Limiting high tier troops to reflect medieval reality

[HalfMetalJacket]

Agree. I have always disliked the fact that with the price of a single high tier armor from the shop can instead buy you an entire army of elite troops because of the low recruitment, upgrade and upkeep costs.

I like how CK3 has really expensive mercenary armies that you can't maintain forever, and levies which slowly make your vassals angry at you if you have them raised too long. Isn't it unrealistic to have massive armies just walking about in peacetime in bannerlord? It should be more expensive, and the game needs more money sinks so it would serve that aswell.

There should be some system for needing to own the armor to be able to upgrade the unit, like the horses are for the high tier knights. And then the armor would return to you if the soldier dies.

Yep. Troops should be the money sink, not equipment.

And before anyone gets on my case, I'm not resigned to the fact that its up to modders to fix the game. Some of us may not like the current way of things, but it is part of the quintessential M&B experience. At this point of EA, its too late to change things.

 

[Apocal]

Yep. Troops should be the money sink, not equipment.

The problem is how to make the AI not fall flat on its face when troops are a massive expense. People already complain that fiefs can't pay for the garrison and lords still sometimes go broke in peacetime, without loot to supplement their income.

 

[hieronymos2]

Agree. I have always disliked the fact that with the price of a single high tier armor from the shop can instead buy you an entire army of elite troops because of the low recruitment, upgrade and upkeep costs.

I like how CK3 has really expensive mercenary armies that you can't maintain forever, and levies which slowly make your vassals angry at you if you have them raised too long. Isn't it unrealistic to have massive armies just walking about in peacetime in bannerlord? It should be more expensive, and the game needs more money sinks so it would serve that aswell.

Completely agree with both points.

The cost of levelling--especially for T5/6/7 and their expensive gear--will need to look something more like that in Viking Conquest, where it was the single largest player expense, bar none. Upping elite tier levelling costs will also by default extend the middle part of the game arc where the player is a merc, as battle loot is pretty much the only way to generate the capital needed to build up a large force of elites.

But upkeep of the Player army--which for me is pretty close to all elites when I choose to declare war on a target faction and start a kingdom--is basically a force of Condottieri, elite mercs, whose upkeep is provided during war by contracts and signing bonuses. And during the hopefully short periods of peace, by business investments.

The armies of feudal levies the AI so regularly employs would indeed be sharply limited by proximity to harvest; and in any case degrade relations between vassals-->lords, and when abused result in high desertion rates (a concept not yet modeled in Bannerlord).

I like to think of Calradia like the Carthaginian empire, where feudal conscripts & household elites mixed with veteran mercenary troops--who would violently revolt when not paid..

 

[hieronymos2]

lords still sometimes go broke in peacetime, without loot to supplement their income

Which is at it should be...Until the Devs program some sort of cogent post-war demobilization order. Like, where lords immediately disband any non-elite of lvl2 or 1 to bring upkeep in line with income.

 

[HalfMetalJacket]

The problem is how to make the AI not fall flat on its face when troops are a massive expense. People already complain that fiefs can't pay for the garrison and lords still sometimes go broke in peacetime, without loot to supplement their income.

Some programming or something could be done I guess. I don't know the in and outs of AI lords well, but don't they tend to over recruit too? And don't they have a habit of starving them out?

Stewardship levels could help reduce the costs, and since AI lords tend to have levels in that, I think that could help negate AI stupidity. But yeah, some modification to AI behaviour would be necessary as well.

 

[hieronymos2]

ome programming or something could be done I guess

As far as I can tell, like in Warband mods, the AI cheats like hell when it comes to spawning lord parties, their levelling, recruitment and upkeep. In 1.5.4 they also seem to starve a lot less than in 1.5.3

But some scripting is definitely needed to help lords transition economically from war to peacetime force levels to avoid going bust when the presumptive war taxes are nixed.

 

[Twezie]

As far as I can tell, like in Warband mods, the AI cheats like hell when it comes to spawning lord parties, their levelling, recruitment and upkeep. In 1.5.4 they also seem to starve a lot less than in 1.5.3

Yes, I suppose the end result is often that the AI is lacking. I really looked forward to the claims in the dev blogs about the 'non cheating' AI, but I guess with this sort of complex game it is simply not possible. It really turned me off Total War games when if you put difficulty level up, the AI just cheats more money, and even though I can beat them, it feels unfair and a waste of my time.

 

[Earth Dragon]

Where are these mythical T7 troops I see people mention? Or did the entire system change where present is not T1 versus nothing at all?

 

[Apocal]

Which is at it should be...Until the Devs program some sort of cogent post-war demobilization order. Like, where lords immediately disband any non-elite of lvl2 or 1 to bring upkeep in line with income.

It probably has to be the high-tier troops going away first and foremost. You can keep a party filled for less than a 300 day using low- and mid-tier troops but that's something like 25-30 high-tier dudes.

As far as I can tell, like in Warband mods, the AI cheats like hell when it comes to spawning lord parties, their levelling, recruitment and upkeep. In 1.5.4 they also seem to starve a lot less than in 1.5.3

They get, at most, 19 troops on spawn, two extra recruiting slots (like playing on Very Easy recruitment) and a mild bonus to daily XP gains for their troops. Their upkeep isn't reduced at all.

 

[hieronymos2]

They get, at most, 19 troops on spawn, two extra recruiting slots (like playing on Very Easy recruitment) and a mild bonus to daily XP gains for their troops. Their upkeep isn't reduced at all.

Then they're getting an income bonus. At one point Dionicos in my current 1.5.4 playthrough hold only Lageta, with tax income of around 1,700 (?); but supported five war parties totaling >600 troops (admittedly mostly low & medium tier infantry). Maybe I'm wrong about total force upkeep, as I didn't do a complete tally, but it seems they're getting financial buffs.

 

[hieronymos2]

It probably has to be the high-tier troops going away first and foremost

I guess I'm stuck on the concept of 'disbanding the fyrd' to send the common folk back to their farms and workshops. But disbanding at least some higher tier troops is of course necessary *sigh*. But considering the massive casualty rates in AI parties--with veterans wiped out and replaced with recruits on a regular basis--it doesn't seem there would be many elites or even veterans to demobilize.