[BCM] Questions & Suggestions

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Surely that's a lot of work for one person if you're randomly selecting people for MOSS?

How would it work anyway, would everyone have to run MOSS every match and send the logs if requested?

Considering it was considered a bad idea and off putting for every player to download a separate tournament module, I can't see how installing and running a 3rd party programme is any better?

Also MOSS is a free piece of software. It's ran on donations right, but surely that's not a sustainable income for a complicated piece of software? Does it send any information to their servers that they then use for selling? Is it guaranteed to only save and record what we see in the log files saved locally? What happens if its left on by accident after closing the game, does it still record data or does it stop when no application is open?
 
MyrmidonAchilles said:
Surely that's a lot of work for one person if you're randomly selecting people for MOSS?

How would it work anyway, would everyone have to run MOSS every match and send the logs if requested?

Considering it was considered a bad idea and off putting for every player to download a separate tournament module, I can't see how installing and running a 3rd party programme is any better?

Also MOSS is a free piece of software. It's ran on donations right, but surely that's not a sustainable income for a complicated piece of software? Does it send any information to their servers that they then use for selling? Is it guaranteed to only save and record what we see in the log files saved locally? What happens if its left on by accident after closing the game, does it still record data or does it stop when no application is open?
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Interesting conspiracy theory, however, completely unfounded. If you wanted anyone to take you serious, it would have suited you to test MOSS for outgoing packages. Processes also can't record any data unless they are running, so you should have looked into masked processes before making such a claim.

The tournament admins can force their participants to use of MOSS and you can decide not to be a participant. The solution is not hard if you don't want some stranger on the internet to see your private info (or that you're cheating).
 
Genuine questions not a conspiracy theory. I'm not some PC know it all, I have read different things about the app, its an invasive (by nature like anti virus) app I guess. I have no idea what is and isn't possible to do with such software considering you obviously are connected to the Internet to use it I think they're pretty good questions. It's a programme I've never heard of, why wouldn't I be concerned? Many other programmes track users, and even some games when running have a tracking thing called red shell to monitor gameplay or some ****.

And yes for the record I probably won't participate, but not because of the MOSS thing which probably should've been stated to begin with before sign ups that potentially anyone will need to use it. And if I was cheating I think for one I wouldn't have a life to cheat in a video game, and two that I'd be better at the game.
 
MyrmidonAchilles said:
the MOSS thing which probably should've been stated to begin with before sign ups that potentially anyone will need to use it.
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0b57c2675eed029a2ac27f5effbba185.png
Everyone could have known since day one by just glancing at the rules page for 2 seconds. It wasn't even hidden deep inside the rules, it was right there at the start, bold and in CAPS, so no one could miss it.
 
MyrmidonAchilles said:
Why only MOSS and not recording from desktop launching until end match for a private video? MOSS potentially reveals private information and I'm sure the people viewing it are trustworthy but they're not obligated to keep anything personal, there is no consequence if they don't. Adding more than one way is good, especially if you're going to be randomly selecting people after sign ups because not everyone will trust the programme or the good will of strangers on the Internet.
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We are working directly in partnership with TaleWorlds, if we were to leak personal data they would never work with us again. That to us is a pretty big consequence.

In terms of security, the MOSS files will be hosted on a file hosting site chosen by the person in question. We would recommend Google Drive, so if you have any security concerns with this please take them up with Google.

For those who are worried about me and Wolflo seeing your sticky notes:
11-08-18-13-40.jpg
 
Fietta said:
The admins have my IP Address? you mean the people paid by a taleworlds?

Moss is fine if it's secure as I explained like 5 months ago, but I don't trust some random warband players.
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Almost the entirety of the moderation staff consists of unpaid volunteers. Nonetheless, we do work with TaleWorlds & the Community in an attempt to provide an environment that helps both communicate (with each other) and grow. The trust put in us cannot be derived from employment, but track record. The problem with the competitive community is then that not many figures have been put into a position of such responsibility for a significant amount of time - at least if I understand your concerns about random warband players correctly.

Still, this is not the first tournament to employ the tool - and likely not the last either. Anything that is not a LAN like Bucharest will need to utilize means as reliable as possible to ensure the credibility of its results. At least if there is an interest to establish a more serious competitive scene with potentially higher stakes. So what is the solution? What is the way forward? In my opinion you (as in the comp. community) will have to start somewhere to establish a trustworthy set of individuals who may handle this type of data. The WSC has begun that process (afaik) and the BladeCast will now contribute to it. And while privacy concerns are always valid, at least you do know that the BC has quite a bit to lose if they were to act grossly negligent or malicious. (The same goes for anyone sharing private data in such a way, really).
 
One way to reduce the workload on the people checking the MOSS files is for them to remove any non relevant screenshots and the post the others publically. The community can check the screenshots. That just leaves the checking of the other MOSS data for the trusted peopel checking.

However the MOSS file still contains data that can be misused and no-one should take that lightly.

Will the admins retain any data from the file? If so for how long?
If a problem with a file is found will the admins take Rosslington's and Wolflo's word for it or will they then see the file?

Obviously here is a tension between privacy and cheat prevention.  Having a discussion about the issues is good and means that everyone is better informed and can make their own decisions about their priorities.
 
Everything connected to internet can be hacked even your microwave, but i doubt anyone would bother to do that just to see the notes on your desktop that you can actually hide
 
Providing screenshots to the community would defeat the purpose of keeping the suspected cheaters private. In this tourney, the community would only ever know who a suspected cheater was if we confirmed them as a cheater and banned them.

The data in the files will be retained for as long as the tournament is running with an additional week added on just in case any teams want to dispute any matches. So, the MOSS files would be permanently deleted around the 9th September 2018. If evidence of a cheater was found in the files, that and only that evidence would be shown to the other tournament admins and the decision would then be made by the BCM admin team.
 
Rosslington said:
Providing screenshots to the community would defeat the purpose of keeping the suspected cheaters private. In this tourney, the community would only ever know who a suspected cheater was if we confirmed them as a cheater and banned them.

The data in the files will be retained for as long as the tournament is running with an additional week added on just in case any teams want to dispute any matches. So, the MOSS files would be permanently deleted around the 9th September 2018. If evidence of a cheater was found in the files, that and only that evidence would be shown to the other tournament admins and the decision would then be made by the BCM admin team.
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Even I dont see the problem with making screenshots of the game public. What is the benefit of keeping the names of the prople you asked to use MOSS private? Does the fact that you call those people 'suspected cheaters' mean that you have ruled out asking random players to use MOSS as a one off?

So I think you are confirming that no data from the MOSS file be retained after the tournament for any reason whatsoever?  You say the file will deleted around Sept 9th will you also confirm that any data derived from teh file will be deleted by that time?

I think you are also confirming that other admins will not see the whole file but only the part tht shows evidence of cheating, can you confirm that?

 
Aeronwen said:
Rosslington said:
Providing screenshots to the community would defeat the purpose of keeping the suspected cheaters private. In this tourney, the community would only ever know who a suspected cheater was if we confirmed them as a cheater and banned them.

The data in the files will be retained for as long as the tournament is running with an additional week added on just in case any teams want to dispute any matches. So, the MOSS files would be permanently deleted around the 9th September 2018. If evidence of a cheater was found in the files, that and only that evidence would be shown to the other tournament admins and the decision would then be made by the BCM admin team.
Click to expand...

Even I dont see the problem with making screenshots of the game public. What is the benefit of keeping the names of the prople you asked to use MOSS private? Does the fact that you call those people 'suspected cheaters' mean that you have ruled out asking random players to use MOSS as a one off?

So I think you are confirming that no data from the MOSS file be retained after the tournament for any reason whatsoever?  You say the file will deleted around Sept 9th will you also confirm that any data derived from teh file will be deleted by that time?

I think you are also confirming that other admins will not see the whole file but only the part tht shows evidence of cheating, can you confirm that?
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The decision was made by the admin team before signs ups were opened to keep the names of the suspected cheaters required to use MOSS private. This is because we do not wish to discredit any players based mearly on suspicion.

The only data kept from the MOSS files after the previously mentioned date would be evidence of cheating. This evidence should therefore not contain any personal data but in the event that it does any personal data would be censored (f.e any personal data contained in a screenshot of the cheat would be blurred).

Yes, only me and Wolflo will be seeing the complete files as there is no need for other admins to see the other data. They will only see evidence of cheating, which again, should not contain any personal data.

Hope this clears things up :smile:
 
Calamity said:
We've been generally accommodating to the comments / suggestions so far with the exception of roster cap which will remain at 10.
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I hope you're prepared for a lot of default wins due to lack of players and a huge free agent section because most of them won't be able to find a team.
 
V1ncent said:
Calamity said:
We've been generally accommodating to the comments / suggestions so far with the exception of roster cap which will remain at 10.
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I hope you're prepared for a lot of default wins due to lack of players and a huge free agent section because most of them won't be able to find a team.
Click to expand...

Default wins happen regardless of roster caps in normal tournaments....
 
V1ncent said:
Calamity said:
We've been generally accommodating to the comments / suggestions so far with the exception of roster cap which will remain at 10.
Click to expand...
I hope you're prepared for a lot of default wins due to lack of players and a huge free agent section because most of them won't be able to find a team.
Click to expand...

When picking your roster you should make sure the 10 you choose are reliable and are going to show up when you need them. That should be as much a part of the decision making process as the actual skill of the players. The large free agent section is unfortunate and it's even more unfortunate that lots of dedicated players aren't able to play for the team they usually do, but the precedent was somewhat set with Bucharest that tournaments involving TW would have roster limits. You should expect that to continue going forward into Bannerlord. There are lots of very good free agents left which could form good teams, it's just a question of whether or not they want to.
 
Serthas_TR said:
What players supposed to do for those who take lots of ping than the other EU servers? I think this tournament's servers got a very bad host...
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What servers are you having issues with? We have three hosts so you'll need to be more specific here.

Also, is anyone else having issues? I want to have this fixed before tourney start.
 
Calamity said:
Serthas_TR said:
What players supposed to do for those who take lots of ping than the other EU servers? I think this tournament's servers got a very bad host...
Click to expand...

What servers are you having issues with? We have three hosts so you'll need to be more specific here.

Also, is anyone else having issues? I want to have this fixed before tourney start.
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All BCM servers... and yes only them
 
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