Deflecting Arrows (and other perks)

[Lord Milky]

If you don't like the perk, don't choose it. If you do , then use it. The fact that it's a choice and not a compulsory skill , makes it benefit everyone.

 

[ArnulfFloyd]

Fun vs realism proposed by Rainbow Dash sounds very boring and nonsense, videogames despite many liberties are a mirror of real life, devs must reflect reality but in a good way for fit with game engine. Every game has a bit of realism, even RPGs in which magic is presented not let you to be unrealistic in situations. Bannerlord is a ARPG with heavy strategic, we will meet situations which appears during combat which seems realistically

 

[Gazzz]

It should be RNG (and if so, something small <15%) or not in the game at all.  It is being forgotten here that in the M&B community there are exceptionally talented players - is it a stretch to assume such players would also master the arrow blocking mechanics?  At that point you have 2Hers surpassing shield users in ranged defense and eliminating the primary weakness of using a 2H weapon.

Id rather it wasn't in the game at all, but if its at least not in multiplayer im ok with that i suppose as im not that bothered about singleplayer

 

[lolbash]

It is being forgotten here that in the M&B community there are exceptionally talented players - is it a stretch to assume such players would also master the arrow blocking mechanics?  At that point you have 2Hers surpassing shield users in ranged defense and eliminating the primary weakness of using a 2H weapon.

If that is the case then the Warband competitive community shpuld be dead in the ground and nonexistent. Why? Because Chambering is one of the hardest skills to master in multiplayer Warband.

With Chambering you can deflect couched lances, discourage attacking from opponents as a chambered attack always guarantees a free attack. In theory there would be no incentive to make a move as a Chamber can end your life if you dare go on the offensive.



But we both know the reality of Chambering. The timing to master iss too hard to learn and it's inconsistency has rendered it a feature everyone ignores.

My deflecting arrows solution is mean't to provide the same experience as Chambering.

Make it as hard as Chambering so that it is not a common occurence, but still leave enough room to have rare moments of saving a life from an arrow shot happen, because they are special.

Seriously, go read my solution. I think you will like it.

 

[Gazzz]

It is being forgotten here that in the M&B community there are exceptionally talented players - is it a stretch to assume such players would also master the arrow blocking mechanics?  At that point you have 2Hers surpassing shield users in ranged defense and eliminating the primary weakness of using a 2H weapon.

If that is the case then the Warband competitive community shpuld be dead in the ground and nonexistent. Why? Because Chambering is one of the hardest skills to master in multiplayer Warband.

With Chambering you can deflect couched lances, discourage attacking from opponents as a chambered attack always guarantees a free attack. In theory there would be no incentive to make a move as a Chamber can end your life if you dare go on the offensive.



But we both know the reality of Chambering. The timing to master iss too hard to learn and it's inconsistency has rendered it a feature everyone ignores.

My deflecting arrows solution is mean't to provide the same experience as Chambering.

Make it as hard as Chambering so that it is not a common occurence, but still leave enough room to have rare moments of saving a life from an arrow shot happen, because they are special.

Seriously, go read my solution. I think you will like it.

Thats because double swinging as shielder is preferred over chambering because its safer to do. Dont see many people walking about with 2h'ers on comp unless they are pissing around as any decent archer would have them However i would say that chambering is not hard if your playing against someone that doesnt do anything fancy nor anything that would be considered comp worthy anyway

 

[HunDeTroie]

Definitely no arrow deflecting perk. We are not a Witcher, nor a Jedi. Even if it's POSSIBLE to deflect an arrow with a sword, it's extremely uncommon and wasn't done on purpose. But it's fine if it's skilled based for a Star wars mod. Otherwise, it's not.

 

[Silen]

Definitely no arrow deflecting perk. We are not a Witcher, nor a Jedi. Even if it's POSSIBLE to deflect an arrow with a sword, it's extremely uncommon and wasn't done on purpose. But it's fine if it's skilled based for a Star wars mod. Otherwise, it's not.

Hitting two opponents with a single slash isn't possible at all in real life and resembles more a lightsaber strike than a normal blade, and yet it's in the game. Seeing the direction development is taking, I've grown to accept that Bannerlord isn't entirely based on reality, and if a feature is not so probable or realistic but adds to the gameplay I'm fine with it. So far, we don't know if and how it will be implemented in multiplayer, nor how exactly it will work in singleplayer apart from knowing that it's set on chance, and we're basing this discussion on a number of conjectures and speculation.

If it were done according to Rainbow's suggestion, it would be more of a rare occurrence than anything; a fun and uncommon event. Granted, fun is subjective and what might be so for me, might not be for you. If it were implemented in such way I suppose a server option to turn this on/off would not be a problem at all. In the end, since this is so subjective, it is up to the devs to establish if and how to keep it in the game. We'll have to see what they decide to do with it.

 

[ArnulfFloyd]

Hitting two people in a single slash was popularised by Star Wars, was fun in games based on that universe but unforyunely Bannerlord want M&B to be hack and slash glamor of The Witcher trilogy, I have hope as Bannerlord will do combat more strategically but with time I realise as TW want game to be loved by The Witcher and other RPG fanboys

 

[bladeex]

Hitting two people in a single slash was popularised by Star Wars, was fun in games based on that universe but unforyunely Bannerlord want M&B to be hack and slash glamor of The Witcher trilogy, I have hope as Bannerlord will do combat more strategically but with time I realise as TW want game to be loved by The Witcher and other RPG fanboys

Or they just want to make their own game with their own features,ideas.

 

[Reapy]

I think you just have to stop and look at the fact that not having a shield in warband will kill you super fast, in single player and especially in multiplayer (outside of the more chaotic modes).  It's well known that arrows carry vast amounts of salt because the bow user is having fun shooting people in a very save position while the person being micro stunned and damaged constantly with no way to retaliate or defend themselves.

I guess you can solve that by just having a shield and swapping to the 2h when you get in range, but I guess it would be interesting to finally allow load outs that include 2h and polearms without a shield.

I think there are some issues with trying to figure out how to defect arrows. I wonder if due to speed of the arrow, that lag might cause hit detection to be inconsistent if taking player input.

Also, it might accidentally proc too often. Picture a typical siege situation, you have swords swinging all over. If a sword swing has a window to deflect arrows, it might be next to impossible to fire into a mass of soldiers as all the swinging weapons are bound to knock an arrow away.

It seems having it as a perc that is just random chance if active solves some of those problems, however as people have said here, random procs aren't something that feel right in a warband setting.  I know we had random knockdowns, or at least it felt random, so maybe it can slip in there. 

In terms of multiplayer I couldn't see taking that perk though. You need 100% reliability, you'd want a shield. You can't rely on even a 50% chance that you aren't going to take an arrow to the head when charging archer positions unless you are pub brawling and having fun.

Overall I feel that this is an important thing to handle, in multiplayer and singleplayer.  Taking a random jav in the head just sort of sucks, and I know there's some examples in history, it still sort of sucks and limits viable weapon loadouts.

 

[wormydowg]

Let's all take a moment of silence for the modding community, for their time and effort that they will have to spend working on an overhaul that will make the game as realistic as possible.

I'm talking no cleaving.
No deflection perk. ( Skill based is alright, as long as it's super uncommon)
Arrows bounce off hard armor (given the distance, skill of Archer, and type of arrow; there are ways to balance this without completely disregarding it as a mechanic)

Anyone else like to add?

 

[ArnulfFloyd]

Modders will resolve all imbalances from native Bannerlord but deflecting arrows is a exceptionally rare case in reality because we can defend with shields

 

[wormydowg]

Modders will resolve all imbalances from native Bannerlord but deflecting arrows is a exceptionally rare case in reality because we can defend with shields

But I do like the idea of two handed soldiers getting a little bit of love. Even if its very small. Just why does it have to be a perk?

 

[Cpt. Nemo]

Because the entire point of two handed weapons is increased risk for massive damage.

 

[Silen]

Because the entire point of two handed weapons is increased risk for massive damage.

Based on Rainbow's suggestion, deflecting an arrow would be so rare that the value of risk would barely change at all.

Edit: To elaborate on that, I also wouldn't really say that two handed swords in Native deal massive damage as of now. A Rhodok military cleaver (one handed) deals 35 swing damage, whereas the great sword deals 42 swing damage and a normal two handed sword deals 40. That's  not that much more at all. You do also have a reach advantage, but as it is now two handed weapons are almost entirely useless in any battle server: before you even get close to the enemy to be able to use your reach/damage advantages you'll be peppered by any type of missile and die, and that's pretty much why you rarely see any competent player with a polearm or two handed weapon in battle servers. I'm not advocating for making two handed weapons more powerful or anything, this is merely an observation.

 

[lolbash]

Because the entire point of two handed weapons is increased risk for massive damage.

That dosen't explain why deflecting arrows has to be a perk in the first place.

Arrows bounce off hard armor

Im curious. WormyDog, do you want this implemented because it will help with game balance, or do you want this implemented because it looks cool?

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,376196.msg8960592.html#msg8960592

If it is because of the coolness factor, I have already made a thread about this and detailed my solution to not affect game balance while still providing immersion for the "REALISIM NAOW" side of the playerbase, but as you can see the community has decided it is a terrible idea, as it messes with player feedback, which is a valid point.

 

[Bjorn The Dead]

I don't think wormydowg's intentions is anywhere near being cool.

You dare to call that thread which consist of 3 pages "community decision." Come on! I don't think most of the people won't like that idea on that thread but calling it "community decision". *sighhhhh*

 

[Gabriel_Gonzaga]

Because the entire point of two handed weapons is increased risk for massive damage.

Based on Rainbow's suggestion, deflecting an arrow would be so rare that the value of risk would barely change at all.

Edit: To elaborate on that, I also wouldn't really say that two handed swords in Native deal massive damage as of now. A Rhodok military cleaver (one handed) deals 35 swing damage, whereas the great sword deals 42 swing damage and a normal two handed sword deals 40. That's  not that much more at all. You do also have a reach advantage, but as it is now two handed weapons are almost entirely useless in any battle server: before you even get close to the enemy to be able to use your reach/damage advantages you'll be peppered by any type of missile and die, and that's pretty much why you rarely see any competent player with a polearm or two handed weapon in battle servers. I'm not advocating for making two handed weapons more powerful or anything, this is merely an observation.

Those are base damage numbers. Power Strike skill and increased rotational speed for weapon's length make all the work done.

 

[Silen]

Those are base damage numbers. Power Strike skill and increased rotational speed for weapon's length make all the work done.

Talking multiplayer here, where the skill is the same. As for the reach advantage, you won't be able to use it if there's any competent ranged player on the enemy team, you'll die very quickly.

 

[Marko͘]

Oof, I really hope gimmicks like this won't be in the final Multiplayer part of the game.