Crucial Mechanic to deal with block delay!

[OurGloriousLeader]

Yes yes yes you got it right!!!!
People on forum don't want to adapt to the new game. They want warband 2, and me too, but it is not warband 2.

In warband I often clicked block and attack almost in the same time to keep the pressure going while keeping the defense up, CAN'T DO IN BANNERLORD, GOTTA ADAPT.

In wardband, when facing an opponent that feints alot and proficiently, I clicked block repeatedly in the direction of opponent's feints and it increased the chance of blocking, at least that was what I did and I think a lot of people did too. Now, CANT DO THAT IN BANNERLORD TOO.

In BANNERLORD you have to stay away from clicking anything (block or attack) until the moment of the actual strike of your opponent and only then you have to click the right block direction ONCE.

This change requires more precise actions from players defensively and it makes offence more dangerous in general. ( Btw people who think that spam is bad for the gameplay are just not very good at the game, I am sorry, no offence, but it seems to be true)


P.S. Yet melee offence seems kinda weak in BANNERLORD (in skirmish) due to HEAVY ARMOR FROM THE START which is actually the worst thing with bannerlord MP. ARMORED MEN AND HORSES FROM THE START that is just not fun and not good for competitive balance.

Im so glad someone else noticed the adaption required in BANNERLORD !

Understand this in theory and I've been releasing LMB to block since beta, it does help, issue is that combat is inevitably going to be fast paced, especially once you introduce multiple enemies, and that having such a punishing blocking system introduces a lot more potential for unblockable hits in situations that it ultimately can't helped. This doesn't improve the combat but instead encourages people to avoid melee and makes 1vX even harder.

Taking this to its logical conclusion for duels as well, it becomes better to do nothing and be more passive, especially since quick attacks are a thing (tap LMB from inactive for fastest attack). So what was a trade of blows and looking for initiative in Warband, becomes an odd stand-off with each person doing the most basic attack possible waiting for a mistake, occasionally mixing in feints.

I just don't see the improvement. It's definitely possible to adapt to it, it just doesn't have a reward for me at the end for doing so.

 

[Mabons]

As OGL says, yeah you can adapt but it doesn’t really match the skill ceiling warband has, and as a result it will just get boring, if not already a little bit boring.

 

[Fietta]

Feint speed is also slightly faster than individual block of each feint, so you're constantly backing off in order to maximise the travel distance of the sword (the tip of the sword would take longer to hit you than the hilt) so you can block it. Yes, you can block and I'm pretty good at it, but that doesn't mean even I don't see the major flaws with the blocking system.

 

[Aprikosenmann]

As OGL says, yeah you can adapt but it doesn’t really match the skill ceiling warband has, and as a result it will just get boring, if not already a little bit boring.

I think its better that BLs skill ceiling is higher. That should be a motivation for Warband vets to train new mechanics.

until the moment of the actual strike of your opponent and only then you have to click the right block direction ONCE

That's not true. You can block feints like in warband if you never press LMB in between.

Are you calling blocking that is not responding to your input a good gameplay element?

Maybe you need to see it from a different direction. Block delay is basically a punishment for converting an attack into block. Like in warband when a heavy weapon hits your small 1h sword you had a long delay before you could attack. Or in your words: not respoding input. You basically had to double block alot.

And btw I don't like block delay.

 

[Fietta]

I think its better that BLs skill ceiling is higher. That should be a motivation for Warband vets to train new mechanics.


That's not true. You can block feints like in warband if you never press LMB in between.


Maybe you need to see it from a different direction. Block delay is basically a punishment for converting an attack into block. Like in warband when a heavy weapon hits your small 1h sword you had a long delay before you could attack. Or in your words: not respoding input. You basically had to double block alot.

And btw I don't like block delay.

Mabons means that the skill ceiling of Warband is higher I think. Warband's skill ceiling is far beyond that of BL.

 

[OurGloriousLeader]

I think its better that BLs skill ceiling is higher. That should be a motivation for Warband vets to train new mechanics.

That's not true. You can block feints like in warband if you never press LMB in between.

Removing control and options from the player does not necessarily raise the skill ceiling. Take your next sentence; you can block feints like in Warband as long as you don't do anything else. Is that good? More skilled? Hard to say really, obviously my perception is coloured by Warband but having played a fair amount of BLord I wouldn't say it's obviously so.

 

[jon01]

Like in warband when a heavy weapon hits your small 1h sword you had a long delay before you could attack. Or in your words: not respoding input. You basically had to double block alot.

That was a feature I hated in Warband whenever it happened.

If Bannerlord is based all around that kind of thing, no wonder so few people are enjoying its combat.

 

[LeRoux]

That was a feature I hated in Warband whenever it happened.

If Bannerlord is based all around that kind of thing, no wonder so few people are enjoying its combat.

I think this is a seperate mechanic. In Warband, heavy weapons could stun lighter weapons (obviously based on the "weight" stat) if you held your attack. If you timed it correctly you could do a hold then follow up with a normal attack and all your opponent could do was block.

That mechanic is also in Bannerlord, but it's not responsible for the stuff that's being discussed in this thread.

 

[Mabons]

I’m a bit confused by your posts @Aprikosenmann one minute block delays fine and we just need to deal with next minute your saying you don’t like it?
And @Fietta is correct, I meant that Warband has a higher skill ceiling, naturally it will.

 

[Younes]

Maybe you need to see it from a different direction. Block delay is basically a punishment for converting an attack into block. Like in warband when a heavy weapon hits your small 1h sword you had a long delay before you could attack. Or in your words: not respoding input. You basically had to double block alot.

And btw I don't like block delay.

Except right now the punishment you describe is way too massive in bannerlord. There is no issue with block delay as long as it feels right, but it doesn't in bannerlord. It just feels like the game is sluggish

 

[jon01]

heavy weapons could stun lighter weapons (obviously based on the "weight" stat) if you held your attack

The result of it feeling like your game suddenly stopped working was horrible, similar to Bannerlord's combat in general. I'm not sure if it was RNG-based (it felt like it), but even if it was a consistent mechanic, it was still an incredibly unfun feature to have to deal with, whenever it happened.

 

[Aprikosenmann]

I’m a bit confused by your posts @Aprikosenmann one minute block delays fine and we just need to deal with next minute your saying you don’t like it?
And @Fietta is correct, I meant that Warband has a higher skill ceiling, naturally it will.

Block delay is bad but we have to deal with it. I just don't like how players say that block delay is the reason for BLs failiure.
Just because I share my thoughts on how to adapt to block delay does not mean that I like it?

Block delay
Pro:
-it is something new
-increases skill cap (you have to consider more things than the mouse movement)

Cons:
-feels unsatisfying
-forces defensive/gambling playstile (forces defensive playstyle and to regain presseure you have to gamble spam him during his feints)
-punishment for doing the fist step in a 1v1
-experienced players can abuse it to kill beginners with late feints (yes the opposite of TWs intention)
-1v2 is harder

So is block delay a good feature? No. Does it ruin BL? No. Will they remove it? No. Will Aprikosenmann make the best out of it? Yes. Should we still demand a reduced/removed block delay? Yes.

 

[Younes]

Just moving on with **** isn't what we have done for the past year during the beta if u didn't notice aprik.

 

[Mabons]

It isn’t the sole reason for the failure of Bannerlord thus far but it’s one of them. It’s not new as pointed out many times before warband had it, just didn’t feel as awful as it does in Bannerlord.

Anyways I’m not a good enough warband or bannerlord player to discuss this, so I’m going to bow out of this thread

 

[OurGloriousLeader]

Warband did not have it. We're not discussing lag compensation 'block delay', we're discussing the variable block speeds from different stances and actions.

Warband had consistent blocking across the board regardless of weapon or action. There was a flat lag compensation delay, but that is absolutely not what people refer to when complaining about blocking, it's only confused the terminology.

 

[RCC_God]

I dunno it’s the reason bannerlords a failure for good players. It makes the game more frustrating and less skill based. I know at least 10 comp players who quit because of block delay being the main issue including myself

 

[Lord Rich]

The result of it feeling like your game suddenly stopped working was horrible, similar to Bannerlord's combat in general. I'm not sure if it was RNG-based (it felt like it), but even if it was a consistent mechanic, it was still an incredibly unfun feature to have to deal with, whenever it happened.

Stunning was an area that I thought should have been kept as it was a good mechanic but I thought could have done with additional animations/sounds to let the player know whats happening. Just a different animation showing the weapon/shield getting knocked away and a grunt would have done it. Unfortunately they have just messed things up unknowingly as they did with much of the rest of the game.

It wasn't RNG based either, it depends on relative weapon weights and requires a held attack. Hold attacks do increasing stun and damage up to a maximum at around 0.6 seconds and then fall off to a higher than initial level. If you learned the right timing for the war spear overhead stun for instance, you could stun block every shield in the game.

 

[Zoonanay]

Variable block delay isn't necessarily a deficit to gameplay, currently it's a hinderance to all aspects of melee, but I don't think that's due to its nature. If Warbanders can account for 6 different guys positioning, attack directions and timings, then I'm fairly certain they'd adapt to variable block delay if it wasn't overtuned.

Despite the community's dislike of the mechanic, I don't think we can make a justified opinion on its effictibility until we've seen it in a reduced state. I can see how it could legitimately add depth whilst giving new players something to work with when in 2v1 situations against a very experienced player.

If delay were reduced enough so instead of some attacks being impossible to block, a few blocks are improbable to make, I could see it breaking up prolonged blocking duels by bringing positioning and meta-game more to the forefront, but it would need some very fine balancing.

 

[Aprikosenmann]

I dunno it’s the reason bannerlords a failure for good players. It makes the game more frustrating and less skill based. I know at least 10 comp players who quit because of block delay being the main issue including myself

Honestly I think thats just an excuse. The lack of content causes the game to get unfun and then they just say "aah the block delay is too bad". If they remove block delay today most of those players would be gone again in a week. Because all you can do is play skirmish with exactly the same gear all day.

 

[RCC_God]

Honestly I think thats just an excuse. The lack of content causes the game to get unfun and then they just say "aah the block delay is too bad". If they remove block delay today most of those players would be gone again in a week. Because all you can do is play skirmish with exactly the same gear all day.

The combat to me is the core of the game as a duelist from warband. The combat has not satisfied me or the other duelists I know. I’ve had lengthy talks with Noill, an incredible duelist, F0 aka Adelade, and Sauron the black knight of why they hate the combat and why they left. To them it’s not the class system or crashes but the combat that matters