Combat mechanics that have no counterplays.

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Yukmouth++

Sergeant
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If there is one thing that i despise, and from what i've read on the forums seems shared by others, its combat mechanisms that causes your death even though you did'nt make a mistake or missplay. There are not plenty of said mechanics, but those who are there are just obnoxious as hell.

1- Crushthrough : nobody seems to like it, and i despise it from the bottom of my heart. When ennemy player does a upper swing and you do an upperblock, you did the RIGHT thing and should be 100% rewarded from it. Crushthrough is a stupid mechanic that requires no skill to use, nullify the essence of the dueling system of the game. and is just plain frustrating. I've killed people that are better duelists than me by doing a 91 dmg crushthrough with a voulge. This mechanic needs to be permanently deleted.

2- The fact that when you do a glancing blow on an enemy, his swing is not cancelled. Completely ridiculous, when you hit an enemy, fair and square, but it turns out the multiplier decided he has too much armor for your bad empire sword, you deal 5 damage on him and his swing isnt canceled so you take a 80 damage in the face EVEN though you outplayed the opponent by landing a swing FIRST. I know there is some positioning required to prevent doing glancing blow, but we do not have pure control. More often than not we deal glancing blows with non-spear weapons and we were pretty sure it was a clean hit, but the game decided otherwise.

3- Getting couched through your shield. The fact that the horse hits your shield before his spear that is like 4 foot away from the horse makes 0 sense and there is no counter-play to that. The defender's shield was up, it should always be blocked.

4- Rocks in Siege : It is ridiculous, it is not being used like intended. People are just walking into melee range with their rocks. Sorry mate but if i attack you with a HUGE rock from 1 meter away, the worst that can happen is that i break your toes. Rocks should bounce off shields and deal less and less damage the closer you are to your opponent. Rocks were made to be thrown down the walls, not to be used in a melee 1v1 or in the stairs.


These are the "no counterplay" bad mechanics that i can think off the top of my head.
 

Younes123

Master Knight
WBWF&SNWVC
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Crush shouldn't be removed, just applied to only heavy hammers that balance it out due to having a slow swing speed and easier to dodge. Very ideal for closed quarters. But weaker in the open
 

Firunien

Grandmaster Knight
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@Yukmouth++
1. Well you can Facehug to counter it, even though it's hard because Shock classes are so fast. The weapons are too fast as well, and crushthrough not limited to hammers is a problem for duels I agree. Crushthrough definitely needs some adjustments, but generally I like the mechanic.
2. Glances are annoying but you are at fault for not hitting properly.
3. Bump couches require a very specific bump angle, therefore can be countered easily by footwork. Cav needs to be quite fast for couches so it's not hard to dodge, that's your counter.
4. Didn't play enough against it, but isn't the wind-up really long?
 

Yukmouth++

Sergeant
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@Yukmouth++
1. Well you can Facehug to counter it, even though it's hard because Shock classes are so fast. The weapons are too fast as well, and crushthrough not limited to hammers is a problem for duels I agree. Crushthrough definitely needs some adjustments, but generally I like the mechanic.
2. Glances are annoying but you are at fault for not hitting properly.
3. Bump couches require a very specific bump angle, therefore can be countered easily by footwork. Cav needs to be quite fast for couches so it's not hard to dodge, that's your counter.
4. Didn't play enough against it, but isn't the wind-up really long?
Sure mate... all those counterplay are super easy to pull off... are we playing the same game ?
 

Firunien

Grandmaster Knight
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Lol at firunien talking as if the combat is already perfect.
By far not,i partake in criticism as well to get the game to a better state, but so many of these threads are people not knowing how to deal with a situation, and instead of learning a counter or getting better they just blame a in their perspective broken mechanic.

@Yukmouth++
Have i said easy ? You said no counterplays, actually i just tried to help you find a counter, instead of just saying "me dead, game bad".
 

Yukmouth++

Sergeant
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By your reasoning, if bows were hitting for 1 dmg you'd be like "its not trash, you just need to shoot people 120 times and they die..."
 

Firunien

Grandmaster Knight
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By your reasoning, if bows were hitting for 1 dmg you'd be like "its not trash, you just need to shoot people 120 times and they die..."
actually you could shoot them 50 times in the head, which isnt too hard to be honest
 

Revverie

Knight
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actually you could shoot them 50 times in the head, which isnt too hard to be honest
I assume this is a joke? The thing is some mechanics are just very easy to pull off and very hard to counter, that's my view on it. I don't know how archery is now, since I haven't played in a long time, but I remember archers hitting you despite having your shield up or down with complete ease to the point is completely unavoidable, making it so broken that basically anyone with a basic knowledge of the game can pull off, but you have to be good to avoid, sometimes not even being good is enough. That especially made me not want to play the game.
I haven't played with crush through, but in Warband you could fight against maces with crush activated because they were slow and easily counterable, or if not easy, you at least could manage to fight against it if you figured it out, something that could be done in a 1v1, but against a voulge, and based on the videos I've seen it seemed pretty broken to me.
 

Firunien

Grandmaster Knight
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I assume this is a joke? The thing is some mechanics are just very easy to pull off and very hard to counter, that's my view on it. I don't know how archery is now, since I haven't played in a long time, but I remember archers hitting you despite having your shield up or down with complete ease to the point is completely unavoidable, making it so broken that basically anyone with a basic knowledge of the game can pull off, but you have to be good to avoid, sometimes not even being good is enough. That especially made me not want to play the game.
I haven't played with crush through, but in Warband you could fight against maces with crush activated because they were slow and easily counterable, or if not easy, you at least could manage to fight against it if you figured it out, something that could be done in a 1v1, but against a voulge, and based on the videos I've seen it seemed pretty broken to me.
Yes it was a joke.
Archery is still strong, and you can be shot quite easily on the side of your shield, this can be countered (not easy) by always keeping your shield(only the big ones) to the archer in the down block position, while doing that never walk straight to not get footshot, this is a case you described easy to pull of and hard to counter. Same goes for crush through, it is still really strong and the weapons are neither slow nor short, that should be balanced better in order to have an easier time dealing with them.
Point 2 and 3 of OP are not of such nature, glancing of your enemy is just doing a bad swing and bumpcouch is hard to pull off and relativly easy to counter.
 

WMorton

Regular
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Crush shouldn't be removed, just applied to only heavy hammers that balance it out due to having a slow swing speed and easier to dodge. Very ideal for closed quarters. But weaker in the open
My group did a clan match the other day and our opponents used legionaries to block us while menavlions consistantly crush throughed and killed us making it so that we could do nothing, not even manouver to a better postition or whether the storm until help could arrive. I really dont care what 2hander has crushthrough ability it shouldn't be there, takes skill out of the equation and just gives spammers a reason to not get good.
 

Younes123

Master Knight
WBWF&SNWVC
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My group did a clan match the other day and our opponents used legionaries to block us while menavlions consistantly crush throughed and killed us making it so that we could do nothing, not even manouver to a better postition or whether the storm until help could arrive. I really dont care what 2hander has crushthrough ability it shouldn't be there, takes skill out of the equation and just gives spammers a reason to not get good.
Like i said, it's a bad mechanic if applied to all weapons. This is where warband did it good. Hammers naturally have a disadvantage being slow. But with crush it gave it a reason to play for. Crush wasn't 100% but it did give a slight advantage
 

Zorpe

Sergeant
WB
Best answers
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1- Crushthrough : nobody seems to like it, and i despise it from the bottom of my heart. When ennemy player does a upper swing and you do an upperblock, you did the RIGHT thing and should be 100% rewarded from it. Crushthrough is a stupid mechanic that requires no skill to use, nullify the essence of the dueling system of the game. and is just plain frustrating. I've killed people that are better duelists than me by doing a 91 dmg crushthrough with a voulge. This mechanic needs to be permanently deleted.
+1 unless they add some sort of repercussion from using crushthrough, anyways seems practically impossible to counter with a clunky mechanics.
 

Aprikosenmann

Sergeant at Arms
Best answers
0
If there is one thing that i despise, and from what i've read on the forums seems shared by others, its combat mechanisms that causes your death even though you did'nt make a mistake or missplay. There are not plenty of said mechanics, but those who are there are just obnoxious as hell.

1- Crushthrough : nobody seems to like it, and i despise it from the bottom of my heart. When ennemy player does a upper swing and you do an upperblock, you did the RIGHT thing and should be 100% rewarded from it. Crushthrough is a stupid mechanic that requires no skill to use, nullify the essence of the dueling system of the game. and is just plain frustrating. I've killed people that are better duelists than me by doing a 91 dmg crushthrough with a voulge. This mechanic needs to be permanently deleted.

2- The fact that when you do a glancing blow on an enemy, his swing is not cancelled. Completely ridiculous, when you hit an enemy, fair and square, but it turns out the multiplier decided he has too much armor for your bad empire sword, you deal 5 damage on him and his swing isnt canceled so you take a 80 damage in the face EVEN though you outplayed the opponent by landing a swing FIRST. I know there is some positioning required to prevent doing glancing blow, but we do not have pure control. More often than not we deal glancing blows with non-spear weapons and we were pretty sure it was a clean hit, but the game decided otherwise.

3- Getting couched through your shield. The fact that the horse hits your shield before his spear that is like 4 foot away from the horse makes 0 sense and there is no counter-play to that. The defender's shield was up, it should always be blocked.

4- Rocks in Siege : It is ridiculous, it is not being used like intended. People are just walking into melee range with their rocks. Sorry mate but if i attack you with a HUGE rock from 1 meter away, the worst that can happen is that i break your toes. Rocks should bounce off shields and deal less and less damage the closer you are to your opponent. Rocks were made to be thrown down the walls, not to be used in a melee 1v1 or in the stairs.


These are the "no counterplay" bad mechanics that i can think off the top of my head.
1) Yes crush through has no counterplay to prevent it. There are only ways to reduce it. Facehugging and walking back at the moment of impact to reduce the relative speed. It has not enough counterplay.
2) ALERT! This is a really bad idea. Glancing in general is one of the most underrated features. Without it combat would end up in a big mess. Not taking damage from it is the best thing ever and almost everyone will agree on that.
3) Bump-Couch and Bump-Stabs are hard to execute and should be rewarded if successfull. You can counter them by movement and spears. It has enough counterplay.
4) Rocks are dodgeable however the explosive honey pots are way to strong. It has not enough counterplay.