Dev Blog 25/10/18

[parsehtml]<p><img class="frame" src="https://www.taleworlds.com/Images/News/blog_post_63_taleworldswebsite.jpg" alt="" width="575" height="290" /></p> <p>Artificial intelligence (AI) is one of the most important features of any single player game. Getting it right is key to the experience: it has to be almost invisible, so players (sort of) forget that they are playing against a machine. It has to be clever and fast enough to be a worthy opponent, but not too much – humans are fallible, after all; and ultimately the player, as the hero of the story, is supposed to win. It has to make use of the game mechanics at hand, not just to be fun and varied but to show the player what can be done. This rings especially true in a game such as Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord, where skill-based combat and epic large-scale battles are at the core of the experience.</p></br> [/parsehtml]Read more at: http://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Blog/83

 

[AmateurHetman]

For next week’s blog can we get loads of images with the q&a?

 

[NPC99]

What worries me about all this is that the individual becomes part of the group as a whole. Attacking, defending, moving and retreating together is something that has not been seen in the different gameplays (possibly due to tactical shortcomings of the human player) and that Taleworlds has not done emphasis on showing directly and properly (to date) only have been seen shield wall, lines and some circular formation purely defensive.
At the time of giving the order to attack, the active/npc follows badly the order to attack in group breaking the formation of this one and carrying out "the hateful melee of the chaos".
How do these formations affect in an active or passive way? How does the ia handle an attack in formation against a devense in formation? Bonifications? Is it possible through the use of formations to perform advanced human tactics vs. machine or is everything reduced to the melee ball? Many unresolved questions .

It’s difficult to judge from cavalry formations or small scale multiplayer captain battles. I always liked the following infantry sergeant game footage where formation orders need refreshing and halts to dress the lines. Some element of chaos adds to the realism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0cBJjpm5QM&t=5m0s

 

[White Lion]

Nice blog my dudes.

 

[Lord Engineer (Castor)]

Nice to see a blog covering such an important subject. AI is a big part of the combat in Mount & Blade and any improvements are welcome, keep up the good work.

 

[formergamer]

This is probably one reason how they got it wrong

http://www.manchuarchery.org/images/wufu.jpg

There is another photo that I couldn't find where a circus person was pulling a few bows at the same time.  The bow location was like the devs.  Either as a circus trick, or to help re-straighten the bow.  Don't remember which one.  But it is not used in real situations.

The string in that pic is actually attached to the correct points on the bow, if you look it continues past where it seems to connect and is looped around the ends of the bow, as is correct. I'm not sure what the other attachments are for, but I suppose it's possible that they are some kind of 'pulley' system, which would make this a very early example of a compound bow . Whatever the reason, that bow is technically strung correctly, with something else I'm not sure the purpose of.

Either way, this doesn't bother me that much, and while I hope it's fixed, I probably wouldn't notice if it was still in the final game, as hopefully I'll be much more focused on the cav bearing down on me, or the infantry formation charging me to look at how my archers strung their bows

Sorry I didn't add enough words to clarify my view.  I think the mistake came because the animator's perception only saw where the bow string touched the bow and not exactly where it ended.  My picture above was to show that the bow string ends at the nocks and not by the bridge. 

 

[formergamer]

This is probably one reason how they got it wrong

http://www.manchuarchery.org/images/wufu.jpg

There is another photo that I couldn't find where a circus person was pulling a few bows at the same time.  The bow location was like the devs.  Either as a circus trick, or to help re-straighten the bow.  Don't remember which one.  But it is not used in real situations.

The string in that pic is actually attached to the correct points on the bow, if you look it continues past where it seems to connect and is looped around the ends of the bow, as is correct. I'm not sure what the other attachments are for, but I suppose it's possible that they are some kind of 'pulley' system, which would make this a very early example of a compound bow . Whatever the reason, that bow is technically strung correctly, with something else I'm not sure the purpose of.

Either way, this doesn't bother me that much, and while I hope it's fixed, I probably wouldn't notice if it was still in the final game, as hopefully I'll be much more focused on the cav bearing down on me, or the infantry formation charging me to look at how my archers strung their bows

It seems a lot of people don't care much about this. But I am curius how would everyone react if there were swords with cross guard on the bottom and axe's with head in the middle of the shaft etc...

By the way that bow is a mongolian bow with little 'stools'. It is actually one of the advanced compount bows. When the string hits the stool, it adds a little more speed to the arrow.

The correct term is "string bridge."

 

[froggyluv]

When it says the combat AI doesn't 'cheat', does that apply to Line of Sight?

The player obviously will be restricted to what they can actually see of the battlefield from their own character's position. Does the AI automatically know where everyone and everything in the battle scene is at all times?

It uses every piece of information that a player would have access to (although, perhaps slightly more detailed and accurate than a player’s guesstimates) to make its decisions.

Well that doesnt mean much as IIRC the Player is given full location of all enemies on Battle Map -meaning everyone know where everyone is at all times. As great as I believe Taleworlds has done with AI combat (tops really), LOS and 'just knowing everyones position' is by far its biggest weakness. Imagine the game we could have should we (or the AI General) be able to send out small Ambush parties that the enemy doesnt see, hidden in deep bush, only to spring to action as they pass to its flanks. Unlimited scenarios such as this would be possible had they developed this much needed part of the game.

 

[Callum]

I have passed on all of the feedback regarding the bows to the art team and will update you all when I know more!

 

[CaptainLee]

I have passed on all of the feedback regarding the bows to the art team and will update you all when I know more!

Please ensure the guilty parties are fired...

...out of a cannon, into the Sun.

 

[sermen]

When it comes to AI please no more leming trains.

 

[Triune Impurity Rites 999]

I have passed on all of the feedback regarding the bows to the art team and will update you all when I know more!

Please ensure the guilty parties are fired...

...out of a cannon, into the Sun.

I WANT THEM SACKED.

 

[Noudelle]

I have passed on all of the feedback regarding the bows to the art team and will update you all when I know more!

nice

 

[Kortze26]

Is it possible that Callum, not being listened to by the 3D artist team, included that archer pic intent of getting the community to support his desire to fix the erroneous design?  dun dun dun...  Sly move Callum, figuring out how to use leverage to get what you want.

 

[lolbash]

Spoiler

When it says the combat AI doesn't 'cheat', does that apply to Line of Sight?

The player obviously will be restricted to what they can actually see of the battlefield from their own character's position. Does the AI automatically know where everyone and everything in the battle scene is at all times?

It uses every piece of information that a player would have access to (although, perhaps slightly more detailed and accurate than a player’s guesstimates) to make its decisions.

Well that doesnt mean much as IIRC the Player is given full location of all enemies on Battle Map -meaning everyone know where everyone is at all times. As great as I believe Taleworlds has done with AI combat (tops really), LOS and 'just knowing everyones position' is by far its biggest weakness. Imagine the game we could have should we (or the AI General) be able to send out small Ambush parties that the enemy doesnt see, hidden in deep bush, only to spring to action as they pass to its flanks. Unlimited scenarios such as this would be possible had they developed this much needed part of the game.

You know you can just press the Backspace key in Warband  and you will see every single troop location?

 

[LordCanute]

Whoa crazy another update. Next try releasing an update on when the game is being released.

 

[DanAngleland]

You know you can just press the Backspace key in Warband  and you will see every single troop location?

I think that is exactly what froggyluv was saying, though it has been stated before that there is no such tactical map in Bannerlord, so it is worth discussing line of sight.

 

[KnotIC]

Awesome

 

[formergamer]

You know you can just press the Backspace key in Warband  and you will see every single troop location?

I think that is exactly what froggyluv was saying, though it has been stated before that there is no such tactical map in Bannerlord, so it is worth discussing line of sight.

Yes.  The line of sight has been annoying in warband.  When enemies charge in the middle, all your troops focus on the middle and disregards everything else.  This is especially annoying if you're spear bracing or shooting arrows.  Archers turn their attention to the closest. 


With that said, I think line of sight for ai should be more narrow like the traditional flashlight light picture.  Not 360 degrees. 

 

[formergamer]

About formations: it would be cool if we can order to our heavy infantry to brace their lance or pikes in this way

At least the first line to counter heavy cavalry charges.

This video has good information about the formations of the Roman legions in the republic

Spoiler

You know what I think is also cool.  Is if the formation mod is so easy to do that we can create our own formations using a program kind of like Open BRF.  But we can place all the individual we want and let them line up and face anyway we want them to and perform preset actions such as shield wall, brace pikes, etc.  And we should also be able to group more than one type of troops.  Have archers surround by a crouching pike wall.   

 

[Roccoflipside]

I understand you perfectly. It's the little details that make the difference... and if there are those who conform themselves by saying...bah the modders will fix it or bah is not so important, a dlc will be made with that content...
Standard bearer carrying banner next to a spear, spears that do not pierce but hit, blood pools, position of the hands on the knobs, bows, that a rider does not grab the reins, green dust stelae in forests, reflections of water, limits marked in general map ....etc....final retouches .....

Some guy say I dont care if in the heat of the battle the models are not correct, i dont look at them... Okay. But how much of your playtime are these specific moments?

What I dont understand, that they took the time, made the research, modelling, texturing, animating, put in all the effort and resources, and the end product is wrong.
Yes, modders can fix that, but I think, in an ideal world mods are for adding new content, features, etc. Not for fixing the vanilla game. (khmm Arma3)

Yeah, that was me. I also said I would prefer if these things would be fixed, but wouldn't be too upset if they were left the way they are.

For your information, almost all my playtime which would involve ai using their weapons, which would be when I noticed these things, are those specific moments... You may underestimate how many battles I fight on any given playthrough  . Seeing as how I didn't notice the bow was strung incorrectly until it was specifically mentioned in this thread, my personal point about not noticing in the heat of battle probably stands.

Also I agree, in a perfect world mods would focus on adding content/new ideas rather than fixing old ones.