An open letter to the competitive community

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DeathBG

Veteran
AVRC I like the changes you guys decided make to the inf but nerfing certain maces is not a good idea at all.Like khuzait,battania and vlandian maces are good as they are.Vlandian maces are short so a slower longer weapon can outspam it.Battanian and khuzait maces are at 88 speed already.I remember them being 85 speed and it was terrible.That's not needed.
 

MIKA

Sergeant at Arms
Why only class restriction when we can play more than 6v6. The game allows it already
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Koso

Sergeant
Lol, If they want it sooo much I mean play without restrictions TW can open a new offical tournament which they supported and they can do it without any restrictions. I won't get **** my whole 8 week with full of cancer. This is literally like "Throw out a sprat to catch a mackerel" as a player we want real good game. Not unbalanced or some OP weapons or OP cavs and ect. However, we wont **** our whole 8 week either. Otherwise, we can try like 1-2 weeks tournament without restrictions.
Factions were imbalanced, they are much better now.
By the way the sheets are not shows the truth about factions balance. Like If some good players or clan can play like nearly worst faction in this game sturgia or khuzait they can easily win aganist not really good clan with best faction like Battania or Vlandia. If both sides as an equal skill base playing khuzait vs vlandia we all know that whos gonna win.
 

Fietta

buıʇʇǝs uoıʇɔǝɹıp ʞɔɐʇʇɐ
Section Moderator
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Let's keep the discussion on-topic to the OP, don't discuss MP stat changes/bugs here, there's numerous threads you can do that, this is about the next BEAST tournament's format.
 

MP_Erik

Sergeant
M&BWBWF&SNW
Data is not valid if you play 3 archer and 3 cav per team because Infantry is entirely out of the picture. We should enforce strict rules on class limitations and it will benefit us in two ways...
If Infantry shows up in no composition then we will indeed not have any information gain on how it is balanced compared to the other classes. Enforcing strict class limits on the other hand will also not help because then we have no clue how different compositions perform. The kills of a unit might be misleading as we would expect a support unit to be important but not make many kills.
What we really need is to see a high variance in unit compositions to see how any composition correlates to it's teams winrate.
 

EbdanianAdmiral

Knight at Arms
If Infantry shows up in no composition then we will indeed not have any information gain on how it is balanced compared to the other classes. Enforcing strict class limits on the other hand will also not help because then we have no clue how different compositions perform. The kills of a unit might be misleading as we would expect a support unit to be important but not make many kills.
What we really need is to see a high variance in unit compositions to see how any composition correlates to it's teams winrate.
Exactly. If infantry is not being played, it indicates that it needs adjustments. The percentage a class is being picked is just important to the big picture as all of the metadata and kill rates etc. A tournament without restrictions is the best way to acquire the data the devs are looking for.
 

Einarcf

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
The best why to see if a player/certain class is useful, is not to look at that class/players stats. But rather if it helps the team's winrate go up.
 

MP_Erik

Sergeant
M&BWBWF&SNW
Exactly. If infantry is not being played, it indicates that it needs adjustments. The percentage a class is being picked is just important to the big picture as all of the metadata and kill rates etc. A tournament without restrictions is the best way to acquire the data the devs are looking for.
Actually that's not what I meant. Technically speaking a class being picked is not an indicator of how good it is but of how good it is perceived to be. For the latter we don't need games but we can just look at the forum.

The best why to see if a player/certain class is useful, is not to look at that class/players stats. But rather if it helps the team's winrate go up.
That's more like what I meant.
If we were only interested in information gain for balancing purposes and not in a fun tournament then the best way to achieve that would be enforce randomized compositions for every team in every round and see how the presence or lack of certain classes influences the winrate.

I'm fully aware that many players with a competitive mindset would hardly agree to such a proposition. Still I have to stress that it would be fair after a certain number of rounds as the average of getting good/bad compositions would normalize over time.
 
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DainMorgot

Sergeant
It is pretty clear they are now putting some effort in making the game better and communicating with us more.
Supporting rather than demonizing them seems the better option pal.
But maybe you could boycot the forum, i'm sure that way you would be helping the cause✋

Your opinion is clear but there is no reason for the competitive community to not play with the restrictions that are set by them on some shady deal about badges. This is not about balance, they have all the information and testing needed already done by us to improve the game yet the change is minimal so far. This is just to save face.
 

TheBard ✂

Salt Knight
Sergeant Knight at Arms
AVRC I like the changes you guys decided make to the inf but nerfing certain maces is not a good idea at all.Like khuzait,battania and vlandian maces are good as they are.Vlandian maces are short so a slower longer weapon can outspam it.Battanian and khuzait maces are at 88 speed already.I remember them being 85 speed and it was terrible.That's not needed.
I second that. Maybe try reducing the damage by a couple points and lets try how that plays out. If the heavy maces get too slow, nobody will pick them in the end and we have a dead perk.
 

Ling*

Knight
I don't participate in Skirmish games or events however we're having a similar discussion in the Captains League discord as we prepare to move into season 2. Last season during our playoffs 1.5 was released and it completely destroyed the competitive vibe by introducing a 6 v 6 shock troop exclusive meta which for obvious reasons is incredibly boring to watch. At the time one of my moderators proposed we delay the finals until a hotfix was released to fix Archer Ai and reduce Crushthrough, however this update never came until 4 months later, had I listened to him we would have only just finished the event in December. I can understand the skepticism many people have regarding this, however there is no gaurantee that your class restriction will even be viable after a few updates get introduced, the risk of having an imbalanced meta still exist with these restrictions if the units stats, loadouts or perks get changed at all during your event. The reason we proposed a class restriction in our captain mode event is because we have absolutely nothing preventing players from all picking 6 of the same unit, every single round. I wanted to avoid the disaster that was our league finals by ensuring that 6 unit spams would not be possible with a certain class restriction I have proposed. We are currently voting on it, but it doesn't appear that it's going to pass based on the preliminary voting that has taken place so far. Fortunately it appears that AVRC and the MP team have realized the mistakes of past updates and are more than willing to work with community members to deliver faster balancing changes based on direct feedback received from events such as Beast. As I have absolutely no place in voting about your particular class restriction, I might suggest that perhaps it might be worthwhile to eliminate class restrictions so that TW can get an accurate look at what is and isn't OP so that they can adjust stats and loadouts to better reflect how people would like Skirmish to be played.
 

aD_WalKeR

Recruit
I would back doing a different tournament for the devs with no limits - maybe a like a day/week tournament. But in my opinion no limits will ruin what beast is - the tournament that keeps the matches balanced and this game alive. We played in an other tournmanet with no limits and so did a few other players here and I thought it was a s*** show. Doing this for the next 7-8 weeks is a bit much maybe?
 

wermoncz

Regular
I would rather wonder how this will help make the game better overall. Well, maybe if it works out, we'll get a slightly better balance of factions and units, but in the final, who will be interested in the competitive scene in a few months? If a battle comes out, then no one will play skirmish, because it just doesn't have as competitive potential as a battle.
If we got some better combat instead, because the current one is *****. And it would also like servers, because without them you do a balance for a few people, because most prefer to stay on the warband.
 
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