Viking Culture Must Return Back (Please)

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Ambarad

Sergeant at Arms
Perhaps the worst thing of the game for me is the unification of the Nord and Vaegirs under Sturgia. Sturgia's only similarity with the Vikings is their flag. I love the Viking culture. My favorite kingdom in Warband has always been the Nords. But although Sturgia is called a "common ancestor", it is based entirely on Slavic culture. His soldiers, clothes, and weapons have nothing to do with Vikings or Scandinavian culture.

The game is still in early access. I think the Nord and Vaegir cultures should be completely separated. I cannot taste Sturgia. I'm sure there are people who think like me. This should be evaluated.

Please Taleworlds.
Thanks.
 
I believe nord in the lore "conquer" part of Sturgia and that make them shift towards a more Vaegir culture... oddly enough in the library you will see the culture "norse"
 
Perhaps the worst thing of the game for me is the unification of the Nord and Vaegirs under Sturgia. Sturgia's only similarity with the Vikings is their flag. I love the Viking culture. My favorite kingdom in Warband has always been the Nords. But although Sturgia is called a "common ancestor", it is based entirely on Slavic culture. His soldiers, clothes, and weapons have nothing to do with Vikings or Scandinavian culture.

The game is still in early access. I think the Nord and Vaegir cultures should be completely separated. I cannot taste Sturgia. I'm sure there are people who think like me. This should be evaluated.

Please Taleworlds.
Thanks.


This argument between vikingaboos and russians dates back to when sturgia was first announced. Both camps have insisted that sturgia is too much like the other. It's pretty ridiculous to complain about this, especially for you since the vikings are represented in some form in just about every game with swords and shields. For there to be yet another game with generic unispired viking ripoffs in it, would be the final straw for me, and I would probably start a pressure group for scandinavia to be wiped off the face of the earth.
 
I believe nord in the lore "conquer" part of Sturgia and that make them shift towards a more Vaegir culture... oddly enough in the library you will see the culture "norse"
Already when we look at real history, Sturgia seems more like Slavic northerners. This is because the Vikings reached the regions of Russia and Ukraine and the end of the Viking age. The Real Viking era that I'm talking about begins around 700 AD. Especially Norway and Denmark regions.


This argument between vikingaboos and russians dates back to when sturgia was first announced. Both camps have insisted that sturgia is too much like the other. It's pretty ridiculous to complain about this, especially for you since the vikings are represented in some form in just about every game with swords and shields. For there to be yet another game with generic unispired viking ripoffs in it, would be the final straw for me, and I would probably start a pressure group for scandinavia to be wiped off the face of the earth.
I understand you my friend. But I'm not Scandinavian or Russian Don't worry. I just like Viking culture :grin:
 
Personally I would prefer to see more eastern and southern cultures added, African, Indian, even Chinese or something. There are so many northern cultures in the game already. While I am also a fan of viking culture, I don't see the need to separate sturgia into two cultures when we already have Vlandians and Battanians as well.

Also, I prefer the Viking era that took place shortly after the fall of rome. I feel like in 700 bc vikings weren't up to much because they didn't want to draw Roman armies up north, they were definitely not ranging as far as in later eras. I really like the era covered in Viking Conquest taking place shorlty after the Saxon conquest when the Vikings were raiding coasts all up and down the british isles, france, Frisia, etc.
 
I prefer the Viking era that took place shortly after the fall of rome.
You mean the migration period, because the Viking period, generally, doesn't start until late 700's.
Also, 700bc? As in, before christ? xD

Personally I would prefer to see more eastern and southern cultures added, African, Indian, even Chinese or something. There are so many northern cultures in the game already. While I am also a fan of viking culture, I don't see the need to separate sturgia into two cultures when we already have Vlandians and Battanians as well.

M&B was always about approximations of europe and lands in close proximity, so it makes sense that cultures further away would be absent. IMO, it wouldn't make much sense to add them.
 
You mean the migration period, because the Viking period, generally, doesn't start until late 700's.
Also, 700bc? As in, before christ? xD



M&B was always about approximations of europe and lands in close proximity, so it makes sense that cultures further away would be absent. IMO, it wouldn't make much sense to add them.
I was replying to Ambarad's post. I swore it had said bc, which is why I was like wait, what? 700 AD is more the correct time period.

But also to that last bit. That is the box they created for themselves, but there is nothing that says they can't make it a little bigger. Either way, I am sure mods will eventually cover both Vikings and eastern cultures, if is isn't done in a DLC.
 
Vikings would be out of place with the time period the game is seeking to emulate.... then again, so is encountering a woman fighting from the front and leading every other army I encounter.

So f*** it, why not add vikings too ?‍♂️
 
Vikings would be out of place with the time period the game is seeking to emulate.... then again, so is encountering a woman fighting from the front and leading every other army I encounter.

So f*** it, why not add vikings too ?‍♂️
It wouldn't be any more out of the game's time period than it was in Warband, which takes place 200 years later and yet has very stereotypical vikings...
 
It wouldn't be any more out of the game's time period than it was in Warband, which takes place 200 years later and yet has very stereotypical vikings...

This is true, and personally I think that is fine. A lot of games take cultures from different time periods and put them on the map at the same time. Just look at civilization where you can play as cultures in ancient times that didn't originate until much later, and later play with ones that died out in ancient times as if they lived to the modern age. I think it should be about what is fun. You can do this and still keep items like armor, weapons, horses, etc. specific to the time period they actually were in, to keep a degree of historical and cultural accuracy and immersion. So historical accuracy, to a degree. And by that I mean it shouldn't be something that limits the games potential in any way, but rather a tool to create depth and immersion wherever possible.
 
It wouldn't be any more out of the game's time period than it was in Warband, which takes place 200 years later and yet has very stereotypical vikings...

You're right, I forgot the game is set in 1080, which is towards the end of the viking age. I always regress to thinking that the game is set in 500-600AD, because of the Byzantine focus.
 
Personally I would prefer to see more eastern and southern cultures added, African, Indian, even Chinese or something. There are so many northern cultures in the game already. While I am also a fan of viking culture, I don't see the need to separate sturgia into two cultures when we already have Vlandians and Battanians as well.
M&B was always about approximations of europe and lands in close proximity, so it makes sense that cultures further away would be absent. IMO, it wouldn't make much sense to add them.

I don't agree with this constraining viewpoint at all, but even if we assume the "epicentre" of calradia is literally in 11th century Paris, then Mali is closer and more relevant than the "khuzaits" or the "aserai". Early medieval thinkers and writers spent more time writing and thinking about sub-Saharan Africa than somewhere like Russia. Part of the impetus for colonialism in the 1400s was to find these mythical African kings who were supposed to liberate christendom. Medieval Europe had somewhat of an obsession with Africa which lasted from the 1100s (when the HRE started blackwashing saints and using sicilian africans as court officials) to the 1600s (when the slave trade and the advent of racism put a stop to it).


But trying to think in these historical terms is always going to be a bit pointless, because Calradia is based on pop culture stereotypes way more than actual history. I would prefer if they stopped pretending that the factions were based on anything that really existed because then you get silly threads like this.
 
Sea Raiders, Skoldabrotva and to some extent the Lake Rats are the Nords. Build an army out of those and roleplay your own Nordic invasion.

I think of Sturgia as super early Kievan Rus, back when Scandinavian influences are still strong. Hence round shields and Ulfhednar. I still think they could be more distinct and have more Kievan Rus esque helmets.
 
I don't agree with this constraining viewpoint at all, but even if we assume the "epicentre" of calradia is literally in 11th century Paris, then Mali is closer and more relevant than the "khuzaits" or the "aserai". Early medieval thinkers and writers spent more time writing and thinking about sub-Saharan Africa than somewhere like Russia. Part of the impetus for colonialism in the 1400s was to find these mythical African kings who were supposed to liberate christendom. Medieval Europe had somewhat of an obsession with Africa which lasted from the 1100s (when the HRE started blackwashing saints and using sicilian africans as court officials) to the 1600s (when the slave trade and the advent of racism put a stop to it).


But trying to think in these historical terms is always going to be a bit pointless, because Calradia is based on pop culture stereotypes way more than actual history. I would prefer if they stopped pretending that the factions were based on anything that really existed because then you get silly threads like this.

I fail to see how this supposed obsession with sub-saharan africa of a couple rulers, that they never got to actually interact with in any appreciable way makes them more relevant to quasi-europe than actual european cultures... Also, I fail to see how they could be more relevant to this quasi-Europe than Khuzaits, that are more or less based on mongols and other steppe people before like the Cumans that literally "invaded" Europe, as well as the Aserai, based loosely on northern african muslims that europeans literally went on crusades and a reconquista against.

If you wanted to flex your knowledge of a somewhat obscure fact, good for you, it's actually a pretty interesting idea. But is it relevant? Hardly.

Calradia is based on popculture, sure it is. But it is based on popculture that focuses on Europe and the closer areas like the Levant and northern africa, with which europeans had a lot of contact, both culturally and militarily. Does the Sub-saharan Mali count in that? Not really, I would say.
 
I fail to see how this supposed obsession with sub-saharan africa of a couple rulers, that they never got to actually interact with in any appreciable way makes them more relevant to quasi-europe than actual european cultures...

If you read the article (which you can't because universities charge you like £100 to read a single article), it's clear that it wasn't just a couple of rulers, it was a Europe-wide phenomenon, and the fact that the depictions are actually fairly realistic suggests that they also got to meet people from subsaharan Africa, although it's not clear how. Medieval people didn't have any modern concept of ethnicity so any black Africans they may have met would have just been called Muslim or "Moor" in the sources.

Europe was not some interconnected union. Just looking at a Mercator map you get a very poor understanding of how much different states or the people living in them would have interacted. In the early middle ages the King of the Franks would have had almost no formal contact with Finland, the Kievan Rus or even the Byzantines, while at the same time the pope was sending missionaries to China and there were Arab and Persian settlements around the China sea, and literal metric tonnes of mass produced Chinese pottery is found all over the Mediterranean and Africa, which was itself influenced by Persian art. In the early middle ages there was a similar amount of trade between Subsaharan Africa and Europe, mostly in gold and ivory and other precious imperishables.

My point is that the proximity between states in the middle ages doesn't determine how much contact they had. Trade and contact happens where there is safe passage and cordial relations, and for much of europe before 1300 this wasn't the case.

Calradia is based on popculture, sure it is. But it is based on popculture that focuses on Europe and the closer areas like the Levant and northern africa, with which europeans had a lot of contact, both culturally and militarily. Does the Sub-saharan Mali count in that? Not really, I would say.

Bannerlord has literal mongols in it, dressed like they're straight out of the Yuan dynasty in the 1300s, alongside "celts" who have more in common with Tolkienian dwarves than historical celts. It also has "preislamic arabs" who bear literally no resemblance whatsoever to any of the sources we have on preislamic armies. Even the architecture is all wrong. This is what I mean by trying to use history to make sense of what will "fit" in bannerlord, because it already doesn't fit anything close to a historical Europe. Nobody can decide which "year" this game is "set" in because I doubt even Armagan knows, and he's retconned it multiple times (early on in development it was the 400s AD but now it's all over the place).

I feel like the only reason people say factions outside the pop culture norm wouldn't "fit" is because of that very reason: that pop culture depictions of the middle ages never include anything outside europe except generic arabs and generic mongols, and it would feel weird and out of place to have anything else.
 
[...] alongside "celts" who have more in common with Tolkienian dwarves than historical celts [...]
sadrfrgwertghwerth.gif

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Being able to expand the carladic universe by adding new factions within a fantasy framework but at the same time "historically plausible"; I am sure that Taleworlds will adopt a conservative position betting on the very predictable dlc "Nord invasion" for the delight of the viking lovers.
 
Perhaps the worst thing of the game for me is the unification of the Nord and Vaegirs under Sturgia. Sturgia's only similarity with the Vikings is their flag. I love the Viking culture. My favorite kingdom in Warband has always been the Nords. But although Sturgia is called a "common ancestor", it is based entirely on Slavic culture. His soldiers, clothes, and weapons have nothing to do with Vikings or Scandinavian culture.

The game is still in early access. I think the Nord and Vaegir cultures should be completely separated. I cannot taste Sturgia. I'm sure there are people who think like me. This should be evaluated.

Please Taleworlds.
Thanks.

This timeline in Bannerlord is way back from Warband... The Nords still serving only as mercenary on Calradia. They're well and away from Calradia tugged in their own continent until their invasion of conquest begin.

We must wait to see how the Nords will be implemented on Bannerlord, maybe when they decide on the plan to inclued Navy (boats, etc)
 
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