Khuzait still snowballs

[Yukmouth++]

Seriously im getting god damn tired of this snowball bull****. Rework their freaking map movement speed perk for christ sake, Khuzait needs to be balanced so that the other AI can fight them (i dont want ANY cuck boy replying to this thread with their personal idea on how to win vs khuzait as a player, no one cares, it has NOTHING to do with this thread, this thread is about AI vs AI). I'm tired of having to f****g restart campains hoping that the next one will not get snowballed by god damn Khuzait. Its been so many months and this stupid ass problem has been ruining my game experience since day one.
Why the **** doesnt Aserai ever declare war on them ?
Why the **** do they win every siege
Why the **** do they have a perk that makes them unreachable by other AI on the world map
Why the **** do they win every and any encounter with other AI.
Why the **** are they so well positioned on the map making armies starve to death before even reaching them.
Why the **** do all my lords vote against declaring war to them
Why the **** does Southern Empire and Sturgia still suck ass vs them ?

Bring the god damn nerf hammer upon these stupid ass Khuzait already, i think its pretty clear im getting sick and tired of this ****.

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ibb.co

 

[StevieLee7132]

The problem (in my playthroughs at least, e 1.5.6) is really just a diplomacy problem-- no need for nerfing troops or perks. It is rare for anyone to declare war on them, and no one ever gangs up on them. Contrast that with Battania, Vlandia, Sturgia... if they begin to gain any power everyone mobs them, not just those nearby, but even the Aserai and Khuzait. But when Khuzait has twelve or more cities and are at the borders of nearly everyone, they just coast on with no major multi-faction war. So just tweak the diplomacy so that everyone hates them and doesn't resist going to war with them (which would historically be the case anyway... they are outsiders with no benefit to preserving relations).

 

[Yukmouth++]

The problem (in my playthroughs at least, e 1.5.6) is really just a diplomacy problem-- no need for nerfing troops or perks. It is rare for anyone to declare war on them, and no one ever gangs up on them. Contrast that with Battania, Vlandia, Sturgia... if they begin to gain any power everyone mobs them, not just those nearby, but even the Aserai and Khuzait. But when Khuzait has twelve or more cities and are at the borders of nearly everyone, they just coast on with no major multi-faction war. So just tweak the diplomacy so that everyone hates them and doesn't resist going to war with them (which would historically be the case anyway... they are outsiders with no benefit to preserving relations).

Even if factions gangs up on them, they wont kill them because Khuzait moves faster on the world map, bring a huge army in front of their huge army and they will run away faster, they bring a bigger army than southern empires, SE runs away but Khuzait catches them. The army Khuzait ran away from sieges a Khuzait city, the Khuzait army comes to defend, it breaks the siege, the army chases the Khuzait one, Khuzait moves faster. All in all no matter what you do, its the movement speed on the world map that breaks everything. When you look at an empire army, its always filled with Empire Recruits because most of these lords ended up caught at one point or another. This is never the case with Khizait because they keep upgrading they troops over and over because they never get caught off speed.

 

[Dabos37]

Seriously im getting god damn tired of this snowball bull****. Rework their freaking map movement speed perk for christ sake, Khuzait needs to be balanced so that the other AI can fight them (i dont want ANY cuck boy replying to this thread with their personal idea on how to win vs khuzait as a player, no one cares, it has NOTHING to do with this thread, this thread is about AI vs AI). I'm tired of having to f****g restart campains hoping that the next one will not get snowballed by god damn Khuzait. Its been so many months and this stupid ass problem has been ruining my game experience since day one.
Why the **** doesnt Aserai ever declare war on them ?
Why the **** do they win every siege
Why the **** do they have a perk that makes them unreachable by other AI on the world map
Why the **** do they win every and any encounter with other AI.
Why the **** are they so well positioned on the map making armies starve to death before even reaching them.
Why the **** do all my lords vote against declaring war to them
Why the **** does Southern Empire and Sturgia still suck ass vs them ?

Bring the god damn nerf hammer upon these stupid ass Khuzait already, i think its pretty clear im getting sick and tired of this ****.

123 hosted at ImgBB

Image 123 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

Read the snowballing thread, the main issue concerning Khuzaits is the bonus speed for cavalry units. @mexxico has made some changes for the next patch and while Khuzaits will be still OP in 1.5.7, snowballing will be better.

 

[Yukmouth++]

Read the snowballing thread, the main issue concerning Khuzaits is the bonus speed for cavalry units. @mexxico has made some changes for the next patch and while Khuzaits will be still OP in 1.5.7, snowballing will be better.

Why cant they fking quickfix it ?

 

[Apocal]

Why cant they fking quickfix it ?

Because they don't care that much.

 

[Yukmouth++]

Because they don't care that much.

Like for christ sake why dont they just nerf the speed on the map while they figure out ways to bring it back balanced.

 

[Dabos37]

Like for christ sake why dont they just nerf the speed on the map while they figure out ways to bring it back balanced.

Khuzaits cultural bonus is not the main problem here. The main issue is related to cavalry units speed bonus, and it will be nerfed a bit in the next patch. Plus, all factions will be getting more cavalry units in their parties to make a bit better the snowballing.

Completely removing the cavalry bonus is not a good solution because it would make caravans useless, all parties pretty slow, and a lot of player would complain it.

I also hate how OP Khuzaits are, but sadly it has not an easy solution (without taking into account drastic changes like reducing clan tier for all Khuzaits clans or other ugly changes like that).

 

[Yukmouth++]

Khuzaits cultural bonus is not the main problem here. The main issue is related to cavalry units speed bonus, and it will be nerfed a bit in the next patch. Plus, all factions will be getting more cavalry units in their parties to make a bit better the snowballing.

Completely removing the cavalry bonus is not a good solution because it would make caravans useless, all parties pretty slow, and a lot of player would complain it.

I also hate how OP Khuzaits are, but sadly it has not an easy solution (without taking into account drastic changes like reducing clan tier for all Khuzaits clans or other ugly changes like that).

I dont care if they break them temporarily. Make them completely useless for a few months while they figure out WAYS to balance them. This is affecting the game right now, like god damnit every campain is the same, is this a sandbox or a Khuzait bullying other people simulation ?

 

[Nicoseb]

I dont care if they break them temporarily. Make them completely useless for a few months while they figure out WAYS to balance them. This is affecting the game right now, like god damnit every campain is the same, is this a sandbox or a Khuzait bullying other people simulation ?

I get that you're angry, but I don't know what you're trying to accomplish with this thread besides venting out your frustrations. TW are aware of the Khuzait snowballing and are working to fix it, so it's not an obscure issue. Yelling more about it is not going to make them work faster. They have countless other issues to deal with like siege towers not working etc.

I also don't like how long it takes for them to fix it, but like @Dabos37 said, it's not an easy fix.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

Yeah they're doing pretty well. They just get so many incremental advantages from their movement + low tier mounts.

 

[Antaeus]

I dont care if they break them temporarily. Make them completely useless for a few months while they figure out WAYS to balance them. This is affecting the game right now, like god damnit every campain is the same, is this a sandbox or a Khuzait bullying other people simulation ?

The devs have already said they're working on snowballing, and that it's not actually that bad on virtual playthroughs without players. I noticed in your map that you've started taking chunks out of the Empire. Perhaps the Khuzaits might not move so quickly if you weren't weakening the factions that they're fighting?

Players don't always consider that their own actions might exacerbate snowballing problems, as they move to build their own empires, they're weakening the very factions that might otherwise stand a better chance. Again, in the post directly above this, the player's kingdom has literally gutted any ability that any of the remaining empire factions might have to resist the Khuzaits - and in a sense, the player is also snowballing the map.

The real problem with snowballing is that it is bound to happen whenever the player asserts it self on the map. The player is growing their own kingdom, or their own faction's power. They are taking from other factions ability to defend themselves. In this situation the factions that are farthest from the player will take advantage - and exacerbate the snowball. It is inevitable. In fact, I don't get why people want the map to stay basically the same, except for their own expansion. They shouldn't be able to have it both ways.

The only real way to prevent snowballing is to either 1. Have the player not expand or 2. Introduce mechanics to make expansion undesirable. The first point would break the game. They've started working on the second by adding rebellions, the impending alliance system should improve the situation somewhat more.

 

[FlagsDontLie]

I would really know what will happen to a campaign when you join Empire , Sturgia or Aserai and fight agains Khuzait.

Are they still snowballing or is it then balanced?
Imo there has to be a faction which is stronger than others.

Like Total War Warhammer has the Chaos which can snowball in lategame so BL need one like khuzait

 

[Gerrodot]

The problem of nomads is not in a Snowball, but in such stupid neophyte players who can not even turn on their heads for a minute:

1. Work on the balance is underway, nomads will have their speed bonus reduced.

2. The strength of the faction is dictated by their location, finances, trade opportunities, and so on-nomads have a natural advantage in cavalry-in its number, mobility, and diversity-it's something like the Huns - they SHOULD BE STRONG.

3. Let's make all factions strictly cavalry nomads, so that pan-headed players like the one who created this post will be happy.

4. The fact that your party was dominated by nomads does not mean that everyone is strictly the same, in my three parties, for example, they dominated once, in the rest the leadership was captured by Battania and the Southern Empire.

5. It is very difficult for pan-headed players to understand that by ravaging and attacking the weakened fragments of the Empire, they are helping the nomads in their expansion, and then they are surprised-Oh, MY GOD! HOW IS IT!? О_о

6. Swadia was generally destroyed in 90 percent of cases, even without the participation of the player, although according to lor a strong state, just practically surrounded (Battania, by the way, is also surrounded on all sides, but something can not be said here about the curve balance) and what now?
etc

At least turns your head on sometimes.

 

[Apocal]

1. Work on the balance is underway, nomads will have their speed bonus reduced.

5. It is very difficult for pan-headed players to understand that by ravaging and attacking the weakened fragments of the Empire, they are helping the nomads in their expansion, and then they are surprised-Oh, MY GOD! HOW IS IT!? О_о

6. Swadia was generally destroyed in 90 percent of cases, even without the participation of the player, although according to lor a strong state, just practically surrounded (Battania, by the way, is also surrounded on all sides, but something can not be said here about the curve balance) and what now?

1. Just to be totally accurate, every faction will have the Cavalry bonus nerfed from a 60% bonus down to a 40% bonus. All non-Khuzait cultures will get more cavalry in their party templates. But the Khuzait culture bonus (10% of the Cavalry bonus) is staying.

5. Yes, this is a factor that doesn't come up often enough since people most interested and active in snowballing discussions use tests without player intervention to measure snowballing and look at proposed changes. It is probable that players contribute whenever they spend time fighting factions other than the top dog.

6. Just because something was ****ed up in Warband doesn't mean we should leave it ****ed up in Bannerlord.

 

[geala]

I would introduce a rule that parties walk at the speed of the slowest element, make caravans all cavalry, and manage extra speed boni by Scout and Leadership perks. I'm curious what the -20% cavalry speed bonus will bring as effects.

 

[Zwade]

Khuzaits always come with the doomstacks. They have multiple 900+ armies come at me all the time. Our Aserai empire outnumber them in clans, towns, "casualties inflicted", and troop strength(on diplomacy tab). Yet we never muster an army over 600, and only one at that. Our army rides up with "defending xyz" as their goal, dance around for a while, eventually get caught and slaughtered.
The khuzaits really are a problem for balance. They need a cultural debuff to sieging or something. I can see them getting all the mobility, but they should get a penalty to sieges.

 

[Grizvill08]

in my campaign they got 4 towns from nother empire and southern empire but they stopd when they reashed aragon in the north of the empire because the towns began to rebel and that gave time for the impirels to counter atacke now the khuzaits only have 2 towns in the empire this happd over 2 years it does not take 3 months

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

I would really know what will happen to a campaign when you join Empire , Sturgia or Aserai and fight agains Khuzait.

Are they still snowballing or is it then balanced?
Imo there has to be a faction which is stronger than others.

Like Total War Warhammer has the Chaos which can snowball in lategame so BL need one like khuzait

If you join a faction and fight them the problem is: you faction gets a big ego and makes even more wars, basically replacing any lost hostility from beating down some khuzaits by attacking the other empires/sturgia exct themselves , making them all weaker. Of course the Khuzait still bounce back easier so it's even less effective. Even if you ignore other wars and focus on khuzait it's still hard to really stop them from expanding and they will just peace out at some point and attack the other factions that your faction has been weakening....

Fighting them as a lone clan can be effective, however it's really annoying to do so when you're lower tier clan (and you can't raise leadership) and later in the game they've gotten bigger already, so again it's more annoying. By annoying I mean you have to abuse ranged fire and retreats to beat them with a small party. To be fair, you can beat smaller or weekend parties without retreating , but sooner or later you'll face down 100+ horse archers and need to get sneaky if you want to take them off the map. As a big clan you can handle them, but they will raid all you fiefs and you wont be able to stop them all.

 

[sirano]

Seriously im getting god damn tired of this snowball bull****. Rework their freaking map movement speed perk for christ sake, Khuzait needs to be balanced so that the other AI can fight them (i dont want ANY cuck boy replying to this thread with their personal idea on how to win vs khuzait as a player, no one cares, it has NOTHING to do with this thread, this thread is about AI vs AI). I'm tired of having to f****g restart campains hoping that the next one will not get snowballed by god damn Khuzait. Its been so many months and this stupid ass problem has been ruining my game experience since day one.
Why the **** doesnt Aserai ever declare war on them ?
Why the **** do they win every siege
Why the **** do they have a perk that makes them unreachable by other AI on the world map
Why the **** do they win every and any encounter with other AI.
Why the **** are they so well positioned on the map making armies starve to death before even reaching them.
Why the **** do all my lords vote against declaring war to them
Why the **** does Southern Empire and Sturgia still suck ass vs them ?

Bring the god damn nerf hammer upon these stupid ass Khuzait already, i think its pretty clear im getting sick and tired of this ****.

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ibb.co

agree they are so annoying almost no one can catch them on the map and they can catch lords with 10 20 men (lords rebuilding there army's) making enemy factions stay weak, and when they declare war there lords go deep in enemy territory hunting other lords, yet other factions rarely venture inside enemy lands. there ai seems way smarter than other ai dont know if thats a thing but they act much smarter than other factions in wars .even against player u do struggle a bit against there 2 wave tactic (tons of horse archers hitting u wile there main force advance)