Feints passing through the body while dueling

[pango]

I just don't know what to say, the gif will explain it I hope. It's pretty obvious.

It is said that Bannerlord thrives on physics, yet this is so frustrating. Feints should also be blockable, and sword should not pass through the body.

 

[Silvernj]

If they would be blockable it would literally remove attack as we know it. Everybody would be just hitting you with camera movement which is totally cancerous

 

[Greedalicious]

I've died to this alot too. Its frustrating but hard to fix

 

[Namakan]

physics based combat

 

[Kripaz]

Good old "too long feint cancellation time". It works just fine if you have 0-1 ping.

 

[pango]

If they would be blockable it would literally remove attack as we know it. Everybody would be just hitting you with camera movement which is totally cancerous

I dont think so, maybe not all feints, but feints like ''right attack-cancel-overhead attack'' just like the one in the second clip should be blockable or maybe it should be limited so that these kinds of things don't occur. I don't know. There has got to be a way to make it less obvious, somehow. I dont remember experiencing this problem in Warband.

 

[pango]

Or maybe, attack cancellation window should be less forgiving. You should not be able to cancel the attack milliseconds before it hits the target or sword.

 

[Silvernj]

I dont think so, maybe not all feints, but feints like ''right attack-cancel-overhead attack'' just like the one in the second clip should be blockable or maybe it should be limited so that these kinds of things don't occur. I don't know. There has got to be a way to make it less obvious, somehow. I dont remember experiencing this problem in Warband.

Well you may not think so but that totaly gives a window for an abuse and players will soon adapt and start abusing it against you.

Or maybe, attack cancellation window should be less forgiving. You should not be able to cancel the attack milliseconds before it hits the target or sword.

Its already less forgiving than warband. Swing arcs length should be reduced it would help I guess. But actually its not only games fault - you can still adjust and get better at blocking lul

 

[Grank]

Yeah even if you fix the core animation, I don't think that will stop it from happening in a multiplayer match with latency.

 

[pango]

Well you may not think so but that totaly gives a window for an abuse and players will soon adapt and start abusing it against you.


Its already less forgiving than warband. Swing arcs length should be reduced it would help I guess. But actually its not only games fault - you can still adjust and get better at blocking lul

What do you mean it's not only games fault? The fricking sword passes passes through my body as if its a Swiss cheese lol. So am I expected to ALWAYS neglect this visual cue where there is a blatant mistake and play through it everytime it occurs? What kind of a logic is that? Never experienced this in Warband. I am sure there is something to be done about it.

And I dont think feinting is less forgiving than Warband, I've tried it a lot of times. You can still feint/cancel the attack after you swing it almost 180 degrees from the starting point, if you time it perfectly along with rotation of the body of the character via mouse. That's BS.

 

[pango]

I still believe the movements of characters still feel very floaty, and lightweight and that really hurts the overall feel of the combat.

 

[Zoonanay]

Yeah even if you fix the core animation, I don't think that will stop it from happening in a multiplayer match with latency.

I dont know the role latency plays, but I rarely saw these phase hits in Warband. There were other rampant glitches and abuses, but I never saw this become commonplace as it has in Bannerlord. Something in the mechanics is also at play, not just the latency.

 

[Moth_Queen]

Not only this problem exists, but paired with turncap it is currently a cornerstone meta in top-level skirmish.

This is literally how you spamfeint someone with a shield or drag a feint through your opponent's model to trick him into panic block.

So, instead of intended stuff like chambering we are stuck with this glitchy BS.

In Warband you do not have a turncap that huge, and feint window is far smaller: you can not fake a full-swing!

I do not really know why this is such a huge deal to fix.

 

[Younes]

I seriously do not care if this is somehow an engine limitation or intended as design.


As mentioned before, the visual cue is everything to this. Fix this.

 

[Grank]

I dont know the role latency plays, but I rarely saw these phase hits in Warband. There were other rampant glitches and abuses, but I never saw this become commonplace as it has in Bannerlord. Something in the mechanics is also at play, not just the latency.

If the latency is longer than the input speed, the recipient will fail to catch the feint in time to render it properly.

 

[Demoulius]

This is literally how you spamfeint someone with a shield or drag a feint through your opponent's model to trick him into panic block.

So, instead of intended stuff like chambering we are stuck with this glitchy BS.

As someone who is not in the know, how does this work and what happens?

I often see people attacking very fast and I have found no way to attack this fast myself. My own theory is that the game counts feints as actual attacks (with all the audio and visual ques attached, even shields taking damage) and im wondering if thats what you are talking about.

 

[Moth_Queen]

As someone who is not in the know, how does this work and what happens?

I often see people attacking very fast and I have found no way to attack this fast myself. My own theory is that the game counts feints as actual attacks (with all the audio and visual ques attached, even shields taking damage) and im wondering if thats what you are talking about.

You need to drag your mouse into the attack to hit your enemy at your 3 o'clock. Or at 10 if you swing from the left.

Also, if you manage to active-block a hit (you see sparkles), your next swing will be significally faster, too.

Combine that with correct stance - and every hit is instant.

 

[Zoonanay]

If the latency is longer than the input speed, the recipient will fail to catch the feint in time to render it properly.

What do you mean by longer than input speed? The input speed of the mouse, the screen's input speed, or how long the game takes to convert button press into in-game response via code?

Also, what do you mean by render it properly? Rendering the animation of the block or rendering the animation of the swing?

IMO, this is a combination of a short window for "attackers remoarse" letting feints occur later in the animation, the servers being less stable than in Warband, but mainly I'd imagine it's the physics-based engine not being properly sync'd between animation and physics object, leading to animations that visually collide without physics objects ever making collision. An issue not present in Warband due to a simpler blocking mechanic.

 

[kumar]

As someone who is not in the know, how does this work and what happens?

I often see people attacking very fast and I have found no way to attack this fast myself. My own theory is that the game counts feints as actual attacks (with all the audio and visual ques attached, even shields taking damage) and im wondering if thats what you are talking about.

What people do is feint until you open up and try to attack. In that critical moment they finally release the strike for real and speed it up by shoving their mouse quickly into the direction of the attack. Stance and attacking angle also play a role in determining which strike connects earlier with the respective target.

This way it might seem to you that they attack faster than you somehow, but with the right timing, use of your mouse and good positioning you can strike just as fast and be ahead of your opponent in the described situation.

I can assure you that feints do no damage to yourself or your shield. If you hear no block sound while defending against a strike then it's been a feint. The best possible perfectly timed feint makes only an air cutting sound.

 

[Grank]

What do you mean by longer than input speed? The input speed of the mouse, the screen's input speed, or how long the game takes to convert button press into in-game response via code?

Also, what do you mean by render it properly? Rendering the animation of the block or rendering the animation of the swing?

It takes time for the enemy's input to travel to our PC. When our PC gets the information, it renders the action according to its default state. A swing from the enemy will be rendered (animated/shown) as a normal swing until we receive info from the enemy that it's actually a feint.

Now, take a look at that gif again and imagine the moment the "swing" should have been "cancelled." The gif is late by miliseconds. If the latency (network delay) is bigger than those miliseconds, it will not animate "properly". The swing animation will run longer than it should be. It will look different from the feinter's perspective. It might actually look "properly" on his end.

The thing is, feints look accurate in my personal experience. Maybe I just don't remember it when it happened, but I mostly see people doing these "jerking off" movements when they spam feints, and to be fair, my ping is 30-50, which is really good.

I'm not saying this is a non-issue that should be ignored or anything. I'm just explaining because you asked. Had to clarify that with all the outrage in this community.