1.5.7 and beyond

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AVRC

AVRC

Sergeant at Arms
Hi all,

As you all know, 1.5.7 is out. Even though it solves many problems we wanted to solve some issues still remain and I wanted go over some of them.

Crossbows
Crossbows are going to have further changes. The confirmed ones are increasing inaccuracy when jumping and increasing inaccuracy when making a sharp turn which involves the feet to reposition.
The remaining problems we want fix are crossbows being too effective at very close range and being able to switch between weapons and getting ready to fire too fast. There are multiple ways we are discussing to handle these issues and they will be taken care of in an immediate patch.

Cavalry
Cavalry stats have been reduced to lower the dominance of cavalry on the battlefield, but this creates the issue of them being weaker to everything rather than mostly spears, pikes and lances. The main problem is ranged troops being a bit too effective against Cavalry at the moment. We are testing some solutions to remedy this issue in an immediate patch.

Heavy Infantry
We expect the changes mentioned above to make Heavy Infantry much more relevant, especially against cavalry, and have some other plans to improve their melee ability further.

Skirmishers
There is some concern about Skirmishers being too strong this patch. We will closely monitor the situation and make adjustments as required.

Captain Mode
AI effectiveness for all range troops have been increased. If the result is still not enough following analytics and feedback we are looking forward to making further changes. We are aware that AI is struggling sometimes with Throwing Weapons, we are looking into the issue. Slowing Down bug is also on a Critical Level to be fixed.
There have been improvements to AI weapon selection and we are looking forward to your feedback. We are also starting to work on AI 'abuse' fixes and there are further AI improvements planned.

Balance changes that involve altering numbers or perks are much easier to finalize and hotfix into the live branch, as we have been doing frequently lately. However, combat mechanics related changes take longer to implement, test and finalize as they affect single player as well. That is why we are asking for more of your patience as we sort those out.

Let's not forget that this is a game still in development and we will keep listening to the community and making changes until both the players and developers are happy with the result. Feel free to bring up any other issues you want discussed in this thread, in a civil manner of course :smile:

Cheers.

edit: Also some server crashes are happening, we are looking into it.
 
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AVRC said:
Cavalry
Cavalry stats have been reduced to lower the dominance of cavalry on the battlefield, but this creates the issue of them being weaker to everything rather than mostly spears, pikes and lances. The main problem is ranged troops being a bit too effective against Cavalry at the moment. We are testing some solutions to remedy this issue in an immediate patch.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the post,

Regarding Cavalry and its "issue" concerning range units. Have you considered the following solution : Increase the usefulness of armor against projectiles in general. I do not know how it is coded, but i assume the % of damage reduction is the same for all weapons except for blunt. I think the % of the damage reduction caused by armor should be significantly higher against Projectiles than it is vs regular weapons.

This solution helps with 2 problems :
Makes the horses tankier vs projectiles in order to fix this issue you are pointing out
Buffs heavy infantry classes against archery.

Projectiles vs non armored units remains relatively the same.
 
Crossbows
Glad that more work is being put on crossbows

Cavalary
How is a 20 drop to health making horses super weak against everything. A knight can still take a pavise shield and block most attacks.

A good way to deal with cav is to just change the animations making it harder for cav to hit the infantry. The fact that you can go hard right and move into a stab while an infantryman has no chance to do any damage is the main problem. In other scenarios, the major problem is cav being able to take everything on a horse. A good thing is to put class restrictions on cavalry.

I mean just yesterday I saw a tournament match where a team just completely omitted infantry and went from being 3-0d to winning the whole game by just running cavalry and archers.
 
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Crypex said:
Crossbows
Glad that more work is being put on crossbows

Cavalary
How is a 20 drop to health making horses super weak against everything. A knight can still take a pavise shield and block most attacks.
Click to expand...

What seems to be stopping them from balancing them properly is the fact that archers (which are broken) are their only true counter and they probably kill the horses under them faster. When it comes to Infantry, clearly a -20 hp changes nothing lol. Our blades will keep bouncing on the reared horse next to us and it will still take us 15 hits to down the damn thing. Maybe TW devs are using too much Skirmish data and not enough Siege and TDM ones, because you just need to play TDM or Siege as infantry for 10 mins to produce a list of 20 reasons why horses are broken.
 
What if spears had special modifier against horses like axes have versus shields (only when wielded on foot)? Not very elegant, but should do the job.
 
Firunien said:
@Crypex @Yukmouth++
Are you guys illiterate or purposefully not reading the part of horse armour beein reduced as well?
Click to expand...
The horse armor is literally not that significant either. Battanian horses without armor are still tanky. I've seen horses without the armor and still take multiple pillas/shots. The armor will make a 10-20 damage to 30 damage. Health is a stronger determinant of horse survivability than armor. It will still take the horse to get reared multiple times before dying. Unless a team of 3 spears perfectly rears the horse and focuses the rider alone the cav player will be dealt with but still not the horse.
 
Crypex said:
The horse armor is literally not that significant either. Battanian horses without armor are still tanky. I've seen horses without the armor and still take multiple pillas/shots. The armor will make a 10-20 damage to 30 damage. Health is a stronger determinant of horse survivability than armor. It will still take the horse to get reared multiple times before dying. Unless a team of 3 spears perfectly rears the horse and focuses the rider alone the cav player will be dealt with but still not the horse.
Click to expand...
If its not enough they might change it further, but for now Horse tankiness was cut by ~30% if thats not enough for a start what is? Also if you need multiple Pilas to down a horse your are not using them right.
 
Tis all sound good but pls don't make the current game literally unplayable. I think u need to revert skirmishers changes (ms speed as well it is ridiculous) and light cav nerf. We need hot fix!
 
In any case, i still consider that the biggest issue with cavalry is the sound cues. If we could hear properly horses charging behind us (they become silent at high speed) and give us time to turn around and 1v1 them face to face, most issues with cavalry would be rendered way less problematic since you are WAY more secured when you are facing the cav.
 
Turn off the cav hatred fogging your minds and think, or even better, play a little. Light horses are literally made out of paper and can die to one (1) javelin from an Aserai skirmisher to the head or neck. Just because a horse tanked a pila thrown at its ass while it was running away doesn't let you say that they tank pilas.

I don't mind playing with 0 armor light horses, and the heavy cav nerf was very reasonable imo. Cavalry has more than enough counters, sadly, most of them aren't melee which is the biggest issue.
 
Personally I don't get the buff to throwing, it felt useful while not being entirely op before this patch. Now we have 12-16 throwing ammo classes that two shot anything that is not heavy inf and still dies to cav easily because of low armour stats?

This buff to throwing classes is a much higher nerf to heavy inf than it is to cav or archers in my opinion.
 
Yukmouth++ said:
In any case, i still consider that the biggest issue with cavalry is the sound cues. If we could hear properly horses charging behind us (they become silent at high speed) and give us time to turn around and 1v1 them face to face, most issues with cavalry would be rendered way less problematic since you are WAY more secured when you are facing the cav.
Click to expand...
Yeah, occlusion sound would really help and devs said they will implement it, i just hope sooner then later
 
Rangah said:
Turn off the cav hatred fogging your minds and think, or even better, play a little. Light horses are literally made out of paper and can die to one (1) javelin from an Aserai skirmisher to the head or neck. Just because a horse tanked a pila thrown at its ass while it was running away doesn't let you say that they tank pilas.

I don't mind playing with 0 armor light horses, and the heavy cav nerf was very reasonable imo. Cavalry has more than enough counters, sadly, most of them aren't melee which is the biggest issue.
Click to expand...
I inf main and I run cav and still top frag every match/pickup. If an inf main can easily dominate matches with cav then there is a problem. Unless a braindead player chooses to rush spawn like a bot they will be screwed but if you have more than 5 brain cells you will not play like a bot. Lets completely ignore that a horse can take a large shield and block most side attacks. Cav is the easiest class in the game and it only takes a somewhat competent player to competent dominate a lobby.

The changes only affected a handful of cav other cavs are still strong. Brittania cav being the best for cost/survivability.
 
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@AVRC, thanks for the post, it's highly appreciated.
@Yukmouth++ and the effectiveness of projectiles against armor: In WB at least armor used to reduce the damage first by an absolute value and then by a percentage. That meant that armor was more effective agains weapons with low damage per hit. If that still applies to BL one could balance ranged weapons just by decreasing projectile damage compared to melee damage in general.
Einarcf said:
What if spears had special modifier against horses like axes have versus shields (only when wielded on foot)? Not very elegant, but should do the job.
Click to expand...
I think such advantages should come naturally and not be hardcoded where possible. Ideally the length of a spear and the increased micro-maneuverability as inf would be sufficient to give them an edge over cavalry. The rest I would try to do with optimizing hitbockes which is probably not feasable for simple balance patches.
 
Crypex said:
I inf main and I run cav and still top frag every match/pickup. If an inf main can easily dominate matches with cav then there is a problem. Unless a braindead player chooses to rush spawn like a bot they will be screwed but if you have more than 5 brain cells you will not play like a bot. Let completely ignore that a horse can take a large shield and block most side attacks. Cav is the easiest class in the game and it only takes a somewhat competent player to competent dominate a lobby.
Click to expand...
Sounds like you're playing against noobs. Who exactly are you?
 
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