All the tier lists are wrong, and here's why

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When was the last time you fought a battle in the campaign where it was all tier 5/6 troops vs tier 5/6 troops? Likely never, and for me personally I've never experienced this in 350+ hours of Bannerlord. So why is it all the tier lists compare max rank troops vs max rank troops? Maybe at some point mid/late game you can end up with a majority arrangement of high rank troops, but the AI will always have a diverse arrangement of r1/2/3/4/... troops. The reason this is relevant when considering where a faction's strengths lay is because troops of different cultures gain armour/weapon upgrades inconsistently and disproportionately.

A good example of this are Sturgian archers. While their equipment might be inferior to other cultures at max rank, from hunter -> archer they gain northern chainmail armour whereas their counterpart archers from other factions are still rocking gambisons or leather with very poor protection around hands/feet in particular. This is true of Sturgia in general, their troops at max rank have weaker armour than almost all their counterparts (especially berserkers with their nakedness and shock troopers with their cloth scarfs) but their low-mid rank troops are very well protected.

I like to bring up Sturgia in the above example because by many people's appraisal they are the weakest faction, usually the first to be eliminated in a campaign. This is important because I see changes to their troop tree being the most common suggestion when it shouldn't be and developer focus/public attention should be on other issues. Sturgian troops are not the problem. The real issues for the northern kingdom are the low prosperity of all their towns, the fact that their entire territory is slowed by the snow (including villagers and caravans) and especially the fact that there is never enough blood for Raganvad.
 
Because you mention Sturgia, brace yourself for that discussion to take over the thread rather than your main point :roll:

The variations in progression you mention are interesting to note, and important for the player experience. For the impact it has between AI combatants, it is actually irrelevant since autocalc doesn't care about equipment.
 
Just my own opinion, but I think you might be mixing two different "Sturgia" issues that both have gotten a lot of forum ink. First Issue: Sturgia troop tree. Individual unit strengths/weaknesses on the non-auto-calc battlefield. Second Issue: AI Sturgia having a rough time vs the other AI factions and getting steamrolled on the campaign map. I do think that most (or at least many) observant players make a distinction between the two.
 
They should add a troop leveling difficulty option to have better parity with AI lords. Atm it is easy to have a full army of max tier troops while the AI dont making it easy for the player.
This will also give more importance to max tier troops and you have to take care of them. But they need to fix autoresolve first
 
from hunter -> archer they gain northern chainmail armour whereas their counterpart archers from other factions are still rocking gambisons or leather with very poor protection
Hah hah armor!
Best archers are the ones that are staying still and shooting, worst are the ones trickling towards the enemy and getting slaughtered.
 
Hah hah armor!
Best archers are the ones that are staying still and shooting, worst are the ones trickling towards the enemy and getting slaughtered.
In a duel of archers the winner is not usually the one with best bow or more arrows, but the one with more armor. (unless one seriously out-ranges the other)
 
Sturgia and Aserai are the victims of poor map design. The single biggest issue for the factions. Every faction is more or less condensed and then you get Aserai and Sturgia who are long lines with only tiny access points on the east and west parts of the map.
 
sturgias in even worse shape because one of its cities is out on a peninsula and the other on the opposite side of their region is built into the side of a mountain making it take even longer for help to arrive if its attacked, not to mention a 50% reduction in snow penalty is still a penalty, meaning they generally just move slower on top of already moving slow because of the lack of cavalry, the opposite for kuzait.

aserai shares their other problem of their center of power being as far from other factions as possible, meaning long treks for the majority of their manpower to be on the front.
 
. This is true of Sturgia in general, their troops at max rank have weaker armour than almost all their counterparts (especially berserkers with their nakedness and shock troopers with their cloth scarfs) but their low-mid rank troops are very well protected.
Sturgian Infantry (supposedly their "strength") don't get metal armour until the end of the troop tree. Sturgia doesn't just suffer in autocalc battles, they get wiped in real battles too. They've got no good infantry until top tier, (with berserkers being a small exception. Varyags are okay but they're very slow,hard to find in numbers and the tree ends in cavalry) crap ranged units to support them and cavalry that's so hard to field (find enough "noble" recruits, level them up to top tier) it basically never shows up in AI armies and isn't anything special in the event that it does.
 
sturgias in even worse shape because one of its cities is out on a peninsula and the other on the opposite side of their region is built into the side of a mountain making it take even longer for help to arrive if its attacked, not to mention a 50% reduction in snow penalty is still a penalty, meaning they generally just move slower on top of already moving slow because of the lack of cavalry, the opposite for kuzait.

aserai shares their other problem of their center of power being as far from other factions as possible, meaning long treks for the majority of their manpower to be on the front.
Wouldn't it be amazing if we could cross water?
 
So many players are just obsessed in general with max rank units, both in how strong they and in getting them as quickly as possible (hence complaints about xp nerfs to looters), that the value of mid ranked units is completely lost.
 
So many players are just obsessed in general with max rank units, both in how strong they and in getting them as quickly as possible

Because there's currently no meaningful downside to going with 100% Tier 6 units in your army. If you manage all the training, there should definitely be a payoff - but the only downside (higher wages) is meaningless in most cases. I'm not saying this has to change by the way.
 
Because there's currently no meaningful downside to going with 100% Tier 6 units in your army. If you manage all the training, there should definitely be a payoff - but the only downside (higher wages) is meaningless in most cases. I'm not saying this has to change by the way.

There is also the downside of the extra investment of time and attention it takes to get and maintain a near max tier army.
 
There is also the downside of the extra investment of time and attention it takes to get and maintain a near max tier army.

Neither of those is much of a downside in having one, just in getting one. Like I said though, if you manage the training and recruiting, having an upside is fine - but right now going for it is a complete no-brainer, there is absolutely no reason not to.
 
Neither of those is much of a downside in having one, just in getting one. Like I said though, if you manage the training and recruiting, having an upside is fine - but right now going for it is a complete no-brainer, there is absolutely no reason not to.
This is true...why not create a top tier army if you can.

There are some exceptions like when I play as empire I keep a number of infantry troops at lvl 3 where they are skirmishers. There are a couple of other troops types that are actually better armed and armoured at a lower tier or the gain from promotion in equipment and skills is not worth the investment...but on the whole yeah, promote to top tier...why not.
 
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