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Seriously? I am the only player who is tired of chasing down last 5 cavalry units and/or the Lord leading the army when ALL other troops are running for the hills? Or is it that this is just such a known issue that nobody felt the need to comment?

Can't find any "Make me awesome" or MV's Testing. (I was curious to see what it did)

Adding in a "Royal Sandbox" starting option (start as King of a faction or similar shortcut to some of the early grind) ala Viking Conquest would be most welcomed.

I fully understand that PoP is intended to be harder and for experienced M&B players, etc, etc.  However, many of us have successfully completed the early grind many, many, many, many, (shall I go on?), times in a number of mods including previous versions of PoP.  It is not a matter of can we overcome the challenge; it becomes a lengthy repetition to get to "the good stuff".

Love the mod, would love it much more with this OPTION for those who chose it.

Sieges have always been - by far - one of the least fun things about M&B. 

The modded scenes used in Floris Expanded seemed at least passable in that at least 2 entry points at least got the chaos over more quickly and cut down on the incredible troop loss associated with the 1 ramp meatgrinder/death-fall.

Thanks for the reply, a good read.

I can definitely follow your thought patterns and I look forward to seeing how the mod turns out.  Fun, challenging battles is definitely a good thing.

Just food for thought, the Scandinavian  warriors who went Viking (verb) and thus earned the name Vikings were circa the dark ages (600-ish to 1000-ish A.D. (don't quote me on exact dates) and thus, were several hundred years before the Middle Ages in which 1257 A.D. was well into.  Just like the evolution of the Roman legions of Imperial times through time and to counter new exotic troops and tactics, the Vikings would evolve by 1257.  Feel free to "Medieval" them up as there IS no history of how they fought against troops and tactics that wouldn't exist for several hundred years after their reign of terror in the British Isles.

IMO, the Nord troop tree of Expanded Floris 2.54 works well.  You could use that as a model and flavor while reducing the number of variations if that is your style.  Either some cavalry and some archers (just not as good as other cultures who specialize more in those areas), or the near universal throwing weapons for almost all troops and a spear line to counter cavalry have worked well in other mods.

Again IMO, it is the tactical diversity and simply fun to watch factor of a good number of troop variations that make the battles fun (as done VERY well in Floris Expanded).  Upgrading troops provides some of what is lacking in the Mount & Blade series - which is tangible BENEFITS from fighting all those battles and a COMPELLING REASON to want to capture castles and towns.  If ever a modder could combine the town/castle holding benefits of the Total War series (more and better troops, buildings with benefits required to keep conquest going) with the kick ass battle system of M&B, the game would quadruple in popularity.

My .02, keep the change.

First, your recruitment systems sounds quite intriguing, can't wait to try it out.  Thanks for the efforts.

As a suggestion for the irregular armies, if possible within the scripting system, you could make it such that as the number of irregulars grow, others will be less likely to join (less share of loot) with renown providing a positive effect to offset this somewhat (to a point).  The renown loss system over time is a good idea to counter mid/endgame easy mode with irregular hoards.

Good luck.

As I understand it, any changes to troop trees necesarily break save game compatibility.  Therefore, the upcoming next "troop tree expansion" patch will require new games?

Any rough thoughts on when we should expect to start expeecting the new patch? 

Mod pre-patch version works fine, but whenever I apply the 4.51 patch (unzip then copy and replace files to main Phantasy folder), my game crashes soon after trying to start new game.

I'd appreciate help if anyone has an idea.

The battle AI seems odd in large faction fights.  Infantry troops act like they're skirmishing sometimes (no order to skirmish and most are other lords' troops anyway) or perhaps they just won't break a formation to attack the archers who are 10 feet away and feathering them with arrows.

Is this known and/or by design?

What is the difference between "cinematic" and regular versions? (just graphics?)  Also,  don't suppose savegames from regular will work with a cinematic re-install?

Oh, and most importantly... thank you, the mod looks good.  Some nice new features nobody has done before.

So is update .15 ready and we're just waiting on a proper place to upload it to be found?

So the patch .15 notes in the "History of new changes" thread is a preview or am I missing where the download is?  Sounds neat btw.

diessa said:

12oz, I'll try to find the responses in this thread, but iirc Windyplains has said that a number of Floris' features, including its troops, don't fit the direction that he is taking the mod. Currently, Dawg of War is working on new troops for the mod. Using Native's troops has been recognized as temporary and unfortunate.

This mod has some features picked specifically from Floris. What features, exactly, are you looking for out of it? You mentioned the combat values, so that seems like a possible area of discussion to me. If you had to triage, what areas of combat would need to be updated the most?

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply, I understand better now.

In my opinion, the feel of combat and troop diversity/utility is near perfect in Floris (I've played at least 20 other mods over the years).

Totally understand wanting a new direction of troops for new mod and I could certainly see enjoying new choices.  What I will be looking for (of course, others may see things otherwise) is a VERY similar flow and feel to combat as has been achieved with Floris. 

What I mean by this is that combat feels powerful and deadly whereas other mods suffer from pitfalls such as repetitive beating on armor before any results are achieved (such as Prophesy of Pendor) or typically unimaginative and dumb AI (always charge straight ahead or always wait for player to attack as in Native; best AI is Prophesy of Pendor VICKI, but Floris is pretty decent as well).  In Floris, when a line of archers opens up, you get RESULTS.  When a Nord or Rhodok infantry group engages, things DIE.  You get the idea.  Tactics matter because troops and combat are deadly and quick.

Anyway, hope that helps.  To me, combat is one of the most important components to a great game of M&B, because without it being interesting, all the Kingdom management and expansion suffers from the boredom of fighting to achieve it.

Windyplains said:

are there project about a future implmentation of this mod ( or features) in next release of floris..maybe 2.6??

Click to expand...

Any work on future Floris versions is on indefinite hold.

Click to expand...

I believe the question should, in fact, be: Could you add most or all of Floris 2.5 into Silverstag?

As an integral member of the - apparently now discontinued - Floris mod, would it be do-able to add many of the great features of Floris - all things combat related (troop trees, weapon and armor values, etc), seige maps (new scenes plus multiple ladders), and others - as drop-in components to your fantastic kingdom management featured Silverstag?

I noticed the followers seem to have gotten distracted and failed to answer your question regarding troop improvements a few pages back, but I think many (if not almost all) of the Floris Mod players in these forums will agree that vanilla troops and combat values are simply impossible to return to once we've enjoyed the Floris combat perfection.  In short, I'd love to play and test Silverstag, but I simply can't enjoy it without upgraded combat.

My .02 (keep the change).

Some very nice features being added - and like the new name.

I see from post above ( and I agree with Kinsume, vanilla combat is just too dull after playing Floris Mod Pack) that you'll be added more troop types.  I'd like to vote that you add the Expanded Troop tree from Floris Mod if at all possible. 

Also, if you can use the weapon/armor values of Floris to maintain the excellent combat and pacing, your fantastic political/kingdom features are sure to make this one of the most popular mods for all of Warband.

Good luck, and thanks for your efforts.

Ahh.  I presumed that since it was in this forum and you were one of the developers of Floris that it was build on top of Floris.  I absolutely love Floris and simply wanted the additions of your extra improvements, companion roles to make our lives easier, etc on top of the exact Floris mod that is awesome.

Again, my vote at least.

Is there any reason you stripped much of Floris Mod's combat enhancements out of the Workshop?  It would be nice to have Workshop enhancements on top of, instead of in place of the excellent Floris tweaks (where possible).

My vote, at least.

Good to see the workshop back in business! Some nice new mechanics and ideas in there.

As a suggestion: I'd like to see village/castle/town improvements used as motivation to take/keep them more than just a bit of money - to break the rinse/repeat feel of native Warband.  Sort of a RTS dimension in that you need (for example) an armorer built in order to recruit heavy infantry or a horse breeder for good cavalry.  A number of different upgrades with different flavors would work here.

Hopefully NPC lords can be made to take advantage of this as well (I believe Sword of Damocles had a similar system back in the original M&B days) such that they too will develop better troops and centers with upgrades will be worth more to capture.

Anything that breaks the same-old-same-old [get same troops, level them, take castle/town then rinse and repeat with no real change to gameplay] would be most welcomed for an otherwise great game (and excellent mod/workshop).