Clerics

Besides the first 3 options of: Good, Neutral, Evil patrons, and the patron weapons, do they have different abilities?

I know that if fire is one of the details of the patron, you get a fireball and flame burst ability, but what about the rest of the patrons? I chose a neutral deity of law (I believe the detail of the patron is that he watches #creep), but there is nothing special about his patron abilities. Are there other unique abilities from patron qualities besides fire?

Zmeister200 said:

Besides the first 3 options of: Good, Neutral, Evil patrons, and the patron weapons, do they have different abilities?

I know that if fire is one of the details of the patron, you get a fireball and flame burst ability, but what about the rest of the patrons? I chose a neutral deity of law (I believe the detail of the patron is that he watches #creep), but there is nothing special about his patron abilities. Are there other unique abilities from patron qualities besides fire?

Click to expand...

This is a more difficult to track down question than you thought it was, so here's what I find:
All of this was Guspav's doing, so don't complain at me for any of these:

Cleric spells:
Turn Undead  - all, but long reuse timer
Lay Hands - paladin only, honor 3+;  more honor heals more.
Aura Bravery - paladin only, faith 3+
Aura Divine Might - paladin only, fatih 4+
Aura Quickness - paladin only faith 5+
Aura Regen - paladin only faith 5+

Heal  - all including paladin EXCEPT cleric type 13

Harm  not paladin, not cleric type 13  neutral or evil align only
Bless  not cleric type 13
Curse not paladin not cleric 13

Bravery    not paladin
Terror    not paladin
Flame strike  all with faith 5+
Spirit Hammer - all incl. paladin faith 2+
  quietly unequips anything that was in weapons slot 4 by the way
  the spirit hammer is replaced by deity specific replacement if you aren't a generic cleric  (bought holy symbol and grew some faith after first class choice instead of at character creation)

Dispel Magic for clerics: all incl. paladin  faith 5+

Fire Storm - not Paladin    Faith 12+  <-- seems like a mistake, set to 8 in M-2
Positive Energy burst - not cleric type 13; faith 5+  --> set to 4+ in M-2
Negative Energy Burst  not paladin, not good align, not cleric type 13

Tyranny - cleric type 2  faith 3+
Martyrdom - cleric type 10 faith 3+
Cauterize - cleric type 13 only  and fath 3+
cleric Fireball - type 13 only and faith 6+
fire burst - type 13 only and faith 3+

protection from fire - cleric type 13 and skill 1
protection from cold - cleric type 13 and skill 1
    these overwrite dynamic resists for one specific attack type for the rest of the battle unless player changes gear by access baggage
    in which case it is flushed and the dynamic resist gets recalculated and overwrites the player

=======
  good deity    "$deity_alignment",1
neutral deity  "$deity_alignment",2
evil deity        "$deity_alignment",3

Akadi "$pc_cleric_type",1
Bane "$pc_cleric_type",2
Chauntea "$pc_cleric_type",3
Corellon "$pc_cleric_type",4
Cyric "$pc_cleric_type",5
Eilistraee "$pc_cleric_type",6
Grumbar "$pc_cleric_type",7
Gruumsh "$pc_cleric_type",8
Helm "$pc_cleric_type",9
Hoar "$pc_cleric_type",25
Ilmater "$pc_cleric_type",10
Istishia "$pc_cleric_type",11
Kelemvor "$pc_cleric_type",12
Kossuth "$pc_cleric_type",13
Lathander"$pc_cleric_type",14
Lolth "$pc_cleric_type",15
Moradin "$pc_cleric_type",16
Mystra "$pc_cleric_type",17
Selune "$pc_cleric_type",18
Shar "$pc_cleric_type",19
Talona "$pc_cleric_type",20
Talos "$pc_cleric_type",21
Tempus "$pc_cleric_type",22
Torm "$pc_cleric_type",23
Umberlee"$pc_cleric_type",24
======

Thank you this helps a lot!

Wow!

Thanks so much for this!!
I've been wondering why my paladins are all so useless! I keep restarting before they "get religion"!

How Positive/Negative Energy Bursts works? My Paladin heals herself and nightmare completely with 1 PEB, but my barb/lich can only heal 1/5 of his HP with NEB and damage himself for 1/5 with PEB.
P.S. It will be nice if harm can heal undead chars.

Totulhu said:

How Positive/Negative Energy Bursts works? My Paladin heals herself and nightmare completely with 1 PEB, but my barb/lich can only heal 1/5 of his HP with NEB and damage himself for 1/5 with PEB.
P.S. It will be nice if harm can heal undead chars.

Click to expand...

  alignment is everything.  Your lich is evil align so the power of positive energy burst is greatly diminished for lich or evil clerics.
I've defined negative energy as not useful for healing, and instead of restoring you to your unnatural self its attempting to wither you into rejoining the void where your power came from.  Its thus ideal for harm but not useful for help.  Paladin is close to positive and thus positive is boosted, but harms the paladin is so far from its not even a spell book option.

  It may be nice but I wont change the rules of the universe without a much better reason.  When it fits what I want, a change is made.  There is no other means to get a change into the game that I won't crock because I was dragged into it rather than consented.  In this case, negative is not going to be your friend, but it is a power you use against others.  There is a great difference between alignments and I refuse to water it down as requested.  FYI.

gsanders said:

Totulhu said:

How Positive/Negative Energy Bursts works? My Paladin heals herself and nightmare completely with 1 PEB, but my barb/lich can only heal 1/5 of his HP with NEB and damage himself for 1/5 with PEB.
P.S. It will be nice if harm can heal undead chars.

Click to expand...

  alignment is everything.  Your lich is evil align so the power of positive energy burst is greatly diminished for lich or evil clerics.
I've defined negative energy as not useful for healing, and instead of restoring you to your unnatural self its attempting to wither you into rejoining the void where your power came from.  Its thus ideal for harm but not useful for help.  Paladin is close to positive and thus positive is boosted, but harms the paladin is so far from its not even a spell book option.

  It may be nice but I wont change the rules of the universe without a much better reason.  When it fits what I want, a change is made.  There is no other means to get a change into the game that I won't crock because I was dragged into it rather than consented.  In this case, negative is not going to be your friend, but it is a power you use against others.  There is a great difference between alignments and I refuse to water it down as requested.  FYI.

Click to expand...

Thanks for reply, but there are some problems then, that i encountered, as lich at least:
- harm do nothing
- positive/negative energy burst do nothing to enemy undead/living troops
- turn undead kills enemy undead and do nothing to yours

And as paladin there seems to be no Aura of Bravery and Bless in book, but they listed in yours previous post

Totulhu said:

And as paladin there seems to be no Aura of Bravery and Bless in book, but they listed in yours previous post

Click to expand...

aura of bravery is faith skill dependent.  It provides a fear shield.

Bless I have not seen as a paladin, but there is a divine might which is like a bless but more powerful.
I expect bless is cleric only.

gsanders said:

Totulhu said:

And as paladin there seems to be no Aura of Bravery and Bless in book, but they listed in yours previous post

Click to expand...

aura of bravery is faith skill dependent.  It provides a fear shield.

Bless I have not seen as a paladin, but there is a divine might which is like a bless but more powerful.
I expect bless is cleric only.

Click to expand...

Sry, can't understand. It's said it's 3+ faith, but i have 7 and all other auras.

Totulhu said:

Sry, can't understand. It's said it's 3+ faith, but i have 7 and all other auras.

Spoiler

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fine we'll sort through this some other day.  And right now I am VERY sick.  So give it a break. Maybe you're perfectly right, but I dont care.
We'll sort it out later next week.

gsanders said:

Totulhu said:

Sry, can't understand. It's said it's 3+ faith, but i have 7 and all other auras.

Spoiler

Click to expand...

fine we'll sort through this some other day.  You're not going to get a happy answer out of me when I'm sick.  And right now I am VERY sick.  So give it a break. Maybe you're perfectly right, but I dont care.
When I feel better you can grind your cigar on me.  You're right but I have no strength to do anything about it, so give it a rest.

Click to expand...

Don't worry about it. I don't know why you even care that much about it, when you ill.
And i understand now how this whole thing works. Even if i'm lich, because i didn's choose cleric at start - my cleric aligment is neutral.
So i have, what i have, bad negative energy burst, lol.
P.S. Healer's ring works wonders on lich for some reason.

Hey, very new to the forums, this will be my first post in fact. If this question is better directed elsewhere or already answered elsewhere I apologize as I know that the modding crew is very busy and probably fairly exhausted from the aforementioned issues occurring among posters. I just recently installed the latest patch for v150 versions and I noticed that clerics of Bane and Illmater (or however its spelled) no longer have their special cleric abilities (tyranny and martyrdom) while clerics of Kossuth still have access to all of their special abilities (fire burst cauterize fireball etc). Is this by design or a bug? I know in the first 2018 version I got some strange error message "mesh not found" or something like that when I tried to use the tyranny spell and there was no icon in the book for the ability. I was also wondering if the other gods will ever be getting special abilities, if not I feel like it would make the most sense to get rid of them as they don't add anything to the game and there is no incentive to choose them when Kossuth Bane and Illmater greatly outclass them purely on the basis of having one extra ability.

Zida The Snail said:

Hey, very new to the forums, this will be my first post in fact. If this question is better directed elsewhere or already answered elsewhere I apologize as I know that the modding crew is very busy and probably fairly exhausted from the aforementioned issues occurring among posters. I just recently installed the latest patch for v150 versions and I noticed that clerics of Bane and Illmater (or however its spelled) no longer have their special cleric abilities (tyranny and martyrdom) while clerics of Kossuth still have access to all of their special abilities (fire burst cauterize fireball etc). Is this by design or a bug? I know in the first 2018 version I got some strange error message "mesh not found" or something like that when I tried to use the tyranny spell and there was no icon in the book for the ability. I was also wondering if the other gods will ever be getting special abilities, if not I feel like it would make the most sense to get rid of them as they don't add anything to the game and there is no incentive to choose them when Kossuth Bane and Illmater greatly outclass them purely on the basis of having one extra ability.

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  It's one of these things with running out of energy in rebuilding the mod.  There's also incomplete white bolt mage spell.
Tyranny was in fact not complete when sent to me last year; most spells that aren't working now had some problem but Tyranny was never finished in the first place.

  Guspav was kind of bogged down doing clerics and rogues when I received the mod and the fire cleric was the first one he really 'finished".  I've since tweaked spells to respond to alignment but not been interested in making specific new spells or having each spell act uniquely only for one deity.  In my opinion, if I have to waste more time like was wasted on Necromancers, I should throw away the mod and start over.  I was not interested in losing hundreds of man hours without forward progress on my systems, when the mod has sort of a tug of war over ownership in the public sector.  I think it did improve tremendously while on my watch, but the glory of the individual gods belongs to Guspav.  I would like to see other classes get some attention besides Necromancer, so its a fair question, but right now the whole mod needs a rebuild, again.

  I kind of thought it was good enough to play but its a niche mod and users feel it really needs more.  My family feels it really needs less, and are jealous of my time.  My work feels I should go find a new job, but that's nothing new. I won't promise any repairs at all at this point, but I can sympathize that everyone not actually doing the work has plenty of advice to give on how I should spend my next few hundred hours giving them free service.  I mean, not to sound ungrateful or anything...

  As to the last line, I think the latest change introduced in v156 series really DID add something to good gods, even if you could easily go around it by packing your party with NPC clerics, such as those captured from Sacrilegious  Fundamentalists somewhere between Yalen and Suno: Resurrection, which works better if you are good aligned, which is weakest with the evil aligned gods.  Resurrection is subtle and not at all guaranteed, but over time can change your drain of experienced cadre (tiers 4+).  I mention that evils could simply capture many fundamentalists, talk to them in captivity to get some to join, especially the neutral "clerics" that don't have a faction, and pretty soon your party is resurrecting.  Of course, that's not a capability for the "learner" v150 series, which is the swiss army knife, all too easy to hack version.  v156 asks you to pick 2 classes and stick to them, and will definitely mess with you if you try to get clever with Morgh's savegame editor.

  Probably I will make a new series, losing features that weren't desired for Warsword Conquest, as a test of future inter-mod code library.  That's always been my focus.  The features were mostly to show how a little different approach in coding can help the mod do new tricks, and mostly that was a success but there are still things people find worth complaining about and its probably why I have not been green lighted to go back and fix my mistakes elsewhere.  this and I naturally am hard to get along with.  I do like working here, when I'm not hassled, but I accept the code is less than what people expect and I'm happy they think I'm superman and snap my fingers to kick down a dozen new things instantly. I kind of remember burning > 1000 hours this last 9 months and at least 500 hours on JUST the stuffported here in previous years, so I think it took longer and was more stressful than I got credit for.  Anyway I talk to much and it always starts fights, so I'll say ....  "we'll see"  TM

Totally understandable, in no way do I expect any snaps of the finger instant changes, I was more just curious about what future versions (as in years from now) of Phantasy were to look like for my favorite class xD. I do love the flame god spec (although I do think its a little faceroll with mounted flame burst spam against infantry based armies) and really appreciate all of the other recent changes for the mod. I don't mean to sound ungrateful and would love to support the modding crew if possible, I'm just not really sure how I would do that. Is there maybe a patreon account or something for you or guspav or the whole team? Anyways, take it easy man, I don't think anyone is expecting anything right away, I certainly don't at any rate. Spend some time with your family, the mod is a ton of fun as it stands just with the new factions items and magic/faith/necromancy alone.

Zida The Snail said:

Totally understandable, in no way do I expect any snaps of the finger instant changes, I was more just curious about what future versions (as in years from now) of Phantasy were to look like for my favorite class xD. I do love the flame god spec (although I do think its a little faceroll with mounted flame burst spam against infantry based armies) and really appreciate all of the other recent changes for the mod. I don't mean to sound ungrateful and would love to support the modding crew if possible, I'm just not really sure how I would do that. Is there maybe a patreon account or something for you or guspav or the whole team? Anyways, take it easy man, I don't think anyone is expecting anything right away, I certainly don't at any rate. Spend some time with your family, the mod is a ton of fun as it stands just with the new factions items and magic/faith/necromancy alone.

Click to expand...

  I have not heard from Guspav since New Year's, but I miss him.  I've done this alone the last 9 months, probably pushing him away in the process.
One of the reasons I called it a tug of war for rights is that its become a fusion, a symbiosis -- I couldn't have done "it" without him, but the stronger mod is one with two fathers (although I'm more of a mother, but that's a different thread).  Nearly all of the spells, classes, troops, and factions are pure Guspav.  Nearly all of the innermost code in 2018 is purely me.  i replaced everything inside. But the skin was of no importance to me; I know its hard to believe, but artwork has little importance to me. I can't see so well anyway, any more.  I am indifferent to the map, factions, troop gear, or items.  I did rearrange the items so they had properties, which built the dynamic magic resistance you can see only in camp menu: actions: page two: test of gear worn.  Actually every agent has that process applied silently, but its invisible to you.  It just is.  Most of the mod got remade like that -- to be more alive.  But its silent.  Guspav's layer is visible, and I supply the "invisible".

  I don't have Guspav's bank info.  I'm not sure I want it, but I couldn't accept money that should be split with him.  In any case, he's busy with a family now -- and if I put 1000 _ 500 hours in, maybe he put in twice that.  Or maybe "only" 2500.  It's hard to say if its part time hours, how many were spent and if they were "productive" hours.  What I can say is some of the code needed tuning, some needed replacing, and much of it worked as delivered, even if I do think the new engine is technically superior. I am good at focus on detail, one tiny layer at a time, and very bad at building from nothing.  He provided something that worked, and was badly in need of a tune up, and I think we both got something.  If he wants his mod back, its his.  But the unique parts that I wrote, I'll take those with me.  Or stay here -- frankly, if I had to make a new mod I'd waste all summer making a map, some factions, some armor models scavenged, and so on, and that's a summer that could have been put to use making new tricks, new abilities, new ways of looking at the world.  I'm satisfied with the layer he presented.  It could always be better, and it has been worse.  I never did finish his rogues. His Clerics used to crash the game.  He wasn't able to find why.  I did, but you know, I rely more on serendipity than skill.  I'm just darned lucky.  Other than that, I'm blind.  Like most of humanity.  Even Guspav sometimes missed things.  I just pumped more time into it because I've managed to parley life in the third world into something impossible from my native California - and been able to be on this mod 10 hours a day, 5 days a week, all while sometimes answering emergencies for my day job and wondering why they keep my useless buttocks employed. But they told me that too -- its charity. They think they're supporting an artist, an autist, and its like something they're called to do.  I'm their albatross.  But I'm also this mod's patron du jour. 

  There WILL be more changes in the pipeline, sooner or later, so long as I can manage to eat, feed my family, and health and spirit do not collapse -- all of those are fragile.  More so when I feel under pressure or criticism, which I take poorly.  Right now its a quiet time and maybe something exciting is coming.  We'll see.  I didn't want to be the last post again in this thread but you ask a question that deserves a reply.  i'm not the supreme egotist everyone assumes -- I'm the nobody holding the pen of power. I'm alone, except inspiration isn't genius -- its from outside me. That makes me a secretary.  Maybe you're collectively an overmind or feed me subconsciously. I could go with that.  But however it works, it worked.  Mostly.  Sometimes.  It's enough.