A Death Option Proposal

[ryanwigginton]

I know the developers have already suggested this will happen.  This is how it should happen in my own opinion.  I've tried to keep it as logical and simple as possible.

You're knocked down in battle and lose all your hitpoints, you're killed.  The game is saved as a dead character along with all the stats etc.  This one's easy.

You're knocked down in battle with hitpoints remaining, you're unconscious...
A: Your army wins:
i) They carry you from battle to revive you.

B: The enemy wins:
i) The enemy is not taking prisoners and you are executed
ii) The enemy ARE taking prisoners (this option could have different branches however, escape should NOT be default.  If you have some renown it could be likely someone pays a ransom for your release)
iii) You awake on the battlefield sometime later amongst dead bodies, either with kit or with no kit/items missing.

Janus, please move this to the King's Court as you see fit.  I hope they can include this soon (as an option as I realise not everyone wants to die).  In most games, infinite lives is called cheating.

EDIT: I forgot to add, when the death option is on, it should also apply (in a simplified format) to your heroes.  And only when it's on should your difficulty read 100%.

 

[LntStm]

Not bad at all, it's little bit frustrating when you are always only knocked out. Same to other own heroes and foes. Even how hard you hit him he only knocks out. Last time i knocked down the vaegir king. First i couched his horse with about 200 dmg. after that i hitted him too with couched attack about  100 dmg. and he still was knocked out.

Thou the game should make things different with dying and getting prisoners. It would make the battles different when you know you could die, so if i would be outnumbered i will make run for it so i may not die.

I agree with most pleased, this should me in native version too. ( atleast optional if nothing more )

 

[Iberon]

Actually from what is available in the code it should be possible to add being able to properly die in mod. I'll have to check now though to see if it works.

EDIT: You can 'kill' the player, just use the function change_screen_quit and you're booted back to the main menu.

Now for something directly on topic: I don't like the fact that at the moment you are essentially invincible throughout the game. No matter what you lose you can always claw your way back up to the top. Therefore getting killed doesn't really mean as much as it should do.

 

[Dain Ironfoot]

As long as it's an option (I personally don't want to have to start from scratch just because a stray arrow comes out of nowhere.... if you're that desperate to die, delete your game when you loose a battle) it might satisfy all those who want a super challenging game.

 

[ryanwigginton]

if you're that desperate to die, delete your game when you loose a battle

..and that's exactly what I have to do at the moment.  But it feels like I'm self terminating rather than being terminated.  Also, I can't use the heroes at the moment as they are also immortal.  I heard a while back the devs are going to add this death option.  This is just a suggestion of how it should maybe work.

 

[Adept]

Dying should be much rarer.

At the moment, the hitpoints represent the wounds you can take and still fight on with your full potential. You don't slow down, nor does your strength grow less.

I'd like to see the code changed so that dying happens when you are knocked far enough into negative hitpoints. It could well be so that stabbing damage is the deadliest, then cutting and then blunt, but it should still be possible to kill by smashing somebody over the head with a hammer. At the moment one can safely "capture" people by running them repeatedly over with a warhorse and whacking them over the head with a mace!!

The required number of damage could be some percentage of your overall maximum damage, or a fixed number.

HP loss = death
--------------------------
120%  piercing damage
130%  cutting damage
140%  blunt damage

Or if that is too complex, then something like -10, -20, -30

 

[GaGrin]

Generally agree with the above - but I'd tie the death chance into the current game mechanics a little more.  Surgery and first aid skills should have an impact on your chance of survival just as much as your men (and the enemy too).

Obviously if you're perosnally out then your own skills don't apply - but I beleive this exists ingame currently with the "wounded" tag anyway.

 

[Whoopin]

Excellent suggestion, this game is in dire need of a hardcore death option for many reasons. It will only enhance the experience since its optional.

One of the goals with hardcore games is to see how far you can survive and what you can accomplish without making mistakes. Will give another layer of satisfaction when you whoop your enemies and provide a more real fear of losing.

I actually dived into the Mod section to look for details so I could create it for us, maybe Ill make it happen.

 

[ryanwigginton]

Thank you! You summed it up Whoopin. At the moment there's no challenge for me.  Basically you can't lose... you can lose a battle but you will always get back up and just keep getting stronger until you get bored.

 

[ryanwigginton]

There could even be a scoring system when death option is enabled for boasting rights.  For now the person with the better character is just the one who has put the most hours in, they could've died a zillion times getting.  But with death option scoring we could see who the real skilful players were.

 

[Oubliette]

Just wanted to add that it's already been modded in for a few mods in the past, although I think the most notable is Maw's murder mod which proves a nice hardcore experience for those who desire it. Hasn't been ported over yet though.

 

[Wihzzahrd]

I agree.

 

[ryanwigginton]

Just wanted to add that it's already been modded in for a few mods in the past, although I think the most notable is Maw's murder mod

Which other mods?  I'd like to work out how they do this.  Don't have any modding experience but maybe it's an easy job.  Does anyone know where to start looking so I can have a go?  I'm guessing including the tree diagram in the first post of this thread will be a little more tricky but maybe death when hitpoints reach 0 isn't.

 

[LntStm]

Hope the dying comes to native too it's rather boring to hack down other partyleaders when they cannot die either.

 

[Hebrew_Hero]

If and when they do wounds, they should make it like how youd die.

Like if a stray arrow went through your throat. You should have a low chance of survival.

As opposed to a body shot.

Or when a guy hits you in the neck clean with a sword. Youre just dead. Not knocked out.

 

[ryanwigginton]

I agree, a wounding system could be good but I fear this will be complex and could take them a long time to integrate (if they do). For now, adding a death option for characters/heroes would be relatively easy, I'm sure. I'd be content... for a week or so at least! 

 

[Astarsis]

<<In most games, infinite lives is called cheating.>>

I see the issue. In most game you reload your game 

In mount&Blade you can't. And in some case you are in a situation you cannot escape.

Waste 100 hours of gamelay ? I think not. Especially with the "mountain bug" that send you backtracking in directions you didn't choose.

I know the developers have already suggested this will happen.  This is how it should happen in my own opinion.  I've tried to keep it as logical and simple as possible.

You're knocked down in battle and lose all your hitpoints, you're killed.  The game is saved as a dead character along with all the stats etc.  This one's easy.

You're knocked down in battle with hitpoints remaining, you're unconscious...
A: Your army wins:
i) They carry you from battle to revive you.

B: The enemy wins:
i) The enemy is not taking prisoners and you are executed
ii) The enemy ARE taking prisoners (this option could have different branches however, escape should NOT be default.  If you have some renown it could be likely someone pays a ransom for your release)
iii) You awake on the battlefield sometime later amongst dead bodies, either with kit or with no kit/items missing.

Janus, please move this to the King's Court as you see fit.  I hope they can include this soon (as an option as I realise not everyone wants to die).  In most games, infinite lives is called cheating.

EDIT: I forgot to add, when the death option is on, it should also apply (in a simplified format) to your heroes.  And only when it's on should your difficulty read 100%.

Same answer as before

Not dying is ok

Peoples rarely died from battle in those days, they died from infected wound

The concept is simple really:

As soon as you injured someone in the leg (very easy to do, much easier than the chest...)
why would you keep hiting ? He can't move, he's useless

If he got a ranged weapon, either take it away or injure his arms

3 gains:
-his comrades won't hate you for killing him
-his comrade will try to save him/care for him
-you can ransom prisonners after the battle, or exchange them for your own

At the end of the day, it's who won the battle, not who slaughtered everyone

In the worst case, send them to row your galley, your king will be pleased


----------------

Added :

on top of that it was penalty of death for a soldier to kill a nobleman, even an enemy

You had to address them as "sir" and excise yourself while clubering them down 

Then came the ransome time...

Sure death is possible, if you face your worst enemy and he got a blood vengeance with you. Otherwise i don't think so. But accident happen sometime. Worth implementing ? Not really.

If your worst enemy get you, he wouldn't want you dead. He would want you to suffer deaply. Kill your familly before your eyes before toturing you or something.... Those were harsh times when it came to your worst ennemy (I assume a very dishonoranle persohn here) was a really bad guy...

But if your worst enemy is the honorable kind and you are the weasel... then it's a public execution. for noblemen they cut your head in a very dignified way.

Even for well known criminal they would rather capture them and set an example.

For the rest, it was the galleys, not much beter than slavery

-----------------------

Actually, I think the death sentence (execution) would be a fair punishment for "evil player"

It's your choice. You play tht way (evil) you face the consequences (execution if caught)

For the good player, I don't think it should apply. There will always be someone to save you. Like in the good movies 

 

[ryanwigginton]

Waste 100 hours of gamelay ? I think not.

Come on, do you really see hours of gameplay as an investment? You're not wasting anything with death. You may have put 100 hours gameplay in and only have another 20 or so left because the game is old and tired for you. You've been there, seen that, done it etc.  I delete character upon capture to simulate death. Now I may have played 100 hours also, except for me the game has hundreds of hours left because there will always be a challenge for me to get that little bit further, or one level higher.

[quote author=Astarsis]
Peoples rarely died from battle in those days, they died from infected wound
[/quote]

Hmmm, I'm not sure about this. Even if the majority died from infected wounds, still the same. Just a different end game screen.

[quote author=Astarsis]
on top of that it was penalty of death for a soldier to kill a nobleman, even an enemy
[/quote]

How many times have you started as a nobleman? Perhaps the young son of one. You're by no means a King, Prince or great Lord. And I'm pretty sure the kind of enemy I fight wouldn't think twice about ramming his spear into my throat!

 

[stratusfear]

Peoples rarely died from battle in those days, they died from infected wound........

on top of that it was penalty of death for a soldier to kill a nobleman, even an enemy

Again where are your sources? I find it hard to believe that a soldier would be punished for killing an ENEMY lord in battle. Find an example of this happening and I may believe you.

People rarely died in battle? Are you joking? What did you think they were doing tickling each other? In fact in many cases the victors would roam the battlefield stabbing all bodies to make sure they were dead. Do some research, you will find that dying in battle was fairly common.

EDIT: I believe that a death option should be turned on/off as someone else suggested. I would probably play with it on to add some danger and realism. Besides if you die you can always load your last saved game if you wish, thats how a lot of other games operate.

 

[Tulon]

How about "jumping into the body" of another party member (if you have any) once your own character gets killed? This would make gameplay more difficult and include the risk of character loss without the possibility of loosing everything just because of a stray arrow, as someone said.