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Feints passing through the body while dueling
- Thread starter pango
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It's not as easy as reducing it. As have already been discussed earlier in this thread, latency plays a big part on this issue. And sure, if they reduce the feint window it can work, but only if the reduction is big enough to prevent an issue in a certain latency limit. Then what is the limit? What is the slowest ping that we're going to accommodate for? Are we going to accommodate perfect animation for 100ms latency? 150ms? 200ms? How small will the window be by then? Will feint just not work at all if we reduce the window that much? How will it affect singleplayer that has 0ms latency? Feinting in singleplayer will be really hard with such a small window. Oh then make separate feint window lengths for singleplayer and multiplayer? Then people will feel that multiplayer feinting doesn't work because they could feint normally in singleplayer, but the window is much smaller in multiplayer.
See how complicated it is? Solving issues is not that easy. It takes time to figure out the causes, solutions and consequences. Let alone implementing them. Knowing this is why I can be patient with the development of this game.
Like a wise man once said:
It would be nice to test, discuss and see how these things would work, rather than hope for the best.
I said before that this wouldn't be a problem if you had only 0-1 ping and it works fine for SP. MP mechanics have to take ping differences to the consideration and make sure game is still playable with reasonable ping differences. Besides let's be real, who even feints against bots? they don't fall for it. Also I'm quite sure average SP player wouldn't even notice the difference when there's all these other weird things happening.
Moth_Queen
Recruit
Ok now, anyone can go see you, sir, playing with Kuzahit archer. How you feint with polearm that goes through the enemy model is 100% why people complain here.
Physical interaction may not be possible, but truncap adjustment and feint window shall be adjusted, especially for deadly 2H weapons.
Zoonanay
Knight
If we start asking for things based on what we believe TW will be able to accomplish, the list will be - Duel Mode, Battle Mode and Servers, if we're lucky. I don't really see the point in stagnating all discussion on balance based on what TW could theoretically accomplish, especially since none of us know the exact parameters and conditions the game's coding allows for.
Side blocks blocking up attacks could be stopped by a simple IF statement, depending on how the code is structured.
I haven't played in a few months, but I rarely found releasing my swing too late to be a problem, particularly with screen-turn acceleration. I only occasionally blocked too late when specifically trying to produce a phase feint. Perhaps this is personal preference.
Personally, I find phase feints rather "cheap". They're less of a visual trick that out speeds/decieves your enemy, but a visual speed that uses physics' internal logic against them, much like hold feints. When you see a blade pass through your blade, you expect it to block, similarly, you don't expect someone to instantly spin their body with an inverse hold feint for the same reason, physical logic.
I'd rather see accelerations to switch feinting, and thus also set block delay to make gameplay faster than rely on these tricks to kill, despite the audio cue giveaway.
It's partially an issue of how the game morphs from a feint into another attack, partially due to the large swing arcs, and partially due to the speed of released attacks.
Basically because the attack starts so far back, the attack needs to release quite fast in order to feel reactive. When you cancel it, because it has travelled so far and so fast, it can't just insta-reset; would look awful. And because the game needs to feel fast, have fast blocking (the feint button), the attack reset still needs to be relatively quick otherwise you have no feint and swing manipulation.
The result is the attack stops along the swing arc, "hovering" slightly, and can then be followed up with another attack very quickly from any direction.
You don't need to add collision to feints, Warband worked the same way attacks and timings were simply clearer and more concise.
Basically because the attack starts so far back, the attack needs to release quite fast in order to feel reactive. When you cancel it, because it has travelled so far and so fast, it can't just insta-reset; would look awful. And because the game needs to feel fast, have fast blocking (the feint button), the attack reset still needs to be relatively quick otherwise you have no feint and swing manipulation.
The result is the attack stops along the swing arc, "hovering" slightly, and can then be followed up with another attack very quickly from any direction.
You don't need to add collision to feints, Warband worked the same way attacks and timings were simply clearer and more concise.
Do you really want the devs to spend a month fine-tuning this instead of working on other stuff? How long will it take to finish the game if they keep wasting time sitting on little things like this?
That's straight up impossible and it's not even the game's fault. No internet architecture existing right now is that fast, and there's physical distance to deal with. On top of that there's processing time and competition with other traffics on your internet route. Just think of how fast a millisecond is.
Oh yes I want them to shut down everything until thing is sorted out.
No ****.
Sorry. Did I hit a nerve by showing you how stupid your demand is?
Sorry what am i demanding? I stated that this wouldn't be a problem with if ping was 0.
It's not the game's fault. Next you're going to tell me that the bugs in the game are not the game's fault. Stop being a fanboi.
Kripaz didn't even demand anything, he just said that it is only fixable with a 0 ping. You will literally do anything except admit that taleworlds badly designed their combat system
Which I explained is impossible to gain. Why so mad over that? What? Was he offended I explained something so obvious? If he knew it was impossible, then why bring up that suggestion? Of course I'd assume he didn't know. He thought shortening the feint window would fix it, but I disagreed and explained why. You're free to dismantle my argument if you have any idea, or bring up another possible solution. This is a discussion. If we can figure out a way to fix the issue in OP, then that's jolly good. Bring it over to the devs and see if they can implement it.
And let's assume that I'm indeed a fanboy who's just "defending" Taleworlds for everything they do, not just some guy who likes explaining things. What are you gonna do to stop me? Like geez. Calm the hell down.
ffs man... I didn't suggest bringing ping down with magic powers, I stated that SP combat if fine, because it doesn't have ping differences! It seems you are trying take whole statement out of context on purpose.
No not my intention at all. I thought you meant it wouldn't be an issue if MP had 0-1 ping, because we've seen it being fine in SP.
You don't need to explain how reaching 0 ping is impossible. It's pretty self-explanatory. Also bring it over to the devs and see if they can implement it? Like really?
What? Sorry for not ignoring the main ****ing clue that is the visuals. I don't really have an ultra instict power like Goku, and I am not saying I can NEVER block it. I can usually block it but still, when you can't it is just frustrating to see the sword slash through me, and assume that I got hit or I blocked it or something. If I have to ignore the broken visual cues, and depend on sound or animation clues, what else do I need to show you that it is an error? It already proves my point.
It's laughable to see some of the hardcore players with 5000+ hours and counting invested in MB series say that it's our problem, we should adapt to this, depend on sound and animation clues and can easily block it blablablahh.
Bruh, not everybody got time for that. I am a casual player, I don't have the time. I don't want to specifically educate my ear or my eyes to adapt to/overcome a blatant visual error. That's BS.
Bruh, not everybody got time for that. I am a casual player, I don't have the time. I don't want to specifically educate my ear or my eyes to adapt to/overcome a blatant visual error. That's BS.
I'd just like to point out that considering how strong movement speed is, along with how janky weapon reach can be (often times weirdly short), it's entirely plausible to read that "feint" as a missed swing. If I so much as tap s key once I'm usually out of my opponent's range.
Sure, there's a half-assed "audio" clue (that doesn't even make the feint swish sound 50% of time) which OP ignored, but the fact remains that the animation is total crap. It's a feint that is visually presented as a full swing, and that is bogus.