Brigand

[flashn00b]

I'm probably the only one who posts here these days, but I feel like i need to get this out of the way:

I don't think TaleWorlds understands why the throwing axe is a popular pick for Brigands. Not because it's so good of a throwing weapon that it needs the accuracy nerf to rein in its usage. Rather, the Brigand's proper melee weapons are so laughably bad that the meta loadout is Improved Armor/Throwing Axes, but you drop the woodsplitter axe and press X with the throwing axes to have a better melee weapon than both the Sturgian Shortsword and Woodsplitter Axe.

IMO, i think these changes should be in order:
Sturgian Throwing Axe: Increase Quiver size by 2, Accuracy spread reduced 50%
It won't be accurate enough to headshot anyone, but it should still be good for a mid-ranged body or leg hit.

Woodsplitter Axe replaced with Sturgian Shortsword:
Shortsword would still be worse than throwing axe melee, but should at least be JUST enough for the Brigand to defend himself if he picked the javelins perk

Sturgian Shortsword replaced with Raider Axe:
With the Sturgian Shortsword being moved to Improved Armor/Better Shield, this should allow the Brigand to actually have a usable melee weapon as a perk weapon, though you'll have the downside of having only an 80 health shield and 10 armor.

Ash Throwing Spear supplemented with Vlandian Throwing Axes (non-captain modes):
Yep, i'm talking about those throwing axes. The ones that could only do headshot for damage numbers at the mid to high 50s before they got removed entirely. This would still make the throwing spear perk the worst option for ranged damage, but should be enough for most peasant units

 

[flashn00b]

Came back to this game after a month's worth of Chivalry 2, and I couldn't help but notice that throwing axes aren't doing that much damage to unarmored targets again. Can I get the lore explanation for why TaleWorlds insists on having the Brigand be as bad as they are? Because at least with the Imperial Recruit, their suckage can be handwaved as them being victims of a mass conscription campaign and the Empire lacks the resources to properly equip said conscripts.

 

[Snorri]

Yea, throwable weapons in multi, specialy in capitan mode are just trash and brigants are a biggest trash of them all

 

[Zarthas]

These guys make no sense at all in Captain Mode @badbuckle .
Compare them against the Wildling.
Troop Count: 18 each. The lowest in the game for Skirmishers,

Melee Weapons: All of the wildling's options are superior, and has access to all the same melee weapon categories.

Missile Weapons: Wildlings can take 10 fast firing javelins or 5 upgraded javs and throwing spear. All of their options are superior to Brigand's javelin options, but Brigand can get +50% ranged damage to mounts. This is not as good as you think it is, as you are extremely likely to miss cavalry with the Throwing Spear volley and players almost exclusively melee with them, meaning you get no benefit at all.

The Throwing Axe Issue: The game pretends that all of this is supposed to be fixed by their access to Throwing Axes. They are literally unusable. Players often complain they are too inaccurate, and that is true, but there is a trick to using them. The trajectory of axes is weird and you have to aim basically at your target's groin to knees to hit them at <5 meters. The AI does not know that.
The AI in this game WILL NOT release a shot in the effective range of throwing axes. If they do, it is by accident. This means your Brigand's AI essentially will not throw axes at any target they actually have a chance of hitting.
Throwing axes do cutting damage and are therefore mostly useful aginst unshielded, unarmored shock troops. The problem is that these troops are fast and will close for melee as soon as possible.
Throwing AI will do a bizarre little dance as they constantly alternate between readying and cancelling their shot and switching to melee as shock troops close the distance on them. This means throwing axes are not usable against the only targets they should be usable against.
Again, Captain Mode has a Shield Strength multiplier that means their only other advantage of increased damage to shields is obviated.
It is a bad perk for Captain as the game's AI is not able to use them at all.

Shields: All of the wilding's options are superior, except the durability of the improved Brigand shield. This is largely negligible as Captain has a shield strength multiplier that makes breaking shields not a significant part of the game.

Armor: LAUGHABLE. The Wildling's default armor is superior at 22 vs. even the Improved Armor choice for Brigands at 19.

Movement Speed: The Wildling is faster at 82 vs. Brigand's 81, and has a perk for even faster move. Since Brigands have no move speed perk, this makes them the slowest Skirmisher in the game, with many non Skirmisher classes being faster than them.

Compare the Brigand against any Skirmisher in the game and they are inferior. They have the lowest Troop count of any Skirmisher, they are slower than any other Skirmisher, and they have the worst Armor of any skirmisher.

All of this should mean they have access to amazing passive perks and equipment, but they have some of the worst equipment available to skirmishers. They do not excel in any category at all and they are the worst in many categories.

They must be improved to be playable.

The Brigand has no job to do. He's built like he's supposed to stay out of melee, but only has low-ammo very short range missile weapons, is too slow to actually avoid melee, and can't defend himself effectively from archers due to a generally miserable shield.

TW Pick One:

Either make him more dangerous in close combat by increasing troop count, armor, and melee weapons

OR

Make him more dangerous at range by increasing ranged weapon damage, ammo count and move speed.

OR

Bring them up to the level of the Wildling if we insist on this extremely low troop count.

Some Examples of Specific Perk Changes:
--Their Improved Armor perk needs to bring them to be superior to the Wilding's armor Default to 13 (Same as Aserai's Skirm), upgrades to 22 (Best Armor of any Skirm, but you had to spend a Perk on it SO IT SHOULD BE).
--Ransomer Perk, Slot 1 Choice 2. Instead of two Side-grade Weapon+Shield perks, give them a middling Blunt Weapon (Some kind of Studded Club) that Sturgia desperately needs. This makes Slot 1 Perks now very interesting, as you either get better Armor, blunt damage, or better cut + shield.
--Banditry Perk, Slot 2 Choice 1. Like the Combined Arms or Looted Shields, but for throwing weapons. Mix of various Javelins, Handaxes, Daggers, etc. Keeps with their Bandit/Outlaw theme, makes them interesting, but keeps them from being absolutely paralyzed by poor AI.
Also Buffs Move Speed by 5%, making them usable as Skirmishers.
--If TW does not plan to improve Throwing AI, just remove throwing axes from them entirely in captain. They are not playable.
--Give them 2 Throwing Spears on the Big Game Hunter perk in Captain. If you're going to spend a Perk to counter a class that is not really dominant in the game, it should counter harder.
--This makes Slot 2 actually interesting, as you can spec for short-range with Banditry, medium range with Marauders, or hard counter cav with Big Game Hunter.

Sturgia already has dominant infantry units, and the Brigands could become a spicy tactical choice.

 

[flashn00b]

Too much stuff for me to quote in the above post specifically, but I dunno if it's fair to compare the 110 cost Brigand against the 130 cost Wildling. I think it's also worth mentioning that the Battanian skirmisher is also one of two Medium Infantry units in the game, the other being the Khuzait Spear Infantry.

I do agree that some aspects of the Brigand are underwhelming, though I've found that having either weapon perk and the heavy javelins or throwing spear do give you a pretty strong low-cost unit. I do agree that some things do need buffing.

Throwing Axes
Most important thing that I think needs to be changed is the throwing axes. They're so inaccurate that you're actually better off pressing X to use them in melee rather than actually throwing them. I think they should have an increased multiplier on headshot damage, since a Tribal Warrior WITHOUT Improved Armor would take about 65 damage on a headshot. If TaleWorlds wants to restrict the effective range of throwing axes, I think it'd be more productive to increase the weapon's projectile drop while making it slightly more accurate than javelins. That way, you can still use it in mid-to-close range, but actually be able to land some solid bodyshots.

Also, since the Brigand doesn't have access to the Rapid Throws perk, I think the Throwing Axe quiver size should be bumped up from 3 to 5 in most modes, and 4 to 11 in Captain (11 so that you can have 10 to throw, and 1 to use in melee)

Blunt Weapon
Personally, I do think that that Brigand needs a decent blunt weapon due to Sturgia's overreliance on the Berserker to fight armored enemies. I'm not too sure what weapon would be replaced, since the Raider Axe is probably the best 1h axe in the game in terms of damage and speed, the Woodsplitter Axe is surprisingly decent for a weapon attached to the Improved Armor perk, and the Sturgian Sword has a pretty decent thrust attack. I guess the likeliest candidate would probably to have a low damage high speed cudgel and have that be the Improved Armor weapon, so as to have another mace that's comparable to the Rabble's Improved Armor weapon.

I haven't played Captain in forever due to the broken matchmaking, so I can't comment on model counts.

 

[Zarthas]

Too much stuff for me to quote in the above post specifically, but I dunno if it's fair to compare the 110 cost Brigand against the 130 cost Wildling. I think it's also worth mentioning that the Battanian skirmisher is also one of two Medium Infantry units in the game, the other being the Khuzait Spear Infantry.

I do agree that some aspects of the Brigand are underwhelming, though I've found that having either weapon perk and the heavy javelins or throwing spear do give you a pretty strong low-cost unit. I do agree that some things do need buffing.

Throwing Axes
Most important thing that I think needs to be changed is the throwing axes. They're so inaccurate that you're actually better off pressing X to use them in melee rather than actually throwing them. I think they should have an increased multiplier on headshot damage, since a Tribal Warrior WITHOUT Improved Armor would take about 65 damage on a headshot. If TaleWorlds wants to restrict the effective range of throwing axes, I think it'd be more productive to increase the weapon's projectile drop while making it slightly more accurate than javelins. That way, you can still use it in mid-to-close range, but actually be able to land some solid bodyshots.

Also, since the Brigand doesn't have access to the Rapid Throws perk, I think the Throwing Axe quiver size should be bumped up from 3 to 5 in most modes, and 4 to 11 in Captain (11 so that you can have 10 to throw, and 1 to use in melee)

Blunt Weapon
Personally, I do think that that Brigand needs a decent blunt weapon due to Sturgia's overreliance on the Berserker to fight armored enemies. I'm not too sure what weapon would be replaced, since the Raider Axe is probably the best 1h axe in the game in terms of damage and speed, the Woodsplitter Axe is surprisingly decent for a weapon attached to the Improved Armor perk, and the Sturgian Sword has a pretty decent thrust attack. I guess the likeliest candidate would probably to have a low damage high speed cudgel and have that be the Improved Armor weapon, so as to have another mace that's comparable to the Rabble's Improved Armor weapon.

I haven't played Captain in forever due to the broken matchmaking, so I can't comment on model counts.

Yep Captain mode doesn't have costs of course, it has troop counts, which you would assume would be equatable. And the 110 Cost Brigand has the same troop count as the 130 Cost Wildling, which doesn't make any sense. Wildling is hands down the best Skirmisher, Brigand is hands down the worst, and they have the same troop count.

 

[flashn00b]

Thinking back on things, I wonder if it'd be better to have a blunt weapon replace the Raider Axe (stronger mace) or have it be attached to Improved Armor (A simple baton similar to what the Rabble has with the Improved Armor perk). Cuz I think both are valid options for how blunt weapons could be added to the Brigand.