Recent content by Gasset

Name: Gasset
ID: 2046265
Main Class: Infantry
Second Class: Cavalry
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/sangiorterralliure/
TaleWorlds:
Interested in leading a team?: No
Would you mind/Do you want to call for your team even if you aren't the captain?: No

I'm soooo hyped over this 

Alyss said:

Catalonia will win NC2018

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See you next NC everyone  !

I apologise if I snapped. I've been days participating in demonstrations, rallies and other stuff. I am a little bit on the edge.

Some trivia.

The Legion has a goat as a mascot btw. The goat parades along, with its sexy uniform. I think I read somewhere that during the colonial wars in Morrocco they had a monkey. I would have loved to see that.

As a matter of fact you can buy recreations of their uniforms in kinky shops for your special needs 

Jean-Chrysostôme Bruneteau de Sainte-Suzanne said:

Rodrigo Ribaldo said:

What if they are hugged and kissed by federal officers?

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Spoiler: I'm in

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Oh they don't send those buddy

Rodrigo Ribaldo said:

You get glimpses of real nationalism ("no respect!") between the cool-headed arguments about democracy and such. At least we know what motivates Gasset. Which is not much given he's a teenager, most easily swayed group for identity politics including nationalism. Sorry dude, not your fault really.

What are the average Catalan inhabitants thinking? It's hard to know without a trustworthy poll, and tomorrow's vote is fully politicized to bring showdown with Madrid and strengthen the independence movement. It's not a serious democratic question at all.

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That was sort of harsh from you. I am not a teen, or some kind of hardcore mindless nationalist-nativist... I am not swayed by anyone. My actions, words and thoughts are freely mine.
Your statement sort of made me feel bad, like if you were patronizing me and treating me like a child when I defended my point of view on this subject without offending anyone (or at least I try to). Keep in mind that this subject is close to my heart in many aspects and I might sound very agitated in some of my posts.
I AM an average Catalan inhabitant, not some kind of brainwashed hooligan, like pictured above. I can't think of any polls to refer you to at the moment, there are many and I am not sure of which is really the most accurate one. Tomorrow's vote (if it's held) will be indeed highly politicized, but that's on both sides. The Catalan gov side for creating a huge amount of expectation around this event for weeks without really knowing how the outcome will be and the Spanish government for escalating the tension with its threats and poor handling of the situation.

This is a serious democratic question. It has all the tools and characteristics that -considering the situation the regional gov is in- a referendum has. And the answer will be binding. Those who choose not to vote can freely do so, but they shouldn't freak out once the result is implemented. If the government does NOT implement the result I will personally be very disappointed, and it will surely create an enormous sense of frustration, and it goes for both the yes and no.

Rodrigo Ribaldo said:

The vote won't count as too few people would come and vote. No democratic mandates would be given for that reason only.

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We'll see tomorrow

Sure, you can tell yourself that Catalans are Spaniards, not distinct in any way whatsoever, if it makes you sleep better. Go ahead and deny that we are a community which shares a common culture that has been going on for centuries (despite the many several attempts to wipe it out), attached to a clearly demarcated land, with our unique values, a common past and a project for the future. Please, tell yourself that we are a romantic movement made up of 4 peasants brainwashed by an elite group of politicians who control our every thought and action. Deny what we are -a nation- and object our right of self determination since, after all, we are as Spanish as someone from Toledo, identically so. That type of behaviour is precisely what made millions of Catalans feel disconnected from Spain over the last years. There is no lack of regard to our "fellow countrymen" since we stopped thinking of them like that a LONG time ago.

Are some of you blind?

Can't you see that our demands are not based off egocentrism and selfishness? We are solidary, and we have been for years, with Europe, and with the rest of the regions of Spain. But for fraternity to be really possible, you need respect. And respect must go both ways, when there isn't any respect it ceases to be solidarity to become unjustifiable economic spoliation.

Can't you see further than the economic aspects of independance? We are not solely concerned about the economic aspects of our lives, the Catalan independence movement started before the crisis, before Franco, before Primo de Rivera, before Cánovas and Sagasta...it's an identity and cultural issue, not only an economic one. Some posters here are obsessed with us being filthy rich bankers that refuse to share anything with anyone. And that's NOTHING of the sort. If our region managed to rise above the country's backwardness it was due to our industrious nature, creativity, heart, will to achieve our goals and pure hard work.

Can't you see that a movement of millions that have been continuously protesting peacefully is not guided by the hand of the politicians? It is us who elected them in the first place. We elected the government to fulfill our electoral mandate, and that is what they are doing. Some of these MP's and gov officials in Parliament weren't even separatists to begin with. It's a movement that starts and moves from the bottom, not the top. Directed and guided by grassroots organizations and the people. It is the ordinary people who, right now, organize groups in every city and village to defend the electoral colleges from police and unionist hooligans, sleeping overnight and safeguarding our sovereignty.

Can't you see that we aren't a bunch of nationalist-tribalist narrow minded dorks? There is a Catalan ethnicity, nevertheless where you are from is not what we care the most. Heck, we are a crossroads territory for the cultures and nations of the Mediterranean sea, we have been for centuries and we will be for years to come. All of them left their mark, including Spain. And we do not shy away from it, we aknowledge it as part of our identity. We have people from all over the world, from different backrounds throughout the political spectrum. What ties us is the common values, language, culture and fierce love of freedom and motherland.

What makes us different, in your eyes, than Tibetans, Québécois, Walloons, Flemish, Scots, Basques, Faroese and so on?
If the methods of the Spanish state, such as the deployment of 10.000 military police on the streets of Barcelona, arrests of government officials and ordinary citizens on the charges of sedition, the shutting down of webpages, the seizing of ballot boxes and papers, the summoning of 712 of the region's 948 mayors to court for collaborating with the voting, the gradual erosion of individual rights, etcetera don't convince you that, if the law is unjust, one must disobey it, I honestly don't know what can I say to convince you otherwise. Democracy, popular mandate, human rights and self determination are above a Constitution and Rule of Law that does not guarantee those.

Tomorrow is the day. I won't post anymore for some time after things calm down. I hope no one gets injured tomorrow, and we are allowed to peacefully vote and ask the millions of eligible voters if they want their country to remain a part or Spain or to become a free, independent Republic. Threats do no longer affect us at this stage, they pledged to stop the vote, so be it, they will find the people defending the ballot boxes and the electoral colleges.

Last but not least, one video about the student demonstration two days ago in Barcelona (there's a student strike across Catalan universities as we speak) and a very insightful article.

Some articles;

http://www.politico.eu/article/catalonia-referendum-spain-tensions-near-breaking-point/
http://www.politico.eu/article/catalonia-referendum-independence-timeline-how-did-we-get-here/

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/sep/29/colm-toibin-point-of-view-madrid-catalan-separatism

Some interesting developments, specially the Mossos d'Esquadra role in the 1st of October.

Excited about the upcoming tournament

kurczak said:

Incredible. Are you seriously making thinly veiled implications that the way to push through one's political demands is literal terrorism? Which is not only a horrible thing to say, but also factually wrong. The Basque country has had pretty much uninterrupted fiscal autonomy since times immemorial, while Catalonia's was abolished 300 years ago and ETA and their campaigns has nothing to do with it.

What has Catalonia being richer than most of the rest of Spain got to do with anything? Are you saying that any group that is richer than the average of a given political entity has by this virtue of being richer a right to secession? That's an...interesting sentiment. Do you realize, that since the independence movement is apparently pro-EU, the EU also has mechanisms for redistributing wealth between richer and poorer regions? Will it feel better if Catalan money is spent on Lithuania or Bulgaria instead of Extremadura or Andalucia? And that you won't be able to make a sovereign decision on how much you would contribute and who or what it would be spent on?

So, Catalonia accounts for 20.1% of GDP and 20.8% of the tax revenue. My god, what an outrage, what injustice! 0.7% difference! Of course the investment is lower in Catalonia, that's the whole point that you invest in the parts of the country that are less developed. Unless you go full minarchist night watchman state, which doesn't seem to be common among typically left-leaning pro-independence parties, there will be redistribution of wealth, whether its infrastructure or education investments or straight up welfare handouts. Levying taxes from a group and then investing 100% of the taxes into that group makes no sense.

Also, if you are so quick to bring up Catalan economic accomplishments, you should also mention the disproportionately high debt and the fact that Catalonia had to be bailed out by the central government as recently as, what, 2013?

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Woah, don't put words in my mouth. Some awful accusations here.

To begin with I have NEVER said that the way to push forward is terrorism. In my post I did not advocate violence, if someone thinks I did I hope this makes it clear. The Basque fiscal autonomy has existed for centuries alongside other special social and economic rights (fueros/furs) all around the territory of Habsburg Spain. See, Habsburg Spain (1516-1700) was very much different in organization than the latter model implemented. Spain was then a composite monarchy formed by several kingdoms or crowns (for instance the Kingdom of Castille or the Crown of Aragon), which, even being "Spanish" territory held their own institutions and parliaments. Those created fueros (privileges granted by a monarch to the people, clergy and aristocracy). To simply most of these fueros were lost once Habsburg Spain died with Charles the II. The War of Spanish Succession and the enthronement of King Philip the Fifth, who was largely centralist, decided to change the state model Spain had to a centralist one, along the lines of the Castillian laws and institutions and abolished all the "furs" of the Crown of Aragon, including the Catalan ones, 303 years ago. The Basque ones were saved from abolishment since they fought alongside King Philip and, as a reward for their services he let them keep them (which is what I meant when I said by collaborating with royal authorities in my previous post). This ended in the XIXth century and the loss of these fueros were one of the reasons for the Carlists Wars. When it comes to the role of ETA in contemporary Spanish politics it is known that after the ceasefires and ETA's disappearance the fiscal pacts and larger autonomy were tools used to stop the violence and the kale borroka employed by some sectors of basque society. I do know my history. I was born and raised here, do not lesson me or accuse me of praising terrorist violence. Whilst many people (including myself) admired ETA's actions againts francoist officials (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Luis_Carrero_Blanco) and military police we stopped looking up to those actions once they lost their ****ing head and started bombing supermarkets and killing ordinary people, some of them, in Catalonia.

Again, words in my mouth I never said. I never said that being richer gives you the right to secession. And I do not shy away from solidarity. If a region or country is richer than a poorer region or country I support plans for development. I did not complain at all about that. But with solidarity and fraternity amongst peoples comes respect, and respect goes both ways. I do not complain about the redistribution of wealth between the south and us, I complain about the lack of respect we constantly recieve from those regions, even though we help them out constantly by sending funds for education, health services and good infrastructure. And despite being unionists I don't understand (and I do not generalize here, there's great people and idiots everywhere, even home) the constant stream of hatred, bad reputation, constant media harassment, stupid stereotypes there are about us when we sheltered their people by the millions and most of us have family there, or other connections. I can't stand going there and having to answer akward questions about my political alignment or people who straight up ask you why do you speak Catalan with your family there. It's stupid and it makes me sad that we can't get along.

I don't expect an enourmous amount of investment but I hope for SOME investment. As in, you should see the state of infrastructures here, the lack of funding for schools, healthcare and specially transport. It's unbelievable the amount of high-speed rails that exist from small villages to Madrid when the mediterranean area (Catalonia, Valencia and the Balearic Islands) where most of the money and trade happen is so badly connected, with a crappy regional train system which is heavily underfunded and ignored.

I am starting to think that whatever I say will be spinned around againts me, I hope this doesn't trascend opposition to secession into opposition to whatever I say.

Going to answer to some questions asked, and also reply to some statements given during the posts I've missed yesterday!

Prince Naga
-Catalonia economic miracle was partly due to people and machinery leaving Andalucia, and by being apart of Spain, whilst stating that tourism alone won't save Catalonia if it seceded?

The Catalonia economic miracle largely mirrors the bigger Spanish miracle which happened between 1959 to 1974 and spans through the end of postwar era Spain until the death of Francisco Franco, this miracle is normally regarded to be caused (amongst other things) by the substitution of old government falangist officials to the new "technocrats", who abandoned falangist economic doctrines and moved on to economic liberalism (whilst still embracing the Francoist political system) and implemented modern development plans which reinvigorated the economy of the three main economic centers (Catalonia, Madrid and the Basque Country). In Catalonia, as you mentioned, aside from these ocurrences happening across Spain we also got a steady flow of migrants from the rural poverty post-war stricken regions of Spain (such as Andalucía or Extremadura) who moved to Catalonia in search of employment and opportunities that didn't exist in their home regions. As I mentioned in previous posts this immigration wave is the first one in Catalonia, beggining in the sixties, and created a dramatic change in demographics. From 1900 to 1940 Catalonia's population was of a steady 2 million, most of them ethnic Catalans, and by the 1970's the population already reached 5 millions. This created problems (such as the lack of integration of many first-generation immigrants and their children) but it also created unprecedented growth, recovery and wealth, and these families were able to find the opportunities and new begginings they set off for. These immigrants from the south are regarded by most people (and myself as well) to have greatly contributed to create the economic powerhouse Catalonia is today, and many Catalans if not most have descendants that came from those regions. In your question you state that they brought machinery, which is not true. There wasn't any economic development in these regions and they remain backwards today in comparison to the northern regions, who have been largely handing out subsidies for their development even now. Catalonia, in the other hand, already was largely industralized by then. We were the first region in Spain to embrace the Industrial Revolution and Barcelona has been and is a important hub for commerce in the European continent, being the richest region of Spain as we speak and having a higher GDP than some European nations, Catalonia is right now one of the Four Motors for Europe, along with Lombardy, Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes and Baden-Württemberg). A free, sovereign and independent Catalan Republic can surely survive as a free nation. We do not overdepend of tourism, our economy is well diversified.

-I honestly don't see why Catalonia should secede though, its an autonomous region, and I've read Barcelona collects its own taxes separate from Spain, has its own Parliament, so as an outsider on the outside I don't get it.

Becuase a great segment of Catalan society believes that they would be better off if their homeland was an independent state, for economic, historic and identity reasons. And since the legal framework makes it near impossible to change the constitution and have a legal referendum, and the other side doesn't seem to want to dialogue or present alternatives we are arranging our own vote so people can decide, not a decade or fifty years until the Spaniards change their mind, but now, since the problem is causing tensions and must be resolved. We are a nation and we have the right to decide, it doesn't matter how much people try to deride and degrade us, and it doesn't matter if our backs aren't being whipped, no one can shut our voices, we will use our right of self-determination even though this means breaking the law and disobeying, since we have no other way around. Now, it is true that we have our own autonomy, as every Spanish region, however this autonomy has been constantly reduced over the years (in the fiscal, language and legislative level), and our Statute of Autonomy was butchered by the Constitutional Court in 2010 becuase it said that Catalonia was a nation, even though that Statute was voted overwhelmigly with a 74% of support also with the support of traditional unionist parties. There is a complete lack of respect for Catalan institutions and political will, and this lack of respect was already existing LONG BEFORE nationalists were voted into office and the campaign of civil disobedience started. What is happening now is the final escalation of a long series of events.

About the taxes...we don't collect our own. Only one region does, the Basque Country, and you can guess why they got such a sweet fiscal pact that allows them to collect and administer their own wealth whilst sharing almost nothing with the central government hint We, in the other hand, pay 20.8% of the taxes collected in ALL SPAIN (€37.8B), even though we don't recieve half of the investments we ask for in infrastructures. In fact we hardly recieve any investments by the central government and have to do the stuff ourselves or with EU help. Our economic autonomy is totally gone now since the central government took over our finances to stop any money from going to the referendum.

Calradianın Bilgesi
-I remember being told or reading that Spain tries to make federalism as symmetrical(in contrast with asymmetrical autonomy enjoyed by Quebec) as possible because of constitution.

Spain is not officially a federal country, although politically speaking it is VERY decentralized. The Spanish State is integrated by 17 autonomous communities and 2 autonomous cities (the Spanish african enclaves of Ceuta and Melilla), both groups being the highest or first-order administrative division in the country. Autonomous communities are integrated by provinces, of which there are 50 in total, and in turn, provinces are integrated by municipalities. In Catalonia, two additional divisions exist, the comarques (sing. comarca) and the vegueries (sing. vegueria) both of which have administrative powers; comarques being aggregations of municipalities, and the vegueries being aggregations of comarques. Although the country is politically decentralized it is culturally centralized under the identity and culture of Castilla (Castile), which has unified the country during centuries under their model. In some places they suceeded in their effort, in others, they haven't. The constant refusal of aknowledging the cultural diversity Spain has by Castilians has put them at odds with Galicians, Basques and, of course, Catalans.

-How much more power does Catalonia has compared to other regions in Spain?

6.3% of Spain's territory, 16% of the population, 20.1% of the GDP, 25.6% of the exports, 20.8% of the taxes paid, 25.7% of the research papers published, 23.8% of foreign tourists and for the lols 28.9% of olympic medalists in Rio 2016  .

Sources:

Some news (some I already mentioned in previous posts)

Rodrigo Ribaldo said:

So, would Barcelona play in the Russian league then? What does Messi think about the agricultural challenges awaiting him there?

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I don't see Messi thriving in that weather. Although I'd love to see our team run around the steppe.
This made me laugh but let's move on from the Russia thing

Nice picture btw, Catalan artist