Recent content by Hani

Me and the scripter have come to a written agreement with a list of provisions put into it, and things have been smoothed over. This one has been forum pm'd and e-mailed. Thank you for your time. We will be coming over to 1.2 indeed.

Greetings Everyone
After much discussion, the admin team has decided to re-instate Sjaelen as a consultant after a rigorous conversation about the roles of the admin team and the consultants had been made, in which the duties and limits were more clearly explained.

We'll be sad, but that's the way it will have to be. Threatening to go as I've said before means that another team will take that teams potential playoff berth. Instead of making veiled threats, if that's the way that team feels Bubs. They should be classy and just leave should the decision be made to keep it. Class is a virtue.

I think they are talking about the mother and the father thing.

I was referencing My Big Fat Greek Wedding .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIm1dYTv-mQ

Loved that movie .

Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YelXdFhQxRQ

Ever better ^^

Yes add or remove players through the FA and Draft system. As for the explicit, explicit, explicit rule. No, but it was thought by Arys that people would understand in the way it was termed. The answer is not to remove the rule warpath as you suggest, but rather to reword to the rules to more explicitly say it. If you want that can be done, I would be happy to oblige.

Kelquethas and Troubador were added to TMW after the team submission deadline. Thus it's invalid. They can now only join the FA or Draft. Thus making them mercs if they are in FA. And allowing them to be drafted by any team if they are in the Draft. Just the way it works Vitus. 

In short my move is to follow the rules....

You lose. Checkmate.

Right I had to see my dad off, so I was out this morning but I can now post.

The way the tournament was originally envisioned was that we would give teams a certain period of time between the tournament start date and team submission deadline to allow them to make a team with no exceptions, except of course the roster cap. That meant anything would go, and we gave in the case of this tournament a months grace period for teams to make any team that they wished. After that the tournament would start a week after the team submission deadline, and the rosters would be "locked" until then with the exception of the draft that would be placed a day before the tournaments start. After that the Free Agency portion would begin. Players who have no team or who are left over from the draft would be placed or announced that they were free. They would be rated by a panel and then be placed on the block so to speak so that teams could pick them up. I've now noted, and will speak to the team, about allowing that if multiple teams bid for the same person a bidding war can go on with no cap. That would make Free Agency more interesting. Everything was clear and concise.

Then the whole roster cap issue cap issue came about.

The whole issue as voiced was that there were clans that had more than 16 players, and they wanted to play with their clan mates because they were close and what not. We could have stuck to our guns, because others and I wanted to foster an E-Sports tournaments in the vein of CS:GO and Smite and Dota and LoL. To create the setting stone for Bannerlord so that when Bannerlord came out the pieces would be set in place. However, we understand that there needed to be a transition of sorts. So I came up with the roster exception form for -clans-. Because these teams advocated for the right of people like Beowulf who was in the clan for a very long period of time, but who was inactive to be on their roster etcetera etcetera. There were other arguments in the similar vein but all ended with "I don't want to eclude people of my clan." At the same time however, I didn't want to alienate teams that couldn't use this argument. They would doth protest "If they can, why can't I!" So in my post concerning the roster exception form I made it clear that this was for clans, and that there could be no mercenaries in the roster because it defeated the purpose of why you teams wanted it, and gave the teams affected an unfair advantage. They would also of course be barred from using FA and the Draft because it would neuter that as well. If people want to see my post in question it is in the WPL thread.

So you can imagine my annoyance, and I admit that I may have been peeved as well, when I saw this issue come up.

Clockwise admitted to me that while he had read my post on the roster exception form he hadn't really read it for 2 weeks or so when I spoke to him. The people of DoF, like DoF, had posed questions concerning the roster exception post so I know they had read it as well. I also admit to having had uneasiness about people exploiting the roster excpetion form, and I now feel in a sense betrayed because when I posted this it was because I was told the teams affected wanted to play with the members they had and not cut people. Now I am seeing mercs pop up, and people using the exception form for this.

In conclusion.

I'll have to look at the team substitution and removal page to see who fell afoul/infracted and i'll be posting an announcement concerning what changes will be affected. The affected players will be given the choice of entering the draft or waiting till FA to announce their entry. If they announce FA, then they can be picked up by the team they were originally picked up by easily as long as they are below the 16 player roster cap and don't have the roster exception form. For those teams with the roster exception form one of the stipulations was that they were barred from the FA and Draft Pool.

Closing thoughts:

I am disappointed that this was re-made into an issue, and I hope this ends this discussion. It's not going to change so it's not worth trying currently. With the tournament starting in 3 days this should have been a non-issue to begin with. As for TSC, pizza. TSC has been entered as one clan for the past 2-3 tournaments in a row, they have their own joint ts, and their members hang out together and do normal scrims together. They are in essence one clan, and I see them as such as do others. A better example would be TSR which asked for an exception as is their right to my verdict regarding the new team Silence is Golden. I made that exception because it would be better to have GK half participate than not participate whatsoever, and he was level with me. On the issue of Fiery I made no verdict, however, I said I would be inclined to accept the removal of Beowulf to add him, but it would cost me a headache as people will (Inevitably) complain. OGL has asked me to allow him to add 5 more people to his roster making it a total of 18. He say's it is important because due to his team being full of EU's it is needed to field a full team consistently late at night. He say's this is the last time, and as he is being -extremely- nice to the North American captains who insist on scrimming at NA normal times ( I assume), I am not above granting this exception. I'll speak to Arys, and the rest hopefully as well, but I see no issues with it.

Edit: X I actually wonder whether you think before you speak. It doesn't seem like you do.

Tournament start date is on the 29th. The draft is the day before that.

Everything will get done, don't worry guys.

Yes.

"-All- that I am asking is that if you wish to discuss it further that you steam me, or go on TS with me and that we can speak on it there. That way matters on the thread can turn in other directions."

So yeah you are. Just would want it to be over steam or TS.

Edit: Should also state that I am going out with family now, as it's only two days I have left with them so I need to be with them. But I should be back soon.

X my steam is hani or hanichacar. You can find me relatively easily on Arys friendslist. I am in Dubai for the next 2 days or less I suppose, but until then you should find me at US morning to US evening as I am a night owl so....

Feel free to message or wish to talk to me at any time.

Erminas it will only be for teams that fill out the exception form to get a 24 man roster cap instead of 16

Sorry about the wait for my response to all this. I admit it is a bit daunting to have to respond to all these questions and concerns. It always quite a bit of time to formulate a response, and so I admit I fobbed it off a bit. Once again apologies for doing so, as all these arguments and posts would not have had needed to be made if I had been more timely, and thus I wasted some peoples times.

Roster Cap:

As this seems to have garnered the most attention, and argument, I will deal with it first. As  I told Darin the day before yesterday, as well as Nevino. The Roster exception form was actually going to be lenient, as the idea was that the admin team would control things as it is easier to ensure no exploits are had, and a variety of other factors that I will not go into because frankly the system won't be used any longer and thus it isn't worth speaking about. After talking to Darin, TSC_Rallix, Arys (Who was speaking on behalf of TMW) and Nevino. There will be a compromise, but it means work for the clan leaders and co-leaders as well as a certain criteria being met from the clan/team. What will follow is generalities or a basic outline until I am able to make the thread.

The roster cap will remain at 16 unless your clan/team meets a certain criteria in which case you may file an exception form to have the cap upped to 24.

The Criteria is as follows:

-Be an actual clan which has more than 16 players, but does not have enough players to actively field two teams. Note that I have said -actively- meaning that both teams would be sufficiently active.
    -Some examples of this are as follows GK, Wappaw, TSR, TSC, and DoF. The only EU equivalent would be IG and Castellum, but I may be wrong as I am not 100 percent familiar with the scene there anymore. KoA, HB, and wK, as well as I suppose tK would not count as neither of those clans would have more than 16 players in the clan so the reasoning would be illogical.
-Every single member of the roster must be of the clan. No mercs. At all.
- You would in the exception form list your 16 man roster, and separately the 8 man extra in the exception form.
- No member of the roster exception part. AKA the 8 players listed. Can miss more than 2 games in a row. AKA if they miss 3 games in a row. Not only will they be forcibly removed from the roster, but the whole exception part of the roster will be removed. All 8 players.
    -Do not try to cheat the system by putting your inactive players on the 16 man roster. We'll know/figure it out, and you'll be punished by having the 8 man part of the roster removed. AKA your active players. Thus screwing yourself.
    -If they are going to be absent for 3 games then remove them from the roster. You cannot add someone else in their place. But when they are "Activve" again, you may re-add them as long as it's before the roster movement cap.

You would also have to follow the conditions that the team. Or rather I, would put in place (This is going to be a lot of work, and since this was my compromise I suppose It would be unfair to another admin to fob it off to them). Some of these would be as follows although there may be others when the exception form is made..

1. The classification of NA or EU would be decided by the person accepting/declining the application.
2. In the case of a team with roughly the same amount of NA or EU or enough to field a full team for each easily. I may say that a fielded team must have a percentage of the players of the other continent on the field during matches. I would be thinking specifically of TMW and DoF. But as they already do so. Varangian, Kohath, Erminas, Blacktide, Rayden, and Sotamursu come to mind especially. That should not be a problem. However in the case of these two clans I may give an exception. A solution would be just to have both teams classified as North American, even though DoF is technically classified as an international clan. Thus EU teams would face them in NYC which would not disadvantage them as this was where I originally envisioned they would face.

There may be more when I am writing the thread down for the exception form, but that is roughly it. The way the exception form would work is when the sub-board is made (Which is made when enough teams have signed up). I will make a thread with a format for teams to use, and then lock it. Teams would then make a thread using the format, and fill it out. I would then respond to it with the decision. They may file a single appeal within three days if they have a part they object to. If the appeal is rejected the team must accept the verdict. After this I would quote the exception response, and post a reply to the thread that I locked with the exception form. I would then delete the exception thread the clan made. This is to ensure things are neat and tidy.

This is a different system than I envisioned when speaking to Darin and Nevino, and to you two I'm sorry  that its changed. But I -DO- feel that you two will hopefully be okay with it considering that the roster cap is now raised for you two, and that the system is better for everyone. Arys told me that he wanted a 24 man roster on behalf of TMW. To Rallix. We already talked about this system, and i'm glad TSC is alright with it. I'm glad that TSC will be submitting a team to the WPL.

With all that said. The people who were proponents of a 16 man, hard, roster cap. You've been complete gentleman, and very patient. Your support through this was appreciated.

With all that said I would like people to completely cease talking about the roster cap issue now. It should be completely resolved. If people post wishing for more of roster cap, or asking for an unlimited roster cap I will most probably revert it back to what it was originally which was a 16 man roster cap. And without an exception form. The teams that were proponents of this have been appeased, and when a person compromises so as to appease a certain subsection, to ask for more is the very height of rudeness as the team did not need to do this at all. The person who initially implemented the roster cap idea, asked me to ease it to 24 because his team strained themselves in asking him to get it changed. TSR, or Nevino has told me could done with 16. Rallix himself In our conversation yesterday was unaware of what Disco had said and was trying to make a team for the competition. Darin when i spoke to him, as well as when he posted said that DoF would submit a 16 man roster and was okay with it at the end of the day and would participate. Nevino and Darin, I know this is not exactly what I told you and how we compromised. However, I hope that at the end of the day you feel this is a better solution and are alright with it. To you all it was your reasonableness, that allowed this to happen. I would hope that no one hear would further post on this matter, and ruin it for you all. Now this is not to mean that I am a dictator, and wish to stifle discussion, but I feel that this issue has been talked to death and that there are other things worthier of discussion in the ruleset. -All- that I am asking is that if you wish to discuss it further that you steam me, or go on TS with me and that we can speak on it there. That way matters on the thread can turn in other directions. Thank you for reading all that. I hope it pleased ,if not everyone, most people.

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@Leroux I beleive Volpel/Trance said he liked BO5/FT 3. As he was discussing what he liked about it at the bottom of his post.

@Gelden POM will be turned to 1000 gold, and Medium on the 4th of July I beleive. This is to allow North Americans to practice. As team submisison deadline is on the 16th, and the tournament officially starts the 21st that gives teams plenty of times to practice. Alden/POM have been fantastic about helping the competitive scene, and was very easy to talk to about all this. If people could say thank you to him, or just be grateful for doing this I would be grateful. Great guy.

To all those saying this is an EU tournament due to its format. Not NA. What is the NA format? We have changed our settings so many times I don't think we have such a thing. My vision and dream is to have a uniform setting across the entire scene of Warband. That's all.

If i've missed anyone I apologize. Just quote the question or concern, and i'll respond to it.

Edit: I completely forgot a point. Obviously if you have a roster over 16 you will be completely unable to use FA, Draft, or Player Trading. Sometimes some good pickups are made during the season of a tournament, as I've seen personally. So you'll have to make the decision.

A lot of responses to this thread. I've been keeping an eye on it all, but I've wanted to take a step back for a bit to gather my thoughts, etcetera, etcetera. I'll edit my post here to answer everyone/make a new one, and make a hopefully, final once and for all post on the roster....

Well it seems I've come back to a lot of questions, and concerns.


Roster Caps:

Regarding roster caps. The roster cap will remain as is for a few very simple reasons. I will speak one last time about the reasoning for this, and lay out every point. Hopefully it is sufficient.

1) The Server Location setting is while not perfect. At least as balanced as it can be given all the circumstances at play. People can trust in it. People can trust in the fairness of the fact that the tournament administration put as much thought as possible into this, and then made a decision. Now since we've established the tournament establishes a team is EU or NA by a simple majority of where its players are coming from.... That means that without a roster cap or a larger roster cap there would be possibility for exploitation so as to give one team an advantage over any other team. Let us go with a roster cap of 24 players. 13 EU players, and 11 NA players. That would make it a majority EU team, however, Let us say it was a "Dream team" of EU players, and all of these 11 players were from the Eastern seabord. Or even worse. The North East. That's a team of Americans, and a team of Europeans roughly split. But under the rules system. Games would have to be played in NYC or Europe. In an NYC match it would be a scrim played solely by the NA portion, and in a European match it would be played by the EU people. That completely kills the fairness system, and gives a huge advantage to this team over others. Teams that have mostly Western American players who have already complained to me about this system will riot over this as the system was exploited. Other teams won't be happy as well, because they followed the spirit of the tournament, while this team didn't. And then the admins would have to step in, and what could we exactly do? We'd be stuck in a bind. If we severely cut their roster, to make it so that this exploit can't happen. They'd be up in arms, and would try to force us to in order of fairness that they don't quit, have us cut everyone's roster to a roster cap of let us say 16. We do that, and then we have a riot, and a huge disruption. Or what if multiple teams used this exploit? What then. This would only lead to a huge headache, and allowing no roster cap would be like allowing Pandora's box. I've brought up your team before Blacktide, because you exemplify the notion that "If I can do it, I should do it." It's a major reason people bring your team up. And let's be honest here, I expect at least this notion has or could cross through some peoples minds who could execute it. So we set a roster cap. 16 is the very limit as it would mean 8 players EU and 8 Players NA if a team split it roughly 50/50 in terms of location. AKA. In a match one side would have to use the player of another continent. Lower would have been better for this, but we tried to have the roster cap as high as possible. There is a team exception form for teams that will be provided that will allow teams to add a player over 16 on a case by case basis however, and that is our goal.

2) A 24 player roster cap means that there would be 3 full teams theoretically. That is extremely gluttonous in my opinion. Teams most definitely do not need that amount of players. I've talked with William and he provided a sort of explanation of why -some- people may feel against this. They feel that clans enter tournaments,  and not teams. But that is not the point of a tournament in truth. It's a competition where teams are fielded that compete against each other to determine the winner. While teams can be fielded from a clan, or even multiple teams. The difference is that, it's not actually a clan competing. Small difference, but necessary. 

3) Allowing no roster cap or raising the roster cap would gut the FA, Player Trading, and Draft pool system completely. Which is an integral part of the tournament. Something that I created in my head to help with fledgling teams trying to field teams. And to allow the formation of new teams for this tournament. As well as to allow the continuation of some teams during the tournament that might hit some snags.

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Concerns of "Is it worth it to feild an EU Team:"

Absolutely considering this-

1) All playoff teams will be receiving a portion of the prizepool. Of course the lions share is to the first place team, but still.

2) GA beat BkS during a match in the regular season. Even going so far as to 8-0 them on Frosty. So yes. It is possible to beat top ranked teams, given preparation.

3) Alot of top ranked players are from the West coast, and most of wK which is the top team is majority West coast.

4) Germany is around 100 same as france and gb. Dutch also have extremely good pings, which is less than 100. Poland should be around 120-130? If you guys want to test your ping feel free to hop on GK_Duel or any GK server that is public. They are NYC servers.
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Announcement to be made:

I'm highly pleased to announce that after talking with Lagstro yesterday. He proposed a change to the format. He was willing to compromise, and he in short changed the equation to change the result. He suggested a First To Three format instead of Best of Four or First to Four. this would lead to at minimum 12 rounds, and maximum 20 rounds without ties. He felt it was the best solution, as do I for streamers, commentators, and players. As well as the game. Still allowing for comebacks during a set. Noone likes to watch a team get curb stomped, noone likes to curb stomp a team, and noone likes to be curb stomped. However, matches that would be interesting and close could last up to 20 rounds which is alright for everyone, because it would be an intense match up. He also said that if this format was used wK would make a team. I said that if he could guarentee that, then I would talk to the team and get this format, as i liked it myself and i could push it through and convince them of its merits.

I've talked to every single member of the team except for Scar, and everyone has said yes. It's slated to happen. Just want to have a complete consensus of everything before I pull the trigger, and change it in the thread. But I am happy to tell you all that we are willing to compromise on stuff that can be compromised on, if you guys give us a valid reason to, and in short change the equation for a different result.

So what does this all mean? It means the match format will be first to three, and that wK will be making a team!