Ban Cavalry in Siege Mode

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Kleronomus

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I am so fed up with cavalry in Siege Mode -- it is a complete farce! Cavalry was almost never used in historical sieges and it turns Siege Mode into TDM and ruins any real tactics because infantry is always getting sniped by ride-by glaives or menavs or lances (often swarming around spawn). Furthermore, cavalry often back capture G and ruin the game for everyone. There are precious few enough Siege matches with a descent amount of people on them and it is ruined by swarming cavalry. If you must have cavalry in Siege Mode then limit it to five a side or 10% or something because it is right out of hand -- and causes me, for one, to rage quit regularly (and I'm sure I'm not the only one, which just continues to reduce the player base.

I've played in several Call to Arms siege events where cavalry is banned and back capping prohibited, and it is night and day -- siege with cavalry is chaos; without is amazing (particularly with Teamspeak for extra tactical play).

I'm sure there will be many who object to this, but I would think there are many more that agree.
 
Cav was not much of an issue in Warband because of how easy to kill they were.

+1, the nature of cav in bannerlord makes it impossible to kill them because of how tanky they are. In warband it was pretty much a suicide mission with the light cav you had, in bannerlord you get the option for heavy cavalry which just makes you a moving tank.
 
Cavalry was almost never used in historical sieges
It is not my problem if the attacker side doesn't have spear units. Lancers, ONWARDS!
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Even if you have a spear or pike, you are always being assailed on all sides by cavalry -- and the battlefield gets clogged with abandoned horses!
 
The main problem in siege mode are the maps. They have designed all the maps to be cavalry friendly. There are no aisles, there are no narrow roads and almost every flag is easy reached to cavalry units. If they changed that, cavalry units will be no problem.
 
This is so true. Siege is not siege because people playing like TDM because of Cavs.
 
Its also the maps design that allows cav to reach all points on purpose.
+1
As a Warband Siege Clan Player let me put some input here:
Cavalry on Siege was also a thing on Warband either for solo behind the castle sneaky ladder action or as soon as the gates have fallen to rush the flag. However there were a few fundamentally different things.
First: what Apri said.
Second: There are no behind the castle ladders for sneaky action where you have to leave your horse behind.
Third: Several Flag System. While the several flag System has its action oriented benefits there are some drawbacks. The Enemy Spawn closes on to G with Flags taken. Attacks dont have half an hour to take castle but like 5 min to take a Flag. and this results in point four.
Four: You cant take back the Gates but need to retreat and defend G. In Warband you had the chance to take back the Gatehouse the entire time but not in Bannerlord with its forward Flag Spawning. While it is logical and entertaining and exciting to retreat and defend a easier to defend position (which is not always the case lol map design oof), you cant close the gates anymore for Cav.
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Now lets talk a little bit about map design.
Warband had a lot of fan maps, but I will leave them out.
The native maps like the sandcastle or the castle in the mountains had several cav stopps along the way. One the gatehause falls you can get in with the horse but you wont get far. There is either a HUGE stair along the way or another barrier for Cav. There where some native maps, especially the oldest, where Cav could go right in after the gatehause fall. However the Gatehause was heavenly garded and it wasnt a brakable wood door but iron you had to open and close atop. Undestroyable. Take back the gatehause and close it. Cav is stranded.
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Now Warband Custom Server had a Classpicklimit.
Which was great because Inf is the bread and butter of mount and blade. A Cav roaming the spawn in Warband, like what happens in Bannerlord, wasnt possible in this extand, because you will just get yourself killed pretty fast. In Bannerlord you can either Cav swarm the attacks Spawn and wipe them out while defendkatapults destroy attackers siege weapons. And you can swarm G with defend or attack Cav to either defend or attack it, because it was more effektive then Inf. Warband had something like a 50% Inf, 35% Archer, 25% Cav limit. As an advocat for Inf only TDM i would ofc support this. But the fundamental problem is another.
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Now to take a little history lesson. Bannerlord isnt actually that far off.
You have almost no Cav as attacker at Start and when the Gate falls, Cav swarms the City (or castle yard). While the Defenders go out with Cav Charges to Defend, while they still have that advantage on open field. The difference is what happens between the castle yard and G the palace. While you can go with your horse from the yard to the throwm room (like in Warband) you can go all the way to G with your horse. And where the Problem startet with what apri said it also ends with it, because the map design favors cav. Some on skrimish as well. Positions where Archers are save for Cav makes Inf more valuable to push that Archer. While is sure gives the ARcher class a huge buff, it will need a debuff somewhere like less HP (like Warband) but that is a different discussion for another day.
 
We are going to increase the cost of Cavalry in Siege and TDM.
This is a bandaid on a mortal wound kind of metapher. Atm there is a meta to win any game (if enough people follow): Use only cheap spawns until the way to G is open (doesnt matter if you are defender or attacker). As soon as the way to G is open everyone use that saved money to spam heavy Cav. This wins every game. Depending on how much the cost increases you still get to spam, since i kinda doubt you will increase it by like 50 or more gold. An Increase of 50 gold would make it still a valid strategy but not op spamable.
What this will solve however is the early game cav Problem. Defender wont be able to spam Cav in the first minutes to bring attackers dead in their tracks. For this Problem this is a nice solution. But I guess no matter what you do there will always be a meta strategy to win every game kinda.
 
This is a bandaid on a mortal wound kind of metapher. Atm there is a meta to win any game (if enough people follow): Use only cheap spawns until the way to G is open (doesnt matter if you are defender or attacker). As soon as the way to G is open everyone use that saved money to spam heavy Cav. This wins every game. Depending on how much the cost increases you still get to spam, since i kinda doubt you will increase it by like 50 or more gold. An Increase of 50 gold would make it still a valid strategy but not op spamable.
What this will solve however is the early game cav Problem. Defender wont be able to spam Cav in the first minutes to bring attackers dead in their tracks. For this Problem this is a nice solution. But I guess no matter what you do there will always be a meta strategy to win every game kinda.
I stopped playing siege because of the cav. They were just too annoying. But I would prefer to see the maps fixed rather than just increase the price.
Problem is; we need to find a solution that can work across any map - because when people start making their own maps it would suck for this issue to just rear its head again. Sure map changes might help - but it doesn't do anything long term.

Increasing Cav cost will not only reduce the amount of cavalry but also downgrade the majority to light cavalry; heavy cavalry will be rare in comparison to how they are now. In a long-term view this is a better fix then just changing the map.

Also it means TW are open to balancing modes independently - which is very interesting.
 
I agree with the increase price but not at the same time.

Increasing the price of cavalry isn't going to completely make this problem go away. Because by the time they do get cav, they will have have the chance to make all their money back in a few minutes because of how overpowered it is.

In the meantime, if you disable cavalry as a whole you will practically put the choices for factions from 7 to 5. I guess we will see how well this price change affects it.
 
I'm kinda split on this one as well. While I think Cav should definitely stay in the game-mode I also think that Cav is just too strong right now.
When we (KoH, Hess, RdC, BRE, PV) are doing our weekly siege event on Sunday we do notice that Cav spam is pretty op. Just recently we started the round as defenders with about 30-40 Cav and just completely rushed the attackers and killed them every time they respawned (they were also about 40 organized guys and couldn't do anything about it)

I think as soon as Inf's a bit stronger / Cav gets nerfed they shouldn't be a big issue anymore. A coordinated Spearwall should be able to take on a Cavalry charge tbh
 
We are going to increase the cost of Cavalry in Siege and TDM.
This Will not fix the problem, There is nothing easier than playing cavalry. It is just that overpowered. Even if it cost 300g people Will more often than not regain the gold by killing tons of people and staying Alive for 10 minutes straight (because the horses are too tanky)
 
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