Distinguishing Cav groups 3, 7, and 8

[PanzerSchutzen]

I saw in a youtube video that the "Groups" also represent various AI profiles. I've tried to do testing in custom battles but every time I set myself as the "attacker" the enemy still comes at me so I can't really do the testing I want to do....

I just wanted to confirm how the cav AI handles the F3, F4, and F6 commands. It's my understanding (from various youtube videos and perusing this forum this afternoon) that Charge simply has them attack the closest thing with no regard for anything. But Advance should result in them preferring certain targets based on what group they're in.

It's my understanding that light cav will target infantry (Why is that? That seems counterintuitive to me...) And heavy cav will target enemy cav first.

In my limited 'testing' in custom battles I *think* I observed behavior confirming this but the enemy forces just come at you with cav up front and infantry just behind them so it's tough to distinguish after the initial charge when infantry and cav collide.

I'll test the light and heavy cav groups during my SP playthroughs....just wondering if any of you had any definitive input from looking at the source code or from your own observations in-game.

Thanks!


********************* Yes, I searched the forums by using the search tool and several iterations of "heavy cav AI", "Cavalry grouping AI", etc. Nothing pertinent popped up.

*********************You know how when you start a battle and the enemy cav/mounted archers just come straight for you? We all experience this, right? I'll usually set my Cav Group 3 to charge or advance and they'll intercept for the most part but some will then head off towards the main body well in advance of my meticulously-prepared defenses. Other than simply baby-sitting the cav, how do you guys deal with this? My first playthrough I was mounted but this time I'm trying to play on foot and among the foot soldiers as much as possible and don't want to babysit the cav. I want them to screen and NOT engage enemy infantry and F6 doesn't cut it either. Any input would be appreciated.

 

[BigBlock]

What I've seen in my playthroughs using Cav (group 3) and Archer Cav (group 4) is that Cav set to charge will individually, not as a cohesive unit, charge the nearest enemy. Advance has them move as a group going after enemy Archer Cav, then Cav, then archers, then infantry, in that order. However I haven't seen them cycle-charge using advance, they simply charge into the enemy group and then stand and fight until that group is dead or they're dead. I have seen them charge through infantry to advance on archers though, but once at the archers, they stand and fight to the death with the archers. When I set them to advance at the beginning of a battle, they'll take out archer cav, then cav, then archers. Then I set them to charge as they reach the archers and they'll cycle charge the archers before cycle charging the infantry, but I think that's because at that point, they're closest to the archers.

Archer cav, set to charge, will chase down other archer cav, then cav, and then encircle infantry/archers, but I think that has to do with what enemy formation is closest. When I place them close to inf/archers and then set the charge command, they ignore enemy cav that is back at my lines fighting my cav and just encircle the enemy defensive position.. When I use the advance command with archer cav, they act like skirmishing archers with more mobility. The downside is their horses get hit a lot from enemy arrows since they're no longer constantly moving laterally to the enermy archers and they end up on foot and vulnerable. Works well on an infantry heavy enemy if I want them to advance on my position though, as they chase my archer cav.

As for babysitting, you'll have to micro your cav in order to keep them from engaging enemy infantry. The advance command does a better job of this as they stay together as a unit, engaging enermy archer cav and archers and then you can pull them back before they try to engage enemy archers through a line of enemy infantry.To avoid that line of infantry, I'll usually flank my cav around after they've taken down the enemy cav and archer cav and hit their arrows from behind using the advance command right about when my foot archers get in range of enemy inf followed by my own inf line to keep their interest. Otherwise their inf line will turn and charge your cav as it hits their archers.

 

[PanzerSchutzen]

What I've seen in my playthroughs using Cav (group 3) and Archer Cav (group 4) is that Cav set to charge will individually, not as a cohesive unit, charge the nearest enemy. Advance has them move as a group going after enemy Archer Cav, then Cav, then archers, then infantry, in that order. However I haven't seen them cycle-charge using advance, they simply charge into the enemy group and then stand and fight until that group is dead or they're dead. I have seen them charge through infantry to advance on archers though, but once at the archers, they stand and fight to the death with the archers. When I set them to advance at the beginning of a battle, they'll take out archer cav, then cav, then archers. Then I set them to charge as they reach the archers and they'll cycle charge the archers before cycle charging the infantry, but I think that's because at that point, they're closest to the archers.

Archer cav, set to charge, will chase down other archer cav, then cav, and then encircle infantry/archers, but I think that has to do with what enemy formation is closest. When I place them close to inf/archers and then set the charge command, they ignore enemy cav that is back at my lines fighting my cav and just encircle the enemy defensive position.. When I use the advance command with archer cav, they act like skirmishing archers with more mobility. The downside is their horses get hit a lot from enemy arrows since they're no longer constantly moving laterally to the enermy archers and they end up on foot and vulnerable. Works well on an infantry heavy enemy if I want them to advance on my position though, as they chase my archer cav.

As for babysitting, you'll have to micro your cav in order to keep them from engaging enemy infantry. The advance command does a better job of this as they stay together as a unit, engaging enermy archer cav and archers and then you can pull them back before they try to engage enemy archers through a line of enemy infantry.To avoid that line of infantry, I'll usually flank my cav around after they've taken down the enemy cav and archer cav and hit their arrows from behind using the advance command right about when my foot archers get in range of enemy inf followed by my own inf line to keep their interest. Otherwise their inf line will turn and charge your cav as it hits their archers.

Thank you; I'll give it a shot implementing Advance more and watching how they react.

For Group 4 I normally just F6 from the get-go and they seem to do well enough but you're right that they tend to circle the enemy main body rather than deal with the enemy cav or archer cav :-\

I wish there was a clearer delineation because learning these from scratch wasn't that obvious (and like many here I assume we've all played various Total War or other strategy titles).

I hope they implement "Engagement Criteria" or prioritization at the start of a battle whenever they fix the leadership/tactics perks. It would be nice to set archers to always skirmish or for heavy cav to exclusively target enemy cav and to disengage from infantry until explicitly directed by the player. Love the combat system but I think this added complexity would take things to a new level

 

[BigBlock]

I'm a big fan of the combat too, but definitly needs some more fine control. I'd like to be able to issue orders like the sergeants do when you hand over control. You can see what I mean if you watch messages in the left corner when you f6 your whole army. It seems like the framework is there, just the player can't access it directly. Hope it's in the pipe to give us that fine control.

And being able to place and move units like in TW... the click and drag formations. It's there and works sometimes, but some refinement would be awesome.