An idea for the future of United_Roleplay server

Your opinion on the idea

  • Good idea!

    Votes: 14 58.3%
  • Bad idea!

    Votes: 10 41.7%

  • Total voters
    24

Users who are viewing this thread

Prade

Sergeant Knight
Hello everyone, i have made this post to ask your opinion about an idea for the future of the United servers.

First of all the current situation : There are 2 servers, HCRP one and Roleplay one.

I don’t play a lot on HCRP so I will not really talk about it here.

But what I’m seing right now on united_roleplay is kind of a kindergarden. Some players are now experts regarding the rules and their weaknesses
And use it to get free refunds. I’am sure that some players do not mine anymore and live and fight only on refunds they can get. Those are the smart whining kind.
There is also the lame whining kind who whines every time something goes wrong to them.
“Let’s travel back alone with a cart full or Iron/gold.. Oh no outlaws are taking my cart! ADMIN ADMIIIINN THEY RANDOMED ME, REFUND MEEEEEE”.

All these players discouraged me of admining the usual way (by logging in with my true name and admin only). So now I’m mainly admining undercover to see what is really happening and prevent this kind of abuse. But i’m tired of this situation.
Enforcing rules would mean a lot of rules describing every cases which would be clearly too hard to remember all. Or hiring many more admins which would automatically lead to admin’s abuse (there are really few players we can trust to be admins) or disaster like what happened with Rapace.


So here’s come my thought.


To me there are 2 ways playing the PW mod. First one by fully rping it (meaning creating a character and sticking to it no matter what), with hard rules, admin to enforce them and make sure everyone is rping.
And the second one is the wargame style. I mean using all the great features of the mod to improve the basic game of native, enjoy the fights between factions. Make war, be organized and survive to a place with no rules.

So here’s my idea, why not changing the united_roleplay server to a wargame style for players who enjoy the second way and keep the HCRP server as roleplay for players who enjoy the first way?  With this both kind of players will be able to enjoy PW the way they like. And it would also end the hypocrisy going on right now.

Of course players will not really be in a random place with no rules at all. A smart design of the map can protect most of the players. We could also create a safe place protected by admins with rules like no kill in that place etc…. . There are several ideas to organize that, and you can propose yours

Now that you’ve read all that, answer the poll up there and in both case explain your opinion on the matter please.

 

hirovard

Grandmaster Knight
WBNWM&B
Ou mean a no fighting area like the armoury on ociana on old RCC server? Was a good idea but hard to enforce, but with the current admin tools it may be a good idea
 

Vissy

Baron
WBNW
I don't like this idea one bit. I find it pretty rewarding to RP on the United server, and turning it into a wargame free-for-all castlemania would simply ruin it for me and many people like me. If you'd have an admin-protected place of no killing... huh, that would just ruin the concept of Town Watch and destroy their usefulness. I say keep it as it is, for I see little reason to change it all so drastically. United's already quite like what Prade suggested.
 
I also don't like the fact that armories are filled up at the round start, leaving engineers pretty much useless, besides from repairing, not to mention the lack of cooperation. The technical related details should be map dependent, because each one has a conceptual orientation judging from the tiers of weapons available in the armory to the actual stack and price. I'm very disappointed that server owners "feed the players with the spoon", by putting everything at their disposal.
 

Illusive Man

Sergeant at Arms
M&BNW
Hmm, I haven't been a serf or peasant for ages, I just steal all the money I need from money chests and get the rest from fights. :razz:
 

Dark_Hamlet

Master Knight
Prade said:
Some players are now experts regarding the rules and their weaknesses. And use it to get free refunds.

In 90% of the cases the "victims" doesn't even care about what happens to the rule-breaker, the victims just want their large quantity of money lost that was earned by unkown ways.

Prade said:
Enforcing rules would mean a lot of rules describing every cases which would be clearly too hard to remember all.

That or at least some principles that we can use and interpret.

Prade said:
So here’s come my thought.


To me there are 2 ways playing the PW mod. First one by fully rping it (meaning creating a character and sticking to it no matter what), with hard rules, admin to enforce them and make sure everyone is rping.
And the second one is the wargame style. I mean using all the great features of the mod to improve the basic game of native, enjoy the fights between factions. Make war, be organized and survive to a place with no rules.

So here’s my idea, why not changing the united_roleplay server to a wargame style for players who enjoy the second way and keep the HCRP server as roleplay for players who enjoy the first way?  With this both kind of players will be able to enjoy PW the way they like. And it would also end the hypocrisy going on right now.

Of course players will not really be in a random place with no rules at all. A smart design of the map can protect most of the players. We could also create a safe place protected by admins with rules like no kill in that place etc…. . There are several ideas to organize that, and you can propose yours

Now that you’ve read all that, answer the poll up there and in both case explain your opinion on the matter please.

It's heavily scene dependant, but what if we let factions (TW included) create their own rules inside their borders and with some few global rules that doesn't open space to doubts when enforced (no foul language, english in global chat, no IC information in OOC chat, no killing in the commoner spawn room, etc.).
 

flans

Squire
Better idea would be to simply say no refunds anymore,
every time the server is reset for whatever reason.

make it so we spawn with like 12-14k and no refunds.

less stress for admins and less cash around the game which leads to less plate wearing commoners.

also i'd rather not go  to an american server for RP i lag a lot on the HCRP server, Would probably be the same for most other euro players.

maybe make the tavern a safe zone. . . if that's really needed.
 

Aldric

Grandmaster Knight
WB
No time to pill up arguments, but remember.

Currently on all united map
Safe spawn with teleport with commoner pole to leave faction when you don't want to go war.
Safe spawn with multiple teleport for outlaw and commoners ( separated rooms)
Safe spawn are protected by admin. No fight is allowed here.

Lastest idea. Add a low money "garden/tavern" for slow farming in the commoner spawn zone in order to let people farm in peace if needed.
Again, with so much map protections, people should be able to survive at start, farm a bit and then get to the game, in a competitive way.
 

Troubles

I think the excessive randoming / nagging the server is suffering from is due to (based on your posts, I haven't played PW for ages...) the fact that money and weapons are so easy to secure. People start with a huge sum of money (enough to train as a sergeant for instance), and then they either kill someone and loot his armor or steal from a castle chest (which is usually full of money because, again, money is quite easy to get).

I'd say that you should limit the refunds (as it has been said earlier above), have zero starting-weapons in armories as default (again, suggested above), and spawn with a little amount of money (unlike what has been said above). Money that can barely provide you with a serf / craftsman training. This shouldn't prove to be game-breaking; money is so easy to get anyway.

From my old experience (before I started playing on Eu), my favorite moments were right after the server reset. We'd start with ~200 denars, team up, and build our kingdoms (which usually took an hour or two). Randoming was not an issue (although there were no rules) because the randomers did not participate in building up the kingdom, which led to them having no money and poor weapons in comparison to our slightly better armors and short swords (kinda like the bandits in single player, it really added to the gamepaly immersion).
 

Boarlady

Grandmaster Knight
NW
Aldric back in your cage. The mere mention of some castle wars related idea and you come leaping out with undue enthusiasm.  :razz:

But now seriously, I'm tired of fighting this same suggestion repeatedly. It isn't new or anything and I should probably just import my opinion from the several other threads such as this but I won't. Far too lazy. So new plan because change is good.

If you can prove this is what the populace wants, then by all means go ahead.

No aldric that does not mean post false poll results with exaggerated totals.

No that does not mean just a forum poll and a 1 time in game poll.

I mean seriously going the whole 9 yards and seeing if this is what the players desire.

Majority rules, I'll support it whatever it may be.

My only issues this time lie with:

1. Reasoning: Aha! People are manipulating the rules right before my eyes, let us give me them no rules! That will show them bastards!

I don't think that requires further explanation.

2. People get pissed off and quit the mod when they come to play and cannot do a damn thing without getting killed repeatedly for no reason other than johnny wants to Lol and have a high K/D

Making it within the rules for the above to happen does not change the effect.


Hilda is done.....
 

Aldric

Grandmaster Knight
WB
Aldric Hilda  back in your cage. The mere mention of some castle wars Rules evolution based on what people wants idea and you come leaping out with undue enthusiasm pessimism .  :razz:

If you got time, i will let you do this poll in game.
1. Did you think that rules are currently good ?
 

Prade

Sergeant Knight
To answer everyone :

Das Knecht said:
I don't like this idea one bit. I find it pretty rewarding to RP on the United server, and turning it into a wargame free-for-all castlemania would simply ruin it for me and many people like me. If you'd have an admin-protected place of no killing... huh, that would just ruin the concept of Town Watch and destroy their usefulness. I say keep it as it is, for I see little reason to change it all so drastically. United's already quite like what Prade suggested.

Changing the united_roleplay to united_wargame would not mean erasing all RP of it. It's just a clarification. Even in a wargame you can still RP. It just would be clear that we do not enforce it (as we currently don't so i find the "united_roleplay" name innapropriate). Even in a land with no rules you can RP. It is just a more dangerous world. And if you want clear RP then use the HCRP.

Also the TW concept could stay, i did not say that the Town would be protected by Admins. So TW could still have a Town to watch. Admins could just protect the spawn lands, to make sure everyone is ready to face the hard world of war.


The Bowman said:
I also don't like the fact that armories are filled up at the round start, leaving engineers pretty much useless, besides from repairing, not to mention the lack of cooperation. The technical related details should be map dependent, because each one has a conceptual orientation judging from the tiers of weapons available in the armory to the actual stack and price. I'm very disappointed that server owners "feed the players with the spoon", by putting everything at their disposal.

I agree with you on this as with Trouble. Players are too well served and refunds should be really lowered or totally deleted. same with weapons stock at the beginning of the map.

Dark_Hamlet said:
It's heavily scene dependant, but what if we let factions (TW included) create their own rules inside their borders and with some few global rules that doesn't open space to doubts when enforced (no foul language, english in global chat, no IC information in OOC chat, no killing in the commoner spawn room, etc.).

I also agree here, let the factions decides the rules of their own kingdom. Let the kings be real kings that rule their lands. Same with the few global rules that are still needed (not sure for the "no IC information in OOC chat")


Boarlady said:
My only issues this time lie with:

1. Reasoning: Aha! People are manipulating the rules right before my eyes, let us give me them no rules! That will show them bastards!

I don't think that requires further explanation.

2. People get pissed off and quit the mod when they come to play and cannot do a damn thing without getting killed repeatedly for no reason other than johnny wants to Lol and have a high K/D

Making it within the rules for the above to happen does not change the effect.


Hilda is done.....

1. That's not my thought. I offer to remove the rules of united_roleplay to let the 2 kind of players find their way of playing. You speak like if this was the only server of PW and so that i suggest to remove all rules from all PW. But no i suggest to remove all rules for one server (with still some global rules like i said before) and to keep HCRP wirth rules to enforce RP. This way all the player will find exactly what they are looking for.

2. That is what the safe spawn with admin protection would prevent. Admin could also do the teaching job that they usually can't do, by showing new players how to survive in the world.


To clarify a bit the concept this is what i'm suggesting :

HCRP server stay the way it is with rules and enforcing RP.

United_Roleplay becomes United_Wargame. With the removal of all the rules except some global ones like (no foul language, english in global chat, no IC information in OOC chat, no killing in the commoner spawn room, etc.... To be defined)

A safe spawn for every players like Aldric suggested :

Aldric said:
Lastest idea. Add a low money "garden/tavern" for slow farming in the commoner spawn zone in order to let people farm in peace if needed.
Again, with so much map protections, people should be able to survive at start, farm a bit and then get to the game, in a competitive way.

Let the kings/lord rule their lands as they wish to.

this is the roots of the idea, but i'm here to suggest it and hear your opinion and your idea on how to improve that.
 

Dark_Hamlet

Master Knight
Aldric said:
Lastest idea. Add a low money "garden/tavern" for slow farming in the commoner spawn zone in order to let people farm in peace if needed.
Again, with so much map protections, people should be able to survive at start, farm a bit and then get to the game, in a competitive way.

A form of "prepare before you go" exists in the community map, all I need is a server to test it with some few people.
 

Vissy

Baron
WBNW
Another problem I see here is roughly categorizing the players to 2 vastly different groups. There's bound to be the middle category, too, and that's what United has always been for - changing it to wargames would remove the only place this middle category could play on.
 

Prade

Sergeant Knight
Das Knecht said:
Another problem I see here is roughly categorizing the players to 2 vastly different groups. There's bound to be the middle category, too, and that's what United has always been for - changing it to wargames would remove the only place this middle category could play on.

And what does this middle category want? If you mean RP in a wargame style, i already answer it. Even if it change to wargame you could still RP if you want, you'll just need to be more careful of your world. Because you will not be protected by mighty admins who would refund you at the first scratch.
 

Dark_Hamlet

Master Knight
Das Knecht said:
Another problem I see here is roughly categorizing the players to 2 vastly different groups. There's bound to be the middle category, too, and that's what United has always been for - changing it to wargames would remove the only place this middle category could play on.

I think that I can be included in that middle category. I dislike long conversations about imaginary deeds, but I also dislike the total war style of some players, but letting the factions create their own IC rules won't affect your gameplay. You can expect that most people (we can't save some of them) will have the good sense to not kill themselves over and over again and the groups of players will try to create some order. Try playing when there isn't any administrator online and you'll understand. The difference will be the disappearance of refunds.
 

Splintert

Count
M&BWB
Castle wars would be great except

1: ping. NA players can't properly play there.
2: it would open up HCRP for even more BS rules that make absolutely no sense.
 

Prade

Sergeant Knight
Splintert said:
Castle wars would be great except

1: ping. NA players can't properly play there.
2: it would open up HCRP for even more BS rules that make absolutely no sense.

1. I don't really know much about ping but it seems impossible so satisfy both EU and NA on it, if the Server is on NA, then EU will complaint about the ping and same for the other case. But if ping makes it harder it doesn't make it impossible. One time on HCRP (when it was NA) i killed 3 ennemies with a high ping.

2: I'm not sure there's a real need of adding rules to HCRP. Maybe just one : You must RP!. But for now i would keep the rules the way they are now.
 

Domhnall mac Raghnaill

Knight at Arms
NW
The Bowman said:
I'm very disappointed that server owners "feed the players with the spoon", by putting everything at their disposal.

Server owners don't make maps, map makers do. We could tell the map makers exactly what to put in their maps, but asides from the safe spawn points we've never really done that. If we started doing that, I think that it would hurt the map making community.
 

Azrayel

Sergeant Knight at Arms
Domhnall mac Raghnaill said:
The Bowman said:
I'm very disappointed that server owners "feed the players with the spoon", by putting everything at their disposal.

Server owners don't make maps, map makers do. We could tell the map makers exactly what to put in their maps, but asides from the safe spawn points we've never really done that. If we started doing that, I think that it would hurt the map making community.

Second'ed.

This being said, I think most map makers would change the starting stockpiles if asked to politely. I tend to stagger them, with like 25 in the normal weapons, 15 in the mid-range version there-of, and 5 for the very best weapon of each class- which encourages engineering without making the beginning of each round an utter drag.

But on a personal note... I don't think I've trained as the serf class since before the winter holiday, let alone worked for money. Money chests and money bags see you living well in a fraction of the time (the latter being harder to come by and trickier with variable outcomes, the former being pretty secure depending on the map and if you actually own the chest).

 
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