I'm afraid to give people advice at this point.

[TheWitchIzalith]

I have no opinion whatsoever on horse archers. *Sweats*

But seriously, spent over an hour the other day writing up a guide on getting the most out of your workshops and caravans after days of tweaking and learning, just to have the patch drop that nerfed both of them literally five minutes later.

It's ****ing aggravating, especially with so much stuff in the game still being actually broken.

That just seems silly on your part, to write an in-depth guide on a game that is going to be in EA for 11 months longer and expect it to stay the same.

Like Expecting a guide to work exactly the same as the Expansion set to come out in a year.

There are definitely things about Bannerlord that bother me, but really, writing a guide and expecting it to stay relevant (especially when they have had daily patches) just seems like your own fault.

I'd be worried if every single employee was working on the same problem. But the fact remains, that other glaring issues are not being addressed with the same zeal as the economy, or in such a timely manner.

They've stated numerous times that Devs work in different areas of the game, and don't really intermingle areas of expertise.

The Economy balance has nothing to do with the guy in charge of combat, Lord AI and other stuff I imagine. I don't know what categories they are all separated in, but Mexxxico has said that they are each focused on their own area.

Just means the Economy team is pushing stuff out faster than the others. Doesn't mean it isn't being worked on or looked into.

 

[Revenant342]

Add in the fact that any economic balancing on the supply side is completely pointless if you don't balance the demand side because the only thing consistently removing cash from the economy is your troops wages, and they're peanuts. Everything else is a one-time expense, so even if you nerf shop income down to three Denars a day you're still going to end up with infinite money once you bought everything you wanna buy, and increasing the price on single-purchase items just does the same thing, IE make it take way longer to get the stuff you want without actually addressing the real issue at all.

 

[Revenant342]

That just seems silly on your part, to write an in-depth guide on a game that is going to be in EA for 11 months longer and expect it to stay the same.

Like Expecting a guide to work exactly the same as the Expansion set to come out in a year.

There are definitely things about Bannerlord that bother me, but really, writing a guide and expecting it to stay relevant (especially when they have had daily patches) just seems like your own fault.

Well that's just asinine. If you aren't attempting to understand the game mechanics, how are you supposed to know if something's working properly?

 

[black_bulldog]

Don't tell anyone how much fun a horse archer only army is.

Nothing to see here TW just keep moving...

 

[TheWitchIzalith]

Well that's just asinine. If you aren't attempting to understand the game mechanics, how are you supposed to know if something's working properly?

Understanding mechanics and bug reporting, is different then making an in-depth how-to-play guide that is concrete.

By all means, write guides and figure stuff out. But as I said, to expect nothing to change in 11 months is basically writing a guide for an expansion that isn't out yet...

A basic broad brush guide can serve the same purpose, while still being subject to change and flexible.

IE. Trading. Get 2x Pack animals + X Cheap Item. Sell at A,B,C where price is usually better. Buy Item Y to take back to D,F,E and sell there. Repeat.

Furs, Sturgia. Buy between 30-65. Sell at Empire/ Aserai for 100+ (Preferably 120-150+).

Dates from Aserai buy for 5-20g. Sell basically everywhere else for 45-60+.

Quick. Subject to change, but basic premise holds. Didn't need to go super in depth.

 

[Revenant342]

It's aggravating when you spend several IRL hours doing stuff like follow NPCs around and watch what they do, notice something funky, then come post it on the forums just to hear "iT's EaRlY aCcEsS lMaO" from a pack of fanboys who don't want to hear anything that isn't "yes the game is perfect and has no flaws and anyone who says anything that isn't pure praise about this dumpster fire is a whiner and not someone actively trying to put the damned fire out."

 

[Nordmann]

It's aggravating when you spend several IRL hours doing stuff like follow NPCs around and watch what they do, notice something funky, then come post it on the forums just to hear "iT's EaRlY aCcEsS lMaO" from a pack of fanboys who don't want to hear anything that isn't "yes the game is perfect and has no flaws and anyone who says anything that isn't pure praise about this dumpster fire is a whiner and not someone actively trying to put the damned fire out."

Yes, I'm honestly sick of seeing that particular phrase being used whenever someone tries to raise legitimate criticism. I genuinely think less of someone when they use it.

 

[SmattlePattle]

Its frustrating when its people posting criticism in good faith. I'm a firm believer that criticism is what makes us succeed, when constructive. When I'm at work if my technique is ever less than 100% I want to be called out on it. I just don't want to be called names and be belittled.

Early Access is a Developer asking us to critique their product, because they want us to, because they want to make it the best product they can.

 

[Rafalongo]

I have no opinion whatsoever on horse archers. *Sweats*

But seriously, spent over an hour the other day writing up a guide on getting the most out of your workshops and caravans after days of tweaking and learning, just to have the patch drop that nerfed both of them literally five minutes later.

It's ****ing aggravating, especially with so much stuff in the game still being actually broken.

man, the game development can't stop because you decided to make a guide...

 

[Nikomakkos]

My experience of Taleworlds and their incredible game Mount & Blade: Warband was that mods like PBOD, Diplomacy or overhauls like Prophesy of Pendor really unlocked the potential of the game.

Taleworlds is incredible at creating an engine for simulated medieval combat but when it comes to filling out that foundational skeleton with meat and details for a fleshed out game they are not the best, or in any case some modders do it better.

I think many of the concerns being voiced, and perhaps the devs do take some of them too seriously and their reaction is over the top, will be addressed with mods and that the single player campaign and the full potential awesomeness of this game won't be fully realized but with mods. As is the case with many other games, like The Elder Scrolls for example.

EDIT: Or let's say that the game needs to be "topped off" with mods to really make it shine. But we will see, there remains a lot of time still before the full release.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

To make animal shooter and shooter in general feel less OP we need a functional trainer skill that work X amount of same troop.... like trainer in warband... that would fix the AI having blobs of recruits that can't catch bandits or even rank up. Be useful for the player too.
I mean, shooters should be OP whenever there's a distance between them and the enemy and the enemy has less shooters. If they weren't nobody would use them

 

[Mount On Blade]

That just seems silly on your part, to write an in-depth guide on a game that is going to be in EA for 11 months longer and expect it to stay the same.

Like Expecting a guide to work exactly the same as the Expansion set to come out in a year.

There are definitely things about Bannerlord that bother me, but really, writing a guide and expecting it to stay relevant (especially when they have had daily patches) just seems like your own fault.




They've stated numerous times that Devs work in different areas of the game, and don't really intermingle areas of expertise.

The Economy balance has nothing to do with the guy in charge of combat, Lord AI and other stuff I imagine. I don't know what categories they are all separated in, but Mexxxico has said that they are each focused on their own area.

Just means the Economy team is pushing stuff out faster than the others. Doesn't mean it isn't being worked on or looked into.

Why can't people have the same common sense as you

 

[Neodymus]

It's aggravating when you spend several IRL hours doing stuff like follow NPCs around and watch what they do, notice something funky, then come post it on the forums just to hear "iT's EaRlY aCcEsS lMaO" from a pack of fanboys who don't want to hear anything that isn't "yes the game is perfect and has no flaws and anyone who says anything that isn't pure praise about this dumpster fire is a whiner and not someone actively trying to put the damned fire out."

Could you link the post where you posted that funky thing after following NPCs around for hours?
I indeed like to read these things to get more understanding of the underlying programming model, even if they are bound to change fast.

And while I agree that EA shouldnt be used to dismiss criticism as some people do it, it just seems that just as many people dont know how to criticise or think that "Muh, I dont like x. Gonna refund, bye." is useful feedback to the developers.
And it seems that both sides are getting tired of each other these days, start to get triggered at each other very easily and blow each others statements way out of proportion. It is kinda funny to watch tbh.

 

[drallim33]

The more I think about it, the more of a perfect analogy that is really. Lord are running around with 90+ peasants in their armies, which they shouldn't be. Those peasants get slaughtered by horse archers, so what do we do? Nerf horse archers, of course!

Then when they finally get around to fixing the real problem way down the road they either have to re-balance the horse archers or just leave max-tiered horse archers balanced against full peasant armies so nobody ever uses them again.

This is exactly what's going to happen if the last couple of weeks are anything to go by. Watch what player does, then nerf that thing instead of fixing the underlying cause.

At this point, I'm expecting TW to nerf archers into the ground simply because everyone is *****ing about them, when in reality, the problem with archers over-performing is that every other unit type isn't doing their job properly. Cavalry charges have little to no impact on an enemy formation and infantry is a complete joke, especially when it comes to fighting in formation and using their shields.

Heavily armored troop in formation should be extremely deadly, a big mass of armor behind shields that is bristling with long spears, peasants should not even be able to get within 10 feet. Right now any hobo can just walk right up and bop elite troops on the head with a rubber mallet.

Problem is you can't really implement that in the current state because the troops are all mixed together in a disorganised rabble. They have categories for heavy infantry and so forth but unused at the moment. You can manually assign troops to groups yourself but it's not saved so it's useless atm. Well you can't make a good formation when every dude has different gear and skills.

Also troops do not attack when in formation for some reason. They just stand there. The group defending the main gate in a siege just stands there patiently and gets slaughtered and doesn't fight back.

It's archers that are the problem though, of course!

 

[eternalflame]

It's archers that are the problem though, of course!

Of course. How dare they fight back?

 

[Koshkasa]

I seriously feel at this point that if any sort of tip or strategy becomes popular, it gets nerfed into the ground, even if it was only marginally more effective than other methods.

Since a fair share of these tips and strategies are "how to make 1mil in four days", them being nerfed is kinda the norm. I guess TW envisions Bannerlord as the "rise of the underdog" kinda story, so strategies on how to cheese the economy or the combat AI don't sit well in their head. Thank god that's true

 

[Koshkasa]

It's aggravating when you spend several IRL hours doing stuff like follow NPCs around and watch what they do, notice something funky, then come post it on the forums just to hear "iT's EaRlY aCcEsS lMaO" from a pack of fanboys who don't want to hear anything that isn't "yes the game is perfect and has no flaws and anyone who says anything that isn't pure praise about this dumpster fire is a whiner and not someone actively trying to put the damned fire out."

"It's Early Access" has nothing to do with "the game is perfect as is". At least get your internet sword sharpened up if you're gonna swing it at someone.

The reaction you get will depend on whether you're claiming developers' incompetence or note that the product is currently incomplete. The latter is objectively true, the "incompetence" part is objectively false.

From the way you've chosen to present your point I can pretty accurately predict which of the aforementioned two ways you'd stick to