SP - Scenes Battle Scenes

[StevieLee7132]

Please, Please, Please either create more (preferably option to do randomized) maps or at least release specs for maps so I can make my own. Fighting on the same small number of maps over and over and over is crushing my soul. Half the fun of the battle is using your tactical skill to very quickly size up the land and find key terrain and use it to your advantage. Also, tell me how to set entry points, or make option to start farther apart, make bigger map also. Again, playing the recon / counter recon fight is a lot of missing fun.

 

[ZydrateTheSmoothCriminal]

Extend the scenes also, it simply feels claustrophobic in large battles and limits your tactical maneuverability, which isn't fun.

 

[StevieLee7132]

I agree. I was able to create huge randomized maps for Warband with entry points at correct places (opposite sides of map) so that it took several minutes for cavalry to get across the map. That was such a blast, actually get to do recon/counter-recon, and see how clever you can be about using unique terrain.

 

[ZydrateTheSmoothCriminal]

I agree. I was able to create huge randomized maps for Warband with entry points at correct places (opposite sides of map) so that it took several minutes for cavalry to get across the map. That was such a blast, actually get to do recon/counter-recon, and see how clever you can be about using unique terrain.

MP commander in Warband maps were like that too, huge, so the players could spawn in, figure out the map and what units others had brought in. Goddamn the thought of having those huge MP Commander battles with people who actively communicate and implement tactics IN BANNERLORD is killing me. Just imagine the possibilities. The times I've used that phrase alone just shows the massive potential of the game. TW please...

 

[Bloc]

I think this one of the biggest problem I'm seeing in Bannerlord right now, compared to Warband. This makes entire battle-feel super lame.

In Warband, they had Terrain Generator which was basically creating a random terrain/battlefield based on where you are standing at that moment. So if it's a hill, you were fighting at hills. If it's grassland, you were fighting in grassland.

However, they were all randomly generated by the properties of where you are at. Currently game has very simple and horrible logic. It's working more like "If in desert, if it's sand dunes, pick this map, if not sand dunes, pick this valley map" etc And that's why you are fighting at same scenes over and over. They didn't even bother to change orientation/rotation.
This is not only very limiting people to create new tactics, but also making entire battle field very unpredictable. There were many times where I was standing on plain grassland but battle map was forest ( which I hate ) They definitely need to bring back randomized terrain generator. Although I saw some trace of this in code, I actually didn't see any generation phase happening in any code fragment, so I'm assuming that it's not even in the game right now.

 

[ZygoUgo]

I was going to post a new thread but you've pretty much summed up what I was thinking, if you chase an enemy up to a mountainside, it should start on a slope with the fleeing company at the top.
I'm really hoping they bring the terrain generation back, it gives me hope that there's traces of it.

 

[MightyMidgit]

+1

I cannot comprehend why they did away with random battlefields. Perhaps they are just not implemented yet. I am tired of fighting near a river and never finding a river on the map or fighting near the coast and suddenly I am in a ravine with mountains on both sides. After so many battles, you now how to play every field because you have played them 100 times each. Random battlefields can throw curves at you that keep things interesting and increase replay value!

 

[Terco_Viejo]

I think this one of the biggest problem I'm seeing in Bannerlord right now, compared to Warband. This makes entire battle-feel super lame.

In Warband, they had Terrain Generator which was basically creating a random terrain/battlefield based on where you are standing at that moment. So if it's a hill, you were fighting at hills. If it's grassland, you were fighting in grassland.

However, they were all randomly generated by the properties of where you are at. Currently game has very simple and horrible logic. It's working more like "If in desert, if it's sand dunes, pick this map, if not sand dunes, pick this valley map" etc And that's why you are fighting at same scenes over and over. They didn't even bother to change orientation/rotation.
This is not only very limiting people to create new tactics, but also making entire battle field very unpredictable. There were many times where I was standing on plain grassland but battle map was forest ( which I hate ) They definitely need to bring back randomized terrain generator. Although I saw some trace of this in code, I actually didn't see any generation phase happening in any code fragment, so I'm assuming that it's not even in the game right now.

+1
Very much agree, it's a pity. But, the non-inclusion of procedurally generated scenes has already been discussed:

WHAT IMPROVEMENTS HAVE BEEN MADE TO RANDOMLY GENERATED BATTLE SCENES COMPARED TO WARBAND?
“We don’t have randomly generated battle scenes in Bannerlord. With our new engine and new map editing tools, we are much more efficient at making terrains with no settlements on them. We realised that we can have enough handmade maps for battle scenes. We designated areas on the world map with biomes and tagged our battle scenes according to their features.

This helps us to have consistent quality and fun gameplay with all of our battle scenes, with hand placed spawn positions, managed distances according to party size and many other small details to spice up your gameplay.”

Dev Blog 14/06/18 - TaleWorlds Entertainment

www.taleworlds.com

I agree with you, so that "visually" you don't seem to be always in the same scene; maybe you should randomize the respawn coordinates (basically what you did in your mod - it can be done). It would be an acceptable way to randomize pre-designed scenes without falling into the annoying repetition that is already brewing in our games (imo).

 

[Bloc]

Very much agree, it's a pity. But, the non-inclusion of procedurally generated scenes has already been discussed

First time seeing this actually but it's from 2018 so it's understandable that no one remembers it since back then it was Mount&Blade Bloglord.
Unfortunately, this is something drastically decreases the quality of the game for me. And this entire statement is very vague and not consistent.
"With our new engine and new map editing tools, we are much more efficient at making terrains with no settlements on them " - Well... Where are they?
"This helps us to have consistent quality and fun gameplay with all of our battle scenes" - Huge no. In a point, yes, it keeps quality consistent. Consistently low. But its not making gameplay any fun at all. I could simply play Custom Battle if I wanted to see static maps.
"..managed distances according to party size .." - I can't express how strange this statement is. It's not rocket science to adjust the distance. It's extremely simple.

I had some hopes that they would bring this to the game in the near future but now seeing that this was like that since 2018, I have no hopes anymore. It just shows that Taleworlds is lazy beyond my imagination. Some might say "Hey Bloc, don't be harsh on them. They also putting strategic spawn points to those scenes for AI to take hills and such. Consider that as well" then I would first say "Best tactic that they do is simply waiting or shifting to some random side regardless to my army count or type(archers etc).
If this is the most strategic AI they can do, give me terrain generator please because this AI is basically a garbage" and even if they had super highly strategic AI, one can still find peaks, forest areas or rivers with simple calculations. If they are not able to find this on their own engine, then its a shame. If they are not able to add Terrain Generation, then it's also a shame because even before Warband, they had this generator. It's even older than butter meme

 

[William7667]

Please, Please, Please either create more (preferably option to do randomized) maps or at least release specs for maps so I can make my own. Fighting on the same small number of maps over and over and over is crushing my soul. Half the fun of the battle is using your tactical skill to very quickly size up the land and find key terrain and use it to your advantage. Also, tell me how to set entry points, or make option to start farther apart, make bigger map also. Again, playing the recon / counter recon fight is a lot of missing fun.

Agree

Although I like most of the maps more variation is needed

 

[Wojciech Bator]

Recently I replayed Kingdom Come and one thing that strikes me is how unrealistic and just dull Bannerlord scenes feels compared to KCD world. I know it's a bit unfair as KCD world is crafted, but my point is not to blame, but to emphasize one important thing. KCD looks convincing and immersive, because the world feels more natural, the meadows, forests, paths, landscapes. One of biggest issues in Bannerlord scenes is that they are seemingly unnatural - the borders are just random stupid hills (do some fake, nice looking forest with stream or lake for a borders, maybe some low res castle or village far away) and the scene itself is too obviously procedurally generated for a battle. Please Taleworlds, make it a bit more more lifelike, more spacey, more diverse, of course it's nice to have plains scene, but let it be a bit more variadic, with some trees here and there.

The second point is lightning (that's not scenes issue). It's average and can be adjusted - of course modders will do good things, but maybe less sepia-like style, more real-life like. You have pretty powerful scenes editor from what we've seen in blog, please do the scenes with more heart, not just as a tactics playground

 

[Lusitani 5th Empire]

One of biggest issues in Bannerlord scenes is that they are seemingly unnatural - the borders are just random stupid hills (do some fake, nice looking forest with stream or lake for a borders, maybe some low res castle or village far away)

Agreed, this is one example of poor scene design, but it can be easily be fixed if the developers are aware of it. Putting obstacles that fit the theme of the battle scene (and settlements scenes too) in two categories (both complement each other):

Natural obstacles:
Terrain -- Trees, rocks, rivers, hills, mud, lakes, caves..
Other -- Fog, fire..

Man-made obstacles:
Terrain -- Roads and bridges (the end of them), fences, walls..
Settlement -- Houses and similar structures..
Other -- Ambush on a road..

On top of this adding more diverse elements would do the trick.


Also, I don't think adding more scenes should be a priority to the developing team, just focus on quality. Once they release the Modding kits there will be plenty of scenes to choose from.

 

[Carrion]

Consistently Low quality is exsactly what it is. If it is so easy to make scenes then how come there are so few, is a very good point.

Ideal solution to me is to add a option to toggle random scenes on or off or mixed. The random scenes could also have extra settings, proportions, varriation, exclusions. The ai Comander should assess positioning, counter scout and counter skirmirsh. Without this there is no more of a medival battle simulator then kids larping with pool noodles.

 

[Ashraam]

Agreed ! I find the generated maps from warband way more fun than the pre-made ones from bannerlord...