A question for forum moderators

Users who are viewing this thread

markp27

Sergeant
Why does it take so long for the forum moderators to react to a thread which is pure baiting on both sides?


Is a prime example of this, 8 pages of near pure baiting and trolling on both sides. Yet the thread has been up since Saturday and was only ended on Wednesday by the moderators. Swifter action by the moderators would stop a lot of the trolling and baiting before it lasted that long. A simple warning early on and then closure would of made a lot more sense.

I worked for a gaming company myself and we had a 24 hr policy in which any thread with trolling was shut down within that period. This is why I ask the question of why it takes so long.
 
This is an example of a publicly-visible warning
You're absolutely right, it did take too long - usually we'd reply or lock troublesome threads before it becomes far too heated, but in this case, that didn't happen. Beforehand, there was only one moderator in the section (Brandis) and since this particular section has numerous reports, it was decided that he may need a helping hand, so both @Piconi and myself were added to the section (today). It isn't the fault of Brandis either, it's just that extra people were needed from other sections to ensure the large amount of reports from this section are handled.

As always, we appreciate the feedback and next time we'd be much faster and now with more moderators to help out in this particular area; we hope this doesn't happen again. On another note, the moderators are voluntary, meaning the majority of the moderators could potentially be busy with work or something of the similar sort, but reports are still usually handled within 24 hours (unless it's a larger issue).
 
Last edited:
You're absolutely right, it did take too long - usually we'd reply or lock troublesome threads before it becomes far too heated, but in this case, that didn't happen. Beforehand, there was only one moderator in the section (Brandis) and since this particular section has numerous reports, it was decided that he may need a helping hand, so both @Piconi and myself were added to the section (today). It isn't the fault of Brandis either, it's just that extra people were needed from other sections to ensure the large amount of reports from this section are handled.

As always, we appreciate the feedback and next time we'd be much faster and now with more moderators to help out in this particular area, we hope this doesn't happen again. On another note, the moderators are voluntary, meaning the majority of the moderators could potentially be busy with work or something of the similar sort, but reports are still usually handled within 24 hours.
Thank you guys, your work is much appreciated.
 
You're absolutely right, it did take too long - usually we'd reply or lock troublesome threads before it becomes far too heated, but in this case, that didn't happen. Beforehand, there was only one moderator in the section (Brandis) and since this particular section has numerous reports, it was decided that he may need a helping hand, so both @Piconi and myself were added to the section (today). It isn't the fault of Brandis either, it's just that extra people were needed from other sections to ensure the large amount of reports from this section are handled.

As always, we appreciate the feedback and next time we'd be much faster and now with more moderators to help out in this particular area; we hope this doesn't happen again. On another note, the moderators are voluntary, meaning the majority of the moderators could potentially be busy with work or something of the similar sort, but reports are still usually handled within 24 hours (unless it's a larger issue).
Thank you for the reply :smile:
 
Thanks for the reply. I was wondering why no one shut that thread down yet. I created what was probably one of the most heated single-player suggestion threads on the forums, and I had to do most the policing to keep it constructive myself for a long time unit it finally got noticed by moderators who could then clean up the anger and trolling on both sides. After that, they seemed to watch it daily during the time with people frequented it.

As someone who was a volunteer forum moderator for 2 other games, thanks to all the forum moderators here for their hard work keeping the peace. I know for most of you, it is not paid work but something you do out of passion for this game and the gaming community.
 
This comment was edgier than the entire sasuke's ark. All you'll see is a ban with that attitude friend.
I just want to add that mushashi's constant posts that are mostly insults towards the company and people who like this game are what originated the "flame" and he's baiting fights forever, so its a long history of flame bait and whatever, I apologise for overparticipating on it, but Mushashi hasn't listened to constructive criticism, I guess that is why over railed and everyone started participating in the flame, but if you read responses back to the people, they were bait as well, mostly covered by lies, so I don't wonder why these threads get covered with answers.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You're absolutely right, it did take too long - usually we'd reply or lock troublesome threads before it becomes far too heated, but in this case, that didn't happen. Beforehand, there was only one moderator in the section (Brandis) and since this particular section has numerous reports, it was decided that he may need a helping hand, so both @Piconi and myself were added to the section (today). It isn't the fault of Brandis either, it's just that extra people were needed from other sections to ensure the large amount of reports from this section are handled.

As always, we appreciate the feedback and next time we'd be much faster and now with more moderators to help out in this particular area; we hope this doesn't happen again. On another note, the moderators are voluntary, meaning the majority of the moderators could potentially be busy with work or something of the similar sort, but reports are still usually handled within 24 hours (unless it's a larger issue).
Thank you for paying more attention to General Discussion for BL. I want to say that I appreciate moderators but I feel like this is the most active board on the forum and yet has regularly received the least moderation. Thread after thread including those with ultimately pure topics looking to offer feedback and suggestions, or discuss balance, have descended into these flame wars. I have even seen people following and trolling each other from thread to thread.

While I admit to participating in the argumentation in the above thread a lot of it resulted from the lack of moderation to begin with. I felt like I had to go into that one and make my points to keep it in that thread and off the rest of the forum. I had watched the series of events unfold between many of these users prior to and after the creation of above thread. The trolling had migrated from this thread to other threads already in the first few posts, people trolling eachother - people just copying someone's comments and saying "wrong" and chasing each other all over the forum even to modding section to troll each other with this. It wasn't just the OP but it followed that OP wherever they went.

Metafa's thread a few weeks ago was even worse than this one. A mod noticed it and gave warning but took too long to return back and that thread descended into far worse chaos than even the thread above and still went on for three more days after that. People were even threatening eachother's lives and the like, way worse flaming than above and it was horrible. I just want to discuss the game without all this going on. Even just a friendly encouragement from time to time in threads and encouraging people to stay on topic will go a long way. I realize you and other mods weren't assigned to this forum yet but I just wanted to give my impression of what has been going on here. Thanks for all your efforts.

Lastly, I want to conclude that the source of this repeated issue is inherent to this forum. People upset or frustrated with the game or the devs regularly come on here to flame because there is nowhere else to go. A response is rarely given by TW and these threads always descend into the same chaos. If a dev or community manager isn't going to respond due to a pointed or insulting thread, why leave these pointed threads open at all? I feel like in other game forums I've been active in, someone gets back to the frustrated OP even if it is just a short answer or link to other information and then that thread is closed because there is no positive road it can go down. These threads will always descend into the same chaos and I don't understand why it is continually aloud to go on. Anyway, thanks for anything you can do.
 
Lastly, I want to conclude that the source of this repeated issue is inherent to this forum. People upset or frustrated with the game or the devs regularly come on here to flame because there is nowhere else to go. A response is rarely given by TW and these threads always descend into the same chaos. If a dev or community manager isn't going to respond due to a pointed or insulting thread, why leave these pointed threads open at all? I feel like in other game forums I've been active in, someone gets back to the frustrated OP even if it is just a short answer or link to other information and then that thread is closed because there is no positive road it can go down. These threads will always descend into the same chaos and I don't understand why it is continually aloud to go on. Anyway, thanks for anything you can do.
This part is the real issue. Many of us come on here to discuss our ideas too, mainly to get feedback on them from the community. However due to the amount of frustration in the community many of those threads get killed straight away as they plummet down the list and onto page 2 or 3 within 24 hrs. If we try bumping them we get points on our accounts for bumping. Yet trolls seem to get away with their actions which seems a bit insane.

To be honest with my memory nowadays I often forget about them or even when I get positive reactions forget to go onto single player suggestions and add it there. So that is my bad for part of it, but it is frustrating being sat around waiting for responses and to see the thread vanish so fast, as it is replaced by older threads which are nothing but people baiting each other.
 
Lastly, I want to conclude that the source of this repeated issue is inherent to this forum. People upset or frustrated with the game or the devs regularly come on here to flame because there is nowhere else to go. A response is rarely given by TW and these threads always descend into the same chaos. If a dev or community manager isn't going to respond due to a pointed or insulting thread, why leave these pointed threads open at all? I feel like in other game forums I've been active in, someone gets back to the frustrated OP even if it is just a short answer or link to other information and then that thread is closed because there is no positive road it can go down. These threads will always descend into the same chaos and I don't understand why it is continually aloud to go on. Anyway, thanks for anything you can do.

This is a really great point. When the game first released I used to spend a lot of time on this forum, and I would post feedback and have conversations with other players about what was good and what needed improving. Between the somewhat underwhelming feedback and the increase in toxicity I find myself wanting to do that less and less these days. And honestly it really is a vicious loop, people don't get answers and they get disgruntled, some of the disgruntled people decide to wage war, toxic threads keep being bumped which makes it less likely for devs to answer the threads that have constructive feedback/questions.

On a positive note though, some devs have taken the initiative to actively share their views and plans with us, honestly with more details than I have ever seen in any other EA game. It would be neat if this was a coordinated effort covering all areas of the game instead of individual initiatives on the restricted area that the dev is working on but... I guess we'll take it!
 
Do you mean this post? https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...se-have-perks-implemented.429462/post-9517513

Almost all of the reports which came out of that thread were for posts that were impolite at worst. Action was taken, and that post was it. Take a look at all of the subsequent replies in that thread and ask yourself if it worked. It is the consensus of the moderation team that punitive action is not always necessary, and--when it is reasonable to do so--an attempt should be made to deescalate first. This serves two purposes, both of which we believe are beneficial: it establishes boundaries regarding conduct for everyone to see, and allows the discussion to return to normal.

We've steadily shifted our policies toward transparency and greater visibility of inappropriate conduct, and away from direct warnings/mutes with only private explanations given. I'll issue a warning on @Fietta 's first post in this thread so you can see one of the tools we are now using to this effect. Warnings, thread locks, mutes, reply bans (which are thread-specific) and general bans (forum-wide) are all deterrents which we hang over users' heads to keep things in check, but we feel it's generally better received if we aren't openly threatening users with those. We can typically deescalate by simply being present and active in a thread which is getting heated, nudging it back on track openly or by merely participating in the discussion of the topic.

On that note, we prefer not to lock threads unless the discussion has clearly degraded to a point where it will likely not recover or if it's a pointless troll thread. We don't lock threads just because an answer is given to the OP, and probably never will. We have a long-established precedent on this forum that just because a correct answer is found doesn't mean it's the best answer, and a discussion about finding a better solution is completely valid.

The goal is to help our users understand that disagreements and arguments are acceptable, as long as they're topical and don't deviate into mud-slinging.

Furthermore I would think maybe some mods may need a refresher on what trolling and harassment and flaming are in general. If somebody is repeatedly posting about/to another user without any context/quot to actual bannerlord discussion and that user reports it as harassment, then it's harassment, that's what it is. It's unwanted attention that has nothing to do with Bannerlord.
Not all annoyances constitute harassment, which is literally a crime and is generally well-defined. Being called a fanboy or toxic in a handful of threads on an internet forum, even by the same user in all cases, doesn't qualify as actual harassment. It can be considered trolling, though, so report it if you feel so inclined. We may not act on a particular post which you have reported (in a case where a user has multiple offending posts), but we don't condone users tailing each other from one thread to the next just to troll.

Lastly, as much as some users (like Musashi, above) may like to paint themselves as martyrs for honest criticism, we don't have any policy for quashing negative feedback, and many of the moderators have posted negative feedback themselves.

Why did you ban Musashi he had valid points. Are you trying to silenece any criticism, whats the reason for his ban?
Because sending ****-you messages to moderators, calling them dip****s and pieces of ****, accusing them of constant bias, suppression, and abuse is a great way to make friends on the internet. We don't let users treat each other that way on this forum. Even a casual glance at the on-topic boards will clearly show you that we don't suppress negative feedback here.
 
Last edited:
What about when same person gets muted for same reason over and over again. At that point isn't that obvious that this user is not going to stop breaking the same rule after his/her mute ends.
 
This part is the real issue. Many of us come on here to discuss our ideas too, mainly to get feedback on them from the community. However due to the amount of frustration in the community many of those threads get killed straight away as they plummet down the list and onto page 2 or 3 within 24 hrs. If we try bumping them we get points on our accounts for bumping. Yet trolls seem to get away with their actions which seems a bit insane.

To be honest with my memory nowadays I often forget about them or even when I get positive reactions forget to go onto single player suggestions and add it there. So that is my bad for part of it, but it is frustrating being sat around waiting for responses and to see the thread vanish so fast, as it is replaced by older threads which are nothing but people baiting each other.
To me this is the biggest problem with the general discussion thread as usually in the suggestions thread you will get an answer usually a moderator that they frowarded it to the dev team i myself and many others can probably think of billions of ideas but most would either be impossible way too hard or would negatively affect other parts of the game as it would be stretched out thin


Now looking at you're usual post on general discussion it will either be a troll which is usually shut down pretty quickly a flame war where somebody makes a really stupid thread another person invalidates their points because they're stupid the person who made the thread with no more valid points doubles down on the same points usually after throwing insults like a hurricane throws trees cars if o were a volunteer moderator id be like heck nah and close it down but closing down without reason isn't a good idea now back on topic the person doubles down on the now invalidated points and throws insults the other person either leaves or fights fire with fire then sometimes somebody agrees with the stupid thread throws insults too and it escalates from that to unreadble


Now the smallest percent of general discussion like 3% probably ACTUAL ****ING CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICSM a messiah the op's of these threads are they make some actual points but always get overrun by the stupid threads unless a dev catches it early or a moderator then you will probably get some sort of answer from most likely callum from what i have seen myself
 
Do you mean this post? https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...se-have-perks-implemented.429462/post-9517513

Almost all of the reports which came out of that thread were for posts that were impolite at worst. Action was taken, and that post was it. Take a look at all of the subsequent replies in that thread and ask yourself if it worked. It is the consensus of the moderation team that punitive action is not always necessary, and--when it is reasonable to do so--an attempt should be made to deescalate first. This serves two purposes, both of which we believe are beneficial: it establishes boundaries regarding conduct for everyone to see, and allows the discussion to return to normal.

We've steadily shifted our policies toward transparency and greater visibility of inappropriate conduct, and away from direct warnings/mutes with only private explanations given. I'll issue a warning on @Fietta 's first post in this thread so you can see one of the tools we are now using to this effect. Warnings, thread locks, mutes, reply bans (which are thread-specific) and general bans (forum-wide) are all deterrents which we hang over users' heads to keep things in check, but we feel it's generally better received if we aren't openly threatening users with those. We can typically deescalate by simply being present and active in a thread which is getting heated, nudging it back on track openly or by merely participating in the discussion of the topic.

On that note, we prefer not to lock threads unless the discussion has clearly degraded to a point where it will likely not recover or if it's a pointless troll thread. We don't lock threads just because an answer is given to the OP, and probably never will. We have a long-established precedent on this forum that just because a correct answer is found doesn't mean it's the best answer, and a discussion about finding a better solution is completely valid.

The goal is to help our users understand that disagreements and arguments are acceptable, as long as they're topical and don't deviate into mud-slinging.

Not all annoyances constitute harassment, which is literally a crime and is generally well-defined. Being called a fanboy or toxic in a handful of threads on an internet forum, even by the same user in all cases, doesn't qualify as actual harassment. It can be considered trolling, though, so report it if you feel so inclined. We may not act on a particular post which you have reported (in a case where a user has multiple offending posts), but we don't condone users tailing each other from one thread to the next just to troll.

Lastly, as much as some users (like Musashi, above) may like to paint themselves as martyrs for honest criticism, we don't have any policy for quashing negative feedback, and many of the moderators have posted negative feedback themselves.

Because sending ****-you messages to moderators, calling them dip****s and pieces of ****, accusing them of constant bias, suppression, and abuse is a great way to make friends on the internet. We don't let users treat each other that way on this forum. Even a casual glance at the on-topic boards will clearly show you that we don't suppress negative feedback here.

Good post who makes sense.

You should have been the one to answer my email not that troll on [email protected] who intentionally antagonized me by belittling me.
He has 0 communication skills, how he is handling that customer-relations email is beyond me.
 
Ok didnt know that musashi was insulting others thats a good point, thanks for Clearing it up.

He actually made a post in this thread as well, baiting the moderator. Revverie quoted it but then it was removed minutes later. Few people probably saw it, but he quoted Fietta and then said something like "I guess you're looking for more work. I'll be seeing you :wink:" -Not very smart...
 
This is sad, constructive criticism and self moderation are now relics of an ancient past. Good work Fietta and Orion. It's a bummer you're having to deal with more ****ty users nowadays. At the same time, you volunteered for it so... haha sucks to be in your position :razz: :wink:

Perhaps I'm weird, but I've been raised on the principles of respect and humility. Treat others how you would want to be treated. Everyone is human so it happens to even the best of us to get heated, but when that happens, you apologize and try to not do it again. I know no one likes to be insulted, so why start the vicious cycle in the first place? Poison the fountain and poison shall gush forth from it. When you will drink from it, don't be surprised if you end up ill!
 
Last edited:
This is sad, constructive criticism and self moderation are now relics of an ancient past. Good work Fietta and Orion. It's a bummer you're having to deal with more ****ty users nowadays. At the same time, you volunteered for it so... haha sucks to be in your position :razz: :wink:

Perhaps I'm weird, but I've been raised on the principles of respect and humility. Treat others how you would want to be treated. Everyone is human so it happens to even the best of us to get heated, but when that happens, you apologize and try to not do it again. I know no one likes to be insulted, so why start the vicious cycle in the first place? Poison the fountain and poison shall gush forth from it. When you will drink from it, don't be surprised if you end up ill!
In this moment I've realize we may have had mistreated Mushashi, but it was an accumulation of past responses of his, in my opinion, I doubt he ever wanted to listen to others and he pushed his opinions (taleworlds being this bad company that stole money from the people) in whatever context he could, was it correct or not, so even if we could have approached the subject better as a community I really don't know how much he would have avoided his ban, in the end he found it himself despite our attitude. What I mean is that we could react better to these threads from now on, and try to make our points be understood in a more polite manner.
 
Back
Top Bottom