Do the developers even care? MP is about to be empty for good.

[Bloc]

so we need a few months time before anything is fixed, you guys are too impatient.

Highly optimistic point of view to expect them to fix something in a few months where there is a cold fact that they failed to do that within ~8 years.

Even though this thread is complaining about MP, I'm also very unsatisfied with SP content and overall optimization in the game as well. It's not just bugs but there are some things embedded inside the game that they can't "fix" without making drastic changes which annoys me a lot (i.e. static maps) and I'm 99,99% sure that TW won't bother to change it unless everything else is fine and current state of game - optimization, MP, SP - is far away from being fine. Game still feels like a tech demo that you give to press in E3 or Gamescom. The only difference is they are pruning everything that might cause the issue, regardless of their importance or how it might affect the feel for players.

To be perfectly clear, getting mad at devs is useless because nearly all of the things that you are complaining is out of their hands. They don't decide what to fix. They can't randomly open the code and "Let's fix this stuff because I saw in the forum". This is not how a company works. They have their own backlogs and Scrum meetings and they fix only things that are on their current sprint.
Feel free to get mad at Community people if you like. It's their job to report community complaints. However, you can't also be sure that this is Community Managers' problem because it's also possible that they are reporting everything they find but team tech leads are not just putting these to their work-path for devs to fix.

 

[Delinard]

At one point i was somehow only one in que.

Asking for a friend.

 

[Shemaforash]

Highly optimistic point of view to expect them to fix something in a few months where there is a cold fact that they failed to do that within ~8 years.

They didn't really fix much in alpha or beta for bannerlord either

 

[Helz]

I worry that TW decided MP is not monetisable, not because it couldn't be popular, but the invest/return ratio is not as good as SP.

In SP games someone buys the game, they enjoy it for 10, 100, maybe 500 hours then maybe revisits it once a while not really expecting many changes.

In MP games, we expect constant updates and patches to expand gameplay and change meta. If your model is based on a single sale on initial purchase, like Bannerlord, MP is a constant drain on revenue, whilst once SP is passive income once completed.

I must point out that Mount and Blade: Warband was in the top 15 for average time played on Steam for years. In all that time, there were basically zero updates to MP. For years, every time Warband went on sale or had a free weekend, regular players pitched the hell out of it and it spiked on the sales chart. Word of mouth matters and I personally know of at least 5 friends that I convinced to buy the game because I was so hooked on the MP.

 

[MArdA TaleWorlds]

You can check the patch notes so far here for what we have done and you can check this topic for our statement regarding plans for the multiplayer for the near future.
It is sad to see the community's reaction regarding the game so far but let it be known that we did not abandon the game. The expectations of the community are something we are striving to meet. We are aware of the issues that surround the gameplay and we are hoping to fix those in the near future that suits both our design and the communities expectations. We are working very hard to improve overall server stability, fixing crashes and other issues. But most of the time, these issues are not easy to fix or not as what they are seen to be from the players' point of view. The fixing, testing and the overall process takes a considerable amount of time.

Thanks for your support and time to write your thoughts and criticism to us in the forums.

 

[artiedee]

Good luck devs, game dev is tough.

 

[Zoonanay]

I must point out that Mount and Blade: Warband was in the top 15 for average time played on Steam for years. In all that time, there were basically zero updates to MP. For years, every time Warband went on sale or had a free weekend, regular players pitched the hell out of it and it spiked on the sales chart. Word of mouth matters and I personally know of at least 5 friends that I convinced to buy the game because I was so hooked on the MP.

From 2015 onwards I could agree there were few updates, but prior. The NW DLC was a pretty major update and affirmation of the modding community that brought thousands, Viking Conquest had a 25 point 3 month spread gain, Reforged almost a 40 point gain.

But, as you say, everytime it went on sale, is when it really boomed. Sadly, it is discounted from market price, this hits your profit margins hard. Warband had an astute following of dedicated players, but it's about as monetiseable as Gmod. Its a passive source of income to support other projects, like Facepunch did with Rust, a game with a highly monetisable MP and consistent player base much more economically desirable than a mod-community based MP game which only booms during discounted sales.

If TW wanted to fix MP they should've started by now. It's been more than enough time for a design lead to outline a direction and assorted dev leads to finish previous sprints and direct their teams to new ones. Maybe this has started? And we've just been left out the loop? But I'm somewhat doubting it at this point.

I imagine they don't really care about MP as SP is what is going to make them money on full release, then focus will be directed to MP in a mad dash to get DLC content out which is the second biggest money maker. It's a bit of a conservative strategy but I guess they didn't expect 150 million from EA sales alone.

 

[Dextrus]

They care about pushing their own vision, not about giving the players what they want.
To say the very least however, this vision isn't good, and community pushback against it seems to have caused Taleworlds to stop updating MP entirely, presumably because they know we won't be happy with whatever minor percentage tweaks they would give us.
During beta, each update was one step forward, one step back. The community would highlight something that needed fixing, and Taleworlds would fix this issue only to reintroduce it a few months down the line.

The shield durability conundrum
- Shield durability is in a good state, just enough to protect you for a limited amount of time, but would break after a while.
- Taleworlds inexplicably increase shield durability by multitudes of what it previously was. No reason was given. Shields then never broke.
- Taleworlds rollback this change after community pushback.
- Taleworlds reintroduce insane shield durability.
- Taleworlds decrease shield durability by small increments for the following months after community backlash.
- Shields are still insanely durable today, and don't demand any attention given from players.

The blocking debacle
- Block delay exists and is awful.
- Block delay gets removed due to community pushback.
- Block delay gets reintroduced.
- Block delay gets removed due to community pushback.
- Block delay gets reintroduced.
- Block delay gets removed due to community pushback.
- Block delay gets reintroduced.

Here's a little more ****, since we're at it
- Chamber blocking doesn't work, never addressed

- Kicking is useless, never addressed

- Attack delay exists and is garbage, never addressed.

- Stance system exists and is garbage, never properly addressed.

Most importantly however, almost all of the combat changes that were actually made were directed to removing symptoms of underlying issues, rather than fixing the underlying issues themselves. Many adjustments to the stance system were made during the beta, and as a result the game does play better, but the stance system itself is so bloated and convoluted that its existence prevents the game from ever feeling good to play.

I don't know where I'm going with this post. I guess my point is Taleworlds don't know where they're going with the multiplayer either. It feels ****ty to say this, since I can see how someone and Taleworlds might see this and take offense, but whoever's in charge of MP has no idea what they're doing. Everything about it is wrong on a fundamental level.

- Bad class system
- Bad currency gain system
- Bad gamemodes
- Terrible balance as a result of these issues
- Boring, one-dimensional, symmetrical maps
- Inexplicable focus on competitive play, despite bad combat
- Awful combat

MP is an incoherent mess that can't be fixed without a major shift in design philosophy.
Is this shift something that will ever occur to Taleworlds? I don't believe so. Would be nice if it did though.
[/QUOTE

They care about pushing their own vision, not about giving the players what they want.
To say the very least however, this vision isn't good, and community pushback against it seems to have caused Taleworlds to stop updating MP entirely, presumably because they know we won't be happy with whatever minor percentage tweaks they would give us.
During beta, each update was one step forward, one step back. The community would highlight something that needed fixing, and Taleworlds would fix this issue only to reintroduce it a few months down the line.

The shield durability conundrum
- Shield durability is in a good state, just enough to protect you for a limited amount of time, but would break after a while.
- Taleworlds inexplicably increase shield durability by multitudes of what it previously was. No reason was given. Shields then never broke.
- Taleworlds rollback this change after community pushback.
- Taleworlds reintroduce insane shield durability.
- Taleworlds decrease shield durability by small increments for the following months after community backlash.
- Shields are still insanely durable today, and don't demand any attention given from players.

The blocking debacle
- Block delay exists and is awful.
- Block delay gets removed due to community pushback.
- Block delay gets reintroduced.
- Block delay gets removed due to community pushback.
- Block delay gets reintroduced.
- Block delay gets removed due to community pushback.
- Block delay gets reintroduced.

Here's a little more ****, since we're at it
- Chamber blocking doesn't work, never addressed

- Kicking is useless, never addressed

- Attack delay exists and is garbage, never addressed.

- Stance system exists and is garbage, never properly addressed.

Most importantly however, almost all of the combat changes that were actually made were directed to removing symptoms of underlying issues, rather than fixing the underlying issues themselves. Many adjustments to the stance system were made during the beta, and as a result the game does play better, but the stance system itself is so bloated and convoluted that its existence prevents the game from ever feeling good to play.

I don't know where I'm going with this post. I guess my point is Taleworlds don't know where they're going with the multiplayer either. It feels ****ty to say this, since I can see how someone and Taleworlds might see this and take offense, but whoever's in charge of MP has no idea what they're doing. Everything about it is wrong on a fundamental level.

- Bad class system
- Bad currency gain system
- Bad gamemodes
- Terrible balance as a result of these issues
- Boring, one-dimensional, symmetrical maps
- Inexplicable focus on competitive play, despite bad combat
- Awful combat

MP is an incoherent mess that can't be fixed without a major shift in design philosophy.
Is this shift something that will ever occur to Taleworlds? I don't believe so. Would be nice if it did though.

Ah come on you are making it too easy for yourself. Chamber blocking does exist, ist just really hard to pull of and really risky. It needs a buff but it does work if you know how.

Kicking works? I just think you don’t know how it works because you haven’t actually played the game since April and just run around the forum and blame the game.

The block and swing delay is not existent. The devs have confirmed this and if you would actually duel and play with good players who are active and step out of your forum warrior bubble you would see it.

The stance system works fine for combo swings but it is hard to see and even harder to master in a real fight.

the skirmish game mode is a more difficult issue. It adds tactical depth but the level design is hard because you need to balance spawn points, the distance between flags and the freedom you give players in interacting with the map.

sorry for the bad formatting and for talking up against your constant unqualified barrage of just pure nonsense. I feel like you have never played the game on a higher level. Maybe you should train with the DM guys so they can teach you a thing or two about the game mechanics and after 100 hours of playing on their level you can judge again on how useless the kick is or how bad the stances are.

 

[Maroon]

You can check the patch notes so far here for what we have done and you can check this topic for our statement regarding plans for the multiplayer for the near future.
It is sad to see the community's reaction regarding the game so far but let it be known that we did not abandon the game. The expectations of the community are something we are striving to meet. We are aware of the issues that surround the gameplay and we are hoping to fix those in the near future that suits both our design and the communities expectations. We are working very hard to improve overall server stability, fixing crashes and other issues. But most of the time, these issues are not easy to fix or not as what they are seen to be from the players' point of view. The fixing, testing and the overall process takes a considerable amount of time.

Thanks for your support and time to write your thoughts and criticism to us in the forums.

With all respect, Arda, I don't think anyone in their right mind is asking for you to fix all of our problems in like a week. Of course you're working hard on the game, and of course it takes time. Those who expect massive changes in a short amount of time are idiots and should be called out for it.

That doesn't take away that the writing was on the wall in July that this was going to happen. It's the very design ideas that you're (still, apparently) working towards that are causing MP to be abandoned. Server stability fixes, crash fixes, and other such issues resolved are great. That will ensure a stable experience for anyone who bothers to play MP in half a year. I'm guessing that will just be Tork and his "silent majority".

 

[Noudelle]

Ah come on you are making it too easy for yourself. Chamber blocking does exist, ist just really hard to pull of and really risky. It needs a buff but it does work if you know how.

I know how chamber blocking works. I know that it's too finnicky and inconsistent to be a reliable option.

Kicking works? I just think you don’t know how it works because you haven’t actually played the game since April and just run around the forum and blame the game.

That's my bad, last time I checked it was still useless.

The block and swing delay is not existent.

Bruh

If my comments here offend you, and if you think Bannerlord's combat is worth a ****, maybe you could try making your own threads explaining why the combat is actually good, and why I'm wrong. I've already made dozens of threads during the beta where I explain how the mechanics and design of the combat are flawed. I won't bother repeating these arguments for each and every comment that I make to justify myself constantly.

 

[Dextrus]

Bruh

Pls don’t bruh me.

If there is a block delay, how come there is people the duel the duel server who block everything?

When was the last time you checked kicking? Just curious?
Do I get a response on the other things you mentioned and I responded to?

 

[TheBard]

Noudelle, Kick Slashes are quite a thing in Bannerlord. You claim now a bit longer it's nonexistent. You can't argue with that one. It's not apparent and it works different as in Warband, but it is a thing which is quite commonly used in competitive matches as kill force and shield opener, DM is expert at it. You can ask Hairless, maybe he can instruct you. But please refrain from further saying it's non existant. Thanks.

---

Edit: To say something to Dextrus points, I feel a delay in blocking and that it's slower and different to Warband. Maybe I am too used to the old system. It's defenitely harder to do blocking in Bannerlord. If that's a bad or a good thing is not for me to decide, but this is not going to be Warband 2.0. The devs more or less established that. That doesn't mean for me that the Devs are doing everything right, I have openly criticized development decisions in this forums aswell..

 

[WMorton]

You can check the patch notes so far here for what we have done and you can check this topic for our statement regarding plans for the multiplayer for the near future.
It is sad to see the community's reaction regarding the game so far but let it be known that we did not abandon the game. The expectations of the community are something we are striving to meet. We are aware of the issues that surround the gameplay and we are hoping to fix those in the near future that suits both our design and the communities expectations. We are working very hard to improve overall server stability, fixing crashes and other issues. But most of the time, these issues are not easy to fix or not as what they are seen to be from the players' point of view. The fixing, testing and the overall process takes a considerable amount of time.

Thanks for your support and time to write your thoughts and criticism to us in the forums.

we have seen this stuff before, we dont need cool features like that we need things that will revive the community, not stimulized addons that keep the current player count on for an extra week. You need to add Battle Gamemode, something even noobs from Warband are asking for, and please make sure there is team damage when you impliment it so its not mob warfare like siege and tdm. I have 231 hours in beta and 248 hours in EA. I have not seen any significant change to multiplayer which will bring it out of the darkness so far. Please communicate better with the multiplayer community as you do with singleplayer, we want to believe in you but we have felt let down so far.

 

[Noudelle]

Pls don’t bruh me.

Too late

If there is a block delay, how come there is people the duel the duel server who block everything?

Doesn't mean there's no block delay. It's even been admitted to be in the game by a dev recently.

Spoiler

Attack delay is what really irks me though. Don't really know what to say to you if you think it doesn't exist honestly.

When was the last time you checked kicking? Just curious?

A while. I didn't see in any patch notes that kicks had been altered, so I reasonably assumed they hadn't been. Maybe I need to get my eyes checked though.

Do I get a response on the other things you mentioned and I responded to?

No. I've already explained my stance on the stance system dozens of times in the past, and I won't waste my time explaining again.
Read Silen's thread on the stance system if you want to know how I feel about it.

As for Skirmish, you don't need to sell me on it, I actually like it. Symmetrical maps however are a coward's way out for any developer.

Noudelle, Kick Slashes are quite a thing in Bannerlord. You claim now a bit longer it's nonexistent. You can't argue with that one.

That's my bad, I learned earlier today kicks had been changed.

 

[NewBritish]

most of the time, these issues are not easy to fix or not as what they are seen to be from the players' point of view. The fixing, testing and the overall process takes a considerable amount of time.

Thank you for writing back but this just isn't true. Not all complaints are equal. There is one map in particular that crashes over 90% of the time, while the others crash rarely. Why is that map still in the rotation? The team tried to fix a backdoor and made map edits (which didn't even work), which would obviously be a lot harder than removing the map. This would immediately increase player count when there isn't a 1/3 chance the game is over in 5 minutes just by getting a map.

I understand that complaints such as those demanding changes to the class system would take a huge amount of time, but there are very fast changes which are being ignored.

 

[MArdA TaleWorlds]

snip

I was not aware of this issue. Forwarding to QA. This issue should have been faced in the tests before. Which we are doing before sending any patch. And yes, we are testing every scene before sending a patch. The reason might not be related to map but we will investigate. Do you have any idea which map it might be?

 

[Dextrus]

Oke I am sorry I have but I am typing this out on mobile.

Can we agree on that there is no flat block delay? Because your screenshot says that there isn’t and who else to trust but a dev.
In a duel, 1 hand sword vs 1 Hand sword, the playing field is the same for both players. On the battlefield, the player who picks the heavy menavlion enjoys different advantages than the Battania clan warrior who runs at you with only a club and a small shield
I fell like that it is fair that there is a longer block delay for heavier weapons. Why should a long or heavy menavlion have the same block speed as a club while being able to deal 70-90 damage per swing?

concerning the swing delay.
Your first video shows a difference. I agree but it is however a different game. You can get used to it because it is not that much to completely throw you off your warband gameplay. And who knows maybe you have to even get used to the new mechanics and adapt.
Your video shows that the longer you hold you swing, the longer the attack is delayed.
It is different from warband no doubt but it actually adds to the duel experience imo because now you those classical holding feints are riskier and trying to go for another swing while your opponent is getting ready to get his feint on is now a risky but rewarding strategy in a duel.

Regarding kicks:
I have never claimed that kicks were patched. I claimed that you just don’t know how to use them. If you were actually active and participating in any higher level of play in Bannerlord you would know that they are used frequently in 1v1, 1v2 etc scenarios to break your “op shields”. As you can see, played have figured out ways to break defensive shield players. But please, keep on pouting away to patches to fix issues that don’t even exist just because you never figured how to use the game mechanics.

Regarding stances:
I agree with the post you linked and therefore with you. But I don’t think they are useless, they are just really hard to pull of and use consistently and need work but they are not broken or useless or whatever. They just need development.

Disclaimer: There are certainly things to work on. The combat is not perfect and I also find the lack of communication by TaleWorlds lack luster. I am tired though of the same posts by the same group of people claiming the whole game is broken and sucks, while this same group barely plays the Game. Maybe the players of more active clans should join the discussion instead of old warband veterans who want warband 2.0.

To you noudelle:
I encourage you to sign up as a merc for the beast tournament and actually play a higher level of Bannerlord. Maybe you get a newer, updated perspective.

 

[NewBritish]

. This issue should have been faced in the tests before. Which we are doing before sending any patch. And yes, we are testing every scene before sending a patch. The reason might not be related to map but we will investigate. Do you have any idea which map it might be?

Thank you for your response. Baravenos Encirclement is the map.

 

[MArdA TaleWorlds]

Thank you for your response. Baravenos Encirclement is the map.

The server is crashing not your game, right?

 

[Noudelle]

Spoiler

Oke I am sorry I have but I am typing this out on mobile.

Can we agree on that there is no flat block delay? Because your screenshot says that there isn’t and who else to trust but a dev.
In a duel, 1 hand sword vs 1 Hand sword, the playing field is the same for both players. On the battlefield, the player who picks the heavy menavlion enjoys different advantages than the Battania clan warrior who runs at you with only a club and a small shield
I fell like that it is fair that there is a longer block delay for heavier weapons. Why should a long or heavy menavlion have the same block speed as a club while being able to deal 70-90 damage per swing?

concerning the swing delay.
Your first video shows a difference. I agree but it is however a different game. You can get used to it because it is not that much to completely throw you off your warband gameplay. And who knows maybe you have to even get used to the new mechanics and adapt.
Your video shows that the longer you hold you swing, the longer the attack is delayed.
It is different from warband no doubt but it actually adds to the duel experience imo because now you those classical holding feints are riskier and trying to go for another swing while your opponent is getting ready to get his feint on is now a risky but rewarding strategy in a duel.

Regarding kicks:
I have never claimed that kicks were patched. I claimed that you just don’t know how to use them. If you were actually active and participating in any higher level of play in Bannerlord you would know that they are used frequently in 1v1, 1v2 etc scenarios to break your “op shields”. As you can see, played have figured out ways to break defensive shield players. But please, keep on pouting away to patches to fix issues that don’t even exist just because you never figured how to use the game mechanics.

Regarding stances:
I agree with the post you linked and therefore with you. But I don’t think they are useless, they are just really hard to pull of and use consistently and need work but they are not broken or useless or whatever. They just need development.

Disclaimer: There are certainly things to work on. The combat is not perfect and I also find the lack of communication by TaleWorlds lack luster. I am tired though of the same posts by the same group of people claiming the whole game is broken and sucks, while this same group barely plays the Game. Maybe the players of more active clans should join the discussion instead of old warband veterans who want warband 2.0.

To you noudelle:
I encourage you to sign up as a merc for the beast tournament and actually play a higher level of Bannerlord. Maybe you get a newer, updated perspective.

Your argument boils down to "It's not bad, just new and different. Just get used to it."
Do you know how many times this same lazy argument has been made in the past year? If you had actually bothered to check my previous threads and feedback and those of other critical forum members from back during the beta (Gab, Marko, Charlini, Gibby, Brandis, Count Delinard, Klausolus), you'd know that this lazy argument does not apply.
We've all learned how to play the game, and we've all come to the conclusion that it's not good.
Gab somehow has 500 hours logged into this. Are you going to tell me he needs to get used to it a little more to appreciate it better?

No, I will not sign up to a tournament for a game I don't enjoy playing.