have been around for quiet some time now, the latest additions being Fort of Honour and Verloren. So it's not like commanders have to create completely new tactics, they already have a pool of old strategies for these maps.

Furthermore, I don't think that League of Legends is a good comparison. In LoL the Champions have a huge impact on the way teams play, not really the map. New champions are getting created, the game is getting patched (Champions, Items, Jungle) every month, so the meta keeps changing. In Warband you will always be limited to the three classes, infantry, ranger and cavarly.
 

Arch3r

Count
M&BWBNW
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I don't think the disadvantage, being variety, outweighs the advantages though. I believe there's fun in mastering maps, coming up with new ways to play a map to gain an advantage. Also, when have there ever been 6 streams a weekend?

And League of Legends is a pretty good comparison, since it's the pinnacle of competitive gaming. Sure there's champions giving variety here, but in Warband there's 8 players instead of 5, which can have any class lay-out (as opposed to a pretty strict meta in LoL). Also, you entirely ignored my comment that maps are often played twice in the tournament anyways. For convenience sake, why not play them successively.
 

Scar

Prussian Immortal
Marquis
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Arch3r said:
I don't think the disadvantage, being variety, outweighs the advantages though. I believe there's fun in mastering maps, coming up with new ways to play a map to gain an advantage. Also, when have there ever been 6 streams a weekend?

And League of Legends is a pretty good comparison, since it's the pinnacle of competitive gaming. Sure there's champions giving variety here, but in Warband there's 8 players instead of 5, which can have any class lay-out (as opposed to a pretty strict meta in LoL). Also, you entirely ignored my comment that maps are often played twice in the tournament anyways. For convenience sake, why not play them successively.
Everyone is mastering the maps already, since the EN(P)L or at least WNL. As I said, I'm sure also you already have a number of strategies for certain maps. And you are right, there hasn't been a weekend with 6 streams but with 5 during WNL2 Week 3 and 8. Since we are planning on covering even more matches than during WNL2, I think 6 is a relalistic number.

No, you can't compare LoL and Warband just because LoL is one of the most esportsy games. Warband just doesn't work like LoL. Surely you can see that 115 Champions + Runes + Masteries + Summoner Spells > 8 players that can pick from 3 classes. And also this factor is limited is reality since 8 Cav on Nord Town just won't work (if both teams play seriously).

Last but not least, regarding this tournament maps will only be played once, so I don't see how this would come in.
 

nedsat

Squire
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A better comparison than LoL is probably Counter strike where during a tournament you'll play a handfull or more different maps. Also as Scar points out I think we've played every map a fair amount of times so that starting from stract when making tactics is only happening when new maps are created and added to our map list.