Dead factions not dead....Really??

[Taveren]

I fail to understand how a faction with NO (i.e. ZERO, NADA, ZILCH) fiefs for over an in-game year, can still exist, have funds to hire numerous mercenary companies, muster several armies to besiege castles from opposing factions, and where every single clan leader when spoken to "is happy with my current liege blah blah blah..."

I have THREE such factions in my current game.... with no way to stop the stupidity except go ultra bad guy and decapitate them all, Highlander style.

Can this level of stupid AI programming even be explained?? When Warband had a extremely well working method of Kingdom destruction when all fiefs were taken?? I mean, it's not like the developers have to think outside of the box, or create a new design for this CLEARLY LACKING mechanism to be introduced to the game. Just look at the Warband code FFS.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

I don't think I've seen an explanation just the standard "we're always working on XYZ". It even feels worse in 1.1+ because my AI vassals seem even more docile and will defeat less of these de-powered factions and they seem to more easily re-take fiefs then in past versions. It can be speculated that TW wants more padding for game length, but it could just as easily be more oversights. Whatever it is, they need to figure what they think the flow and progression of the game is and make it work. If it's supposed to be perpetual then much more content needs to be added, if it's meant to paint the map and say GG then such nonesense need to be removed so factions are promptly destroyed when defeated. You can't just have no content but battles and also never ending battles "wack a mole" style, that's not rewarding progression at all.

 

[NPC99]

I don't think I've seen an explanation just the standard "we're always working on XYZ". It even feels worse in 1.1+ because my AI vassals seem even more docile and will defeat less of these de-powered factions and they seem to more easily re-take fiefs then in past versions. It can be speculated that TW wants more padding for game length, but it could just as easily be more oversights. Whatever it is, they need to figure what they think the flow and progression of the game is and make it work. If it's supposed to be perpetual then much more content needs to be added, if it's meant to paint the map and say GG then such nonesense need to be removed so factions are promptly destroyed when defeated. You can't just have no content but battles and also never ending battles "wack a mole" style, that's not rewarding progression at all.

Might also be a side-effect of the changes which appear to have radically reduced or eliminated AI to AI clan defections.

Clans can be eliminated by killing all adult members:

Presumably factions are only eliminated when all clans within it are eliminated.

IDK how the fiefless and adultless clan remains "rich" and presume the babies have servant nannies

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

Might also be a side-effect of the changes which appear to have radically reduced or eliminated AI to AI clan defections.

I have never played a game where AI faction would defect at reasonable rate when de-landed. At most I would see 2 clans change faction by the time the map was painted. Then you have the bugged version where you had frequent defections but it was so much that your own landed vassals would constantly leave too, making the game unplayable (as a ruler painting the map without executing everyone). I think TW needs to stop having daily % chances and have actual condition that when met cause a defection. And of course make defection to player faction possible. There's really no benefit of a faction splitting up if they just go to another AI faction and none to the players. You will still be left with a map full of vagrant clans at some point.

And of course there's no point ever making a kingdom or a vassal if you are going to execute as it is always faster and easier to just execute all lords, just as it has been all of EA. So, if TW think executing AFTER you have a huge faction is the solution.... hah hah Noobs.

 

[NPC99]

...if TW think executing AFTER you have a huge faction is the solution....

Execution shouldn't be required to make serious progress, it should merely be a player option for role-play. Rather than propping up landless clans with magic funding the game code should be pushing them to join a faction that's wealthy enough in fiefs and gold to restore their fortunes, which in the late game will often be the player faction. When they're at ground zero, bad relationships shouldn't matter as survival is more important than pride.

 

[Taveren]

What I do not understand is why the developers REMOVED this feature that was present in Warband. When a faction was destroyed, all the nobles would go and find other kingdoms to join.
Remember how they would suddenly all be in your capital asking to become a vassal as "you may have heard of my mistreatment by...".

It should be easy to program.
1. Let every faction have a determined capital where displaced lords may present for an interview
2. Kill off a faction if it has no fiefs for 30 in-game days.

This seems pretty basic to program.

So many great features from Warband discarded by Bannerlord. They really just want a medieval battle simulator, not the immersive RPG that Warband was.

 

[NPC99]

So many great features from Warband discarded by Bannerlord. They really just want a medieval battle simulator, not the immersive RPG that Warband was.

Unmodded Bannerlord is a far better game than unmodded Warband. It’s late game mechanics need tweaking as past a certain point (say all but a handful of towns controlled by the player) it degenerates into perpetual insurrections where enemy army and garrison sizes are too small/weak to provide sufficient challenge/interest in mission scenes.

 

[clock4orange]

I'm in stage of the game where kingdoms has no land at all:
- 25+ years in-game,
- declaring war means 95% of ladies and lords are immediately imprison as they stay in my towns,
- all clans has 100 relation with me, as I let them go after battles,
- no one dies, as I tweak max age to 125 years...
- stupid 'fugitive' mechanics make it even worse - can't talk to clans leaders as they are replace with other clan members to lead parties

just waiting for my character die... in 75 years time [now is in 48], maybe...

 

[Emperor1997]

- declaring war means 95% of ladies and lords are immediately imprison as they stay in my towns

This should block war declarations from other Kingdoms, no one has ever declared a war against another Kingdom, who one of their members, was a guest, if they have do it anyways, the guest was in most cases not taking prisoner, but was executed, to send a message.

 

[JunKeteer]

They could've also had clan wealth tie better with it too. Fiefless clans should drop to poor quickly (if not already), have that wealth mechanic scale to represent QoL (ie poor = old age starts to tick at 40, moderate = 45, etc...). Likewise with fertility/marriages.
So, clans are always 'dying out' dependent on their wealth status, with the wealthy ones trending to last longer/more offspring/marriages. Poor ones always struggling, with higher chance to change teams for better opportunity.
That adds more attrition, especially fiefless kingdom/clans that will trend to die more easily (battles/age), have less marriage ties/offspring, and will eventually die out or actually want to convert to another kingdom.

 

[NPC99]

Part of the late game silliness - a weak 25 strong warband besieging a castle vs four times the number of defenders and still able to build a full set of siege engines without any interference!!!!

Even worse, seems I can't defend my castle because the minor clan besieging my castle isn't at war with my faction - maybe attacking castles is just neighbourly instead of an act of war!
The bug seems to arise because I recruited another minor faction/clan the Legion of the Betrayed and then gifted them this castle. Despite them showing in the encyclopaedia etc as a clan inside my kingdom, this bit of code isn't treating them as such. ): Seems like a bug report's needed.

Unresolved - Faction Recognition Bug

Summary: I recruited the legion of the Betrayed into my faction (Sturgia) and subsequently gave them the fief Vernon Castle. This was then besieged by another independent minor clan (Eleftheroi). I am unable to attack the besiegers because the encyclopaedia claims that I'm not at war with the...

forums.taleworlds.com

 

[LDominating]

I fail to understand how a faction with NO (i.e. ZERO, NADA, ZILCH) fiefs for over an in-game year, can still exist, have funds to hire numerous mercenary companies, muster several armies to besiege castles from opposing factions, and where every single clan leader when spoken to "is happy with my current liege blah blah blah..."

I have THREE such factions in my current game.... with no way to stop the stupidity except go ultra bad guy and decapitate them all, Highlander style.

Can this level of stupid AI programming even be explained?? When Warband had a extremely well working method of Kingdom destruction when all fiefs were taken?? I mean, it's not like the developers have to think outside of the box, or create a new design for this CLEARLY LACKING mechanism to be introduced to the game. Just look at the Warband code FFS.

Someone confirmed it is intended.
They'll declare war on multiple factions and ask for high tribute.
Then they'll build their parties and try comebacks.
I do like to help these dying factions.

 

[Great love Immortal]

Someone confirmed it is intended.
They'll declare war on multiple factions and ask for high tribute.
Then they'll build their parties and try comebacks.
I do like to help these dying factions.

If this was intended by the devs then that was a really weird feature to implement. It is more detrimental than it is fun or immersive, I do not see why anyone would want that.

 

[LDominating]

If this was intended by the devs then that was a really weird feature to implement. It is more detrimental than it is fun or immersive, I do not see why anyone would want that.

Because the game would be stale if there are only 3 factions left on the map.

 

[Taveren]

Because the game would be stale if there are only 3 factions left on the map.

I don't think so.
Just like Risk or other strategy game, the goal is to RULE THEM ALL.
Then, when you are done, either
a. Restart a new campaign (which keeps the game fresh as you try a different origin, campaign strategy, spouse, faction, etc.), or
b. Move on to another game on your list.

The current state is a great method to cause frustration and irritation, causing you to:
a) abandon the game,
b) write a bad review about a poorly developed game.

 

[five bucks]

Make kingdoms with no holdings dissolve after 20 ingame days TW

this is really easily fixed and Warband did it fine over 10 years ago

 

[RubySplash]

I fail to understand how a faction with NO (i.e. ZERO, NADA, ZILCH) fiefs for over an in-game year, can still exist, have funds to hire numerous mercenary companies, muster several armies to besiege castles from opposing factions, and where every single clan leader when spoken to "is happy with my current liege blah blah blah..."

I have THREE such factions in my current game.... with no way to stop the stupidity except go ultra bad guy and decapitate them all, Highlander style.

Can this level of stupid AI programming even be explained?? When Warband had a extremely well working method of Kingdom destruction when all fiefs were taken?? I mean, it's not like the developers have to think outside of the box, or create a new design for this CLEARLY LACKING mechanism to be introduced to the game. Just look at the Warband code FFS.

Just wipe out the Lords. Don't worry about the mercenaries. There is several ways ways of winning. Depending on if you got birth and deaths enabled. If you do then these are the options

1. Wipe out lords over 38 years old. After 38 lords can't have children. E.g. they all die of old age.

2. Wipe out all the women/ keep them locked up till they are 38 or older. Can do this with the men but generally more men in the kingdoms.

3. Follow the Queens of hearts example and chop off their heads

If you got birth and deaths disabled then can only do option 3. Unless you got extra mods such as disease or starve mod. Then lords can randomly die if they run out of food or get sick.

I Don't see any issue with this current system. Having it eliminate kingdoms after a year or when it suddenly switches from winter into spring is a bad idea.

You create your own kingdom and start with 1 fief. This gets captured/ rebels and then you get eliminated if it takes a year or until the clock ticks over to spring.

You generally spend a season in jail if you get captured and put in a town/ Castle plus it takes a season to recruit enough men to re take a fief. If you get captured and shoved deep in energy territory then keep getting captured then you gonna be struggling to get another fief. Plus once you do that kingdom going to be marching armies to just come take it straight back

The never ending cycle of taking a fief to then not be eliminated because your kingdom is new

 

[Taveren]

Just wipe out the Lords. Don't worry about the mercenaries. There is several ways ways of winning. Depending on if you got birth and deaths enabled. If you do then these are the options

1. Wipe out lords over 38 years old. After 38 lords can't have children. E.g. they all die of old age.

2. Wipe out all the women/ keep them locked up till they are 38 or older. Can do this with the men but generally more men in the kingdoms.

3. Follow the Queens of hearts example and chop off their heads

I Don't see any issue with this current system. Having it eliminate kingdoms after a year or when it suddenly switches from winter into spring is a bad idea.

Not everyone wants to be the most hated ruler/person in Calradia. Even in real world history no ruler every eliminated EVERY opposition. There is far greater satisfaction in recruiting someone to your faction.

But that is not the point I am trying to make. Warband had faction elimination enabled after ALL fiefs were taken and a faction had a reasonable time period (e.g. 30 day) to recapture a fief. If successful, they get to remain on the board. If not successful, they deserve to be forgotten and their clans then go to the different factions to ask to join. Warband had a great method where you had a capital fief (sadly missing in Bannerlord), and Lords would attend to ask to join your faction when they were faction-less.

These good features have been removed by developers for no good reason.

 

[NPC99]

As far as I can see, Bannerlord is clan as opposed to faction based, requiring enemy clans to be recruited or eliminated. Even with -100 relations, it is possible to recruit clan leaders from prisoner dialogues etc. Those who refuse can be executed, letting you try again with their replacements. However, a current bug also allows you to recruit mercenary clans from prisoner dialogues, which causes problems like my inability to defend a castle in this earlier post https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/dead-factions-not-dead-really.458107/#post-9865663 So, avoid recruiting minor faction mercenaries as they won’t stay with your faction and you can’t defend any fiefs you give them.

 

[five bucks]

I Don't see any issue with this current system.

Get your vision checked then.

1: by executing everyone from that kingdom, the player loses massive amounts of relations with the entire world (even when it makes no sense) and gains negative personality traits that are basically impossible to get rid of.

2: it's unrealistic and immersion breaking that a "kingdom" with no fiefs held and no sources of income can magically generate armies to raid you basically for eternity.

3: it is extremely boring and tiresome to chase down the tiny fast-moving scraps of a kingdom you have already defeated on the battlefield so you can execute every last person. Especially when you've got multiple other wars you have to deal with, and don't have time to be chasing fugitive lords to the ends of the Earth in a game where finding people is a pain in the ass! On top of that, a single Bannerlord playthrough is already long enough and has enough tedious grind to put an MMO to shame, it doesn't need more.

4: all of the above is extra frustrating to those of us who actually played Warband and remember a time when taking all fiefs from a kingdom would make it collapse shortly afterward. What was wrong with that? Why can't we have it back?